TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[No Name]

No offence, but this discussion is a bit pointless if we do not know what material they are importing.

I think we have to keep waiting to find out what is going on.

 

[mTT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1926297383303815683

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1926298142556778911

 

[Fuzuli NL]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1926297383303815683

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1926298142556778911

Thank you!

 

[Yasar_TR]

They aren't, raw material is the ore. What they are probably supplying is much, much more complicated and is a product in itself.

Bro,
In true sense of the word the raw materials would be the “constituents” of a finished article.

If S Koreans provided the silicone and/or boron carbide materials to be sandwiched in Roketsan facilities then they can be called raw materials too. Since these materials may have to be shaped and cut to size and placed around the tank to form a final barrier, they can be classified as raw materials.

Encyclopaedically ; Raw materials are the unprocessed or “minimally processed” substances used as inputs in a production process to create a finished product.
So it is in a way up to the user to name and whether he deems a material as raw or not.

Besides this raw material saga dates back to 2 decades ago, when S Koreans transferred Know-How and some raw materials to put together an armour for the Altay tank.

Since then Roketsan has indigenised the armour technologies and the materials to suit our needs. (S Koreans, in a way, taught us to fish) . Same happened with the YILDIRIM missiles and China. It paved the way to Tayfun and CENK missiles that are now totally indigenous.

 

[TheInsider]

Composite armor consists of several different layers, like Al2O3 (Alumina), B4C (Boron Carbide), SiC (Silicon Carbide, TiB2 (Titanium Diboride), etc. Roketsan probably outsourced either raw materials or tiles for all of the layers at the beginning, and one by one nationally developed armor-grade materials, tiles, and mass production capability. It seems like Roketsan still outsources either tiles or raw material of the SiC layer from the mentioned Korean company.

So when Roketsan says we provide our own armor solution for the Altay, it is not a lie, but it seems they still outsource that specific SiC layer of the complete armor package from Korea.

 

[Saithan]

Let's see what happens. But I would prefer 100% inhouse production within our borders. But maybe we don't enough factory and production facilities for that. Any form of treatment of raw materials renders it treated. Turning scrap iron into ingot is also treatment and not raw material. I agree with Yasar's post. You can'r call everything raw.

 

[TheInsider]

BTW, it doesn't matter how much you pay, no one transfers armor technology. Korean technology transfer angle is bullshit. What they transferred is base technologies that are used for developing your own armor solution.


Developing cutting-edge armor is really difficult. You need many trial-and-error cycles and extreme amounts of testing. Everyone can produce boron carbide, silicon carbide etc, but developing your own formula, recipe, and developing your own production process is difficult. What materials will be used as doping agents, and what will be the amount? How much pressure and temperature will be applied, for how long? What will be the grain size? You play with materials and processes to optimize material specs.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666539524001275

 

[Saithan]

That is also what was said.

 

[Huelague]

I would have commissioned Oyak/MKEK and maybe Tubitak for such project.

 

[Afif]

I would have commissioned Oyak/MKEK and maybe Tubitak for such project.

If only you were the SSB president.

 

[boredaf]

This is what we should be putting on Altay

A 30mm cannon that takes as much space as a 12.7 mm, if we can fuse that with sensors Altay is going to have, it could work really great against drones, with 30mm ATOM munition (assuming Aselsan makes one of course)

CANiK, gücünü Birleşik Krallık’ta sahada gösterdi

Samsun Yurt Savunma (SYS Grup) ekosistemi, tüm ürün portföyü ile Close Combat Symposium (CCS) 2025’e katılıp 30x113 mm orta kalibre

www.savunmatr.com

 

[Khagan1923]

This is what we should be putting on Altay

A 30mm cannon that takes as much space as a 12.7 mm, if we can fuse that with sensors Altay is going to have, it could work really great against drones, with 30mm ATOM munition (assuming Aselsan makes one of course)

CANiK, gücünü Birleşik Krallık’ta sahada gösterdi

Samsun Yurt Savunma (SYS Grup) ekosistemi, tüm ürün portföyü ile Close Combat Symposium (CCS) 2025’e katılıp 30x113 mm orta kalibre

www.savunmatr.com

This has been what I have been saying for years now. Cheapest and easiest solution against drones and can still be used against ground targets as well.

IMO it would also make a good export product for many countries who can not afford the more expensive anti-drone solutions some companies coming up with.

 

[boredaf]

This has been what I have been saying for years now. Cheapest and easiest solution against drones and can still be used against ground targets as well.

IMO it would also make a good export product for many countries who can not afford the more expensive anti-drone solutions some companies coming up with.

It's not just about the cost either, I've read multiple interviews with Ukrainian soldiers/commanders that said Gepard were one of the most effective solutions against drones of all sizes, they fly low and slow (comparatively). APS for ATGMs and this cannon for drones would be great.

 

[Tornadoss]

It's not just about the cost either, I've read multiple interviews with Ukrainian soldiers/commanders that said Gepard were one of the most effective solutions against drones of all sizes, they fly low and slow (comparatively). APS for ATGMs and this cannon for drones would be great.

I guess sensors for the APS can be connected or used for the RCWS or is it too short range?

 

[Kaan Azman]

I recall ASELSAN added new targeting algorithms to SARP family including the baseline one with .50 cal

If Altay+30 mm sounds spicy to Land Forces, .50 cal connected to KALKAN something radar of AKKOR seems reasonable

 

[boredaf]

I recall ASELSAN added new targeting algorithms to SARP family including the baseline one with .50 cal

If Altay+30 mm sounds spicy to Land Forces, .50 cal connected to KALKAN something radar of AKKOR seems reasonable

I don't know about the army, but I don't like the idea of hunting drones with 12.7 mm, or, any other smaller rounds. Algorithm or not, it turns into a spray and pray situation instead of creating a cloud of tungsten to destroy a drone. Just as shotguns have been far more efficient in downing drones than 5.56 or 7.62 rounds.

I guess sensors for the APS can be connected or used for the RCWS or is it too short range?

No idea mate, I can't remember what kind of sensor it has on board. But I think Aselsan should be able to come up with a solution nonetheless.