TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Strong AI]

I am all in for more EF. Imo they are the best 4.5 gen fighter.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Disagree. "Export license" in that sense is given to the companies by German government to allow the export of the aircraft, tech, munitions etc. Not an export license to Turkey. There's nothing to circumvent there, there's no Eurofighter without the work of German companies. No production line can work without work from other countries, no one member of the consortium can just say fuck it and build it themselves, they have to share.

There is fine line here.
export licence vs parallel export licence.

If you listen to the video, he says to overcome outright export licence a parallel export licence will be utilised. There is supposed to be a signing ceremony on 24th between Tusas and Airbus.
According to that video, my understanding is that, Airbus Germany, Airbus Spain, BAE Systems and Leonardo will be manufacturing with TUSAŞ being involved in part assembly lines etc. in Turkey.

 

[Sanchez]

There is fine line here.
export licence vs parallel export licence.

If you listen to the video, he says to overcome outright export licence a parallel export licence will be utilised. There is supposed to be a signing ceremony on 24th between Tusas and Airbus.
According to that video, my understanding is that, Airbus Germany, Airbus Spain, BAE Systems and Leonardo will be manufacturing with TUSAŞ being involved in part assembly lines etc. in Turkey.

But both require Germany to provide the said export licenses for those companies to share it with Turkey. What's the point, what is stopping from the German government from providing the export license for the first one but not the second one?

 

[Yasar_TR]

But both require Germany to provide the said export licenses for those companies to share it with Turkey. What's the point, what is stopping from the German government from providing the export license for the first one but not the second one?

One is licence for direct sale of planes,
The other is co production licence with 3 other members in Turkey.

There must be some legal back door, that would enable to bypass the first export licence situation.

We will find out on 24th if it is true.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947929909726159351

STATEMENT ON THE MEETING OF THE DEFENCE MINISTERS OF THE REPUBLIC OF TÜRKİYE AND THE UNITED KINGDOM

The Defence Ministers of the Republic of Türkiye and United Kingdom welcomed the opportunity to meet at the 17th International Defence Industry Fair in Istanbul today and reaffirmed the strength of the Türkiye-UK partnership. They underscored the importance of the two countries’ longstanding defence cooperation, including collaboration through NATO and growing ties in defence industry and security. Both Ministers committed to deepening this strategic partnership in support of the Alliance’s collective deterrence.

The two nations continue to make excellent progress on the export of Eurofighter Typhoon. Welcoming Türkiye as a Typhoon operator would build on the bonds of friendship developed over many decades between key NATO Allies and would be a significant step towards enhancing Türkiye’s advanced combat air capabilities. This will mark the start of a new chapter in the Türkiye-UK partnership, working together to strengthen capability collaboration and supporting both countries' defence industries through the reciprocal purchase of word-leading equipment.

The Defence Ministers have today jointly signed a Memorandum of Understanding. This document codifies the relationship between the countries, taking them one step closer to a full agreement on Typhoon. Both Ministers welcome signature as a positive step towards bringing Türkiye into the Typhoon club and share a mutual ambition to conclude the necessary arrangements as soon as possible.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947935172831416584

 

[Sanchez]

Great news! But not yet an order.

 

[Ahlatshah]

Great news! But not yet an order.

From this stage, there is no turning back, otherwise noone would do business with them.

Eurofighters are coming

 

[Strong AI]

(Paywall)

Federal government clears way for Eurofighter delivery to Turkey

According to SPIEGEL information, the Federal Security Council has approved a preliminary request from Ankara for 40 Eurofighter fighter jets. They are to be built in the UK with components supplied from Germany.

(S+) Türkei: Deutschland macht Weg für Eurofighter-Lieferung frei

Nach Informationen des SPIEGEL hat der Bundessicherheitsrat eine Voranfrage aus Ankara für 40 Eurofighter-Kampfjets positiv entschieden. Sie sollen in Großbritannien mit Zulieferungen aus Deutschland gebaut werden.

www.spiegel.de

 

[Ripley]

(Paywall)

Federal government clears way for Eurofighter delivery to Turkey

According to SPIEGEL information, the Federal Security Council has approved a preliminary request from Ankara for 40 Eurofighter fighter jets. They are to be built in the UK with components supplied from Germany.

(S+) Türkei: Deutschland macht Weg für Eurofighter-Lieferung frei

Nach Informationen des SPIEGEL hat der Bundessicherheitsrat eine Voranfrage aus Ankara für 40 Eurofighter-Kampfjets positiv entschieden. Sie sollen in Großbritannien mit Zulieferungen aus Deutschland gebaut werden.

www.spiegel.de

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947913422261100897

“Germany gives conditional approval to Turkey's #Eurofighter jet purchase.

According to leaked information from the German magazine Spiegel, the Federal German Security Council officially approved the export license requested by the UK in March 2023.
This has paved the way for the sale of 40 aircraft worth a total of 4.75 billion Euros.
During the decision-making process, the German government also consulted with Greek Prime Minister Mitsotakis, and after the decision, the UK, Turkish, and Greek governments were informed.
Turkey provided assurances during the decision-making process that the aircraft would only be used within the framework of NATO solidarity. [In the Spiegel report, this is interpreted as: Not to be used against any other NATO member].”

So, if this deal goes through with the underlined assurance, TurAF won’t be operating them in West Turkey, Aegean region to be precise?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947939877342851306

“If we must find a positive reading, we can read it as follows:

There are no restrictions on the use of aircraft in Cyprus, Syria, Iraq, etc. The issue in Greece, however, is Germany’s recognition of Greece’s “sovereignty zone.” In other words, our flights over international airspace/waters [* of Aegean region] are perceived by them as “against a NATO country.” Otherwise, it’s not the case that these aircraft are completely banned from the Aegean.”

If true, I’m not happy. if Germans “consulted” the Greek Government and our government gave “assurance“ as we all know that only assurance that would satisfy the Greek government is not flying over supposedly their territory.

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947913422261100897

“Germany gives conditional approval to Turkey's #Eurofighter jet purchase.

According to leaked information from the German magazine Spiegel, the Federal German Security Council officially approved the export license requested by the UK in March 2023.
This has paved the way for the sale of 40 aircraft worth a total of 4.75 billion Euros.
During the decision-making process, the German government also consulted with Greek Prime Minister Mitsotakis, and after the decision, the UK, Turkish, and Greek governments were informed.
Turkey provided assurances during the decision-making process that the aircraft would only be used within the framework of NATO solidarity. [In the Spiegel report, this is interpreted as: Not to be used against any other NATO member].”

So, if this deal goes through with the underlined assurance, TurAF won’t be operating them in West Turkey, Aegean region to be precise?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947939877342851306

“If we must find a positive reading, we can read it as follows:

There are no restrictions on the use of aircraft in Cyprus, Syria, Iraq, etc. The issue in Greece, however, is Germany’s recognition of Greece’s “sovereignty zone.” In other words, our flights over international airspace/waters [* of Aegean region] are perceived by them as “against a NATO country.” Otherwise, it’s not the case that these aircraft are completely banned from the Aegean.”

If true, I’m not happy. if Germans “consulted” the Greek Government and our government gave “assurance“ as we all know that only assurance that would satisfy the Greek government is not flying over supposedly their territory.

We can pinky promise and keep them away until the deliveries are completed, afterwards, they can go fuck themselves. We need them desperately for about a decade at most anyway.

 

[BordoEnes]

Disagree. "Export license" in that sense is given to the companies by German government to allow the export of the aircraft, tech, munitions etc. Not an export license to Turkey. There's nothing to circumvent there, there's no Eurofighter without the work of German companies. No production line can work without work from other countries, no one member of the consortium can just say fuck it and build it themselves, they have to share.

I think we can expect final assembly and some production to be made here if people are speaking to Zentürk of all people so openly. Weapons integration is already given, that's the whole point of the Eurofighter, all members own it equally and can fix it to their needs. Weapons integration will take time, but it will happen. But on spares, Turkey will no doubt will want even parallel lines to be built here.

On subsystems being replaced by Turkish ones, I'm less optimistic, it's not a platform we know much about.

I mean it would also be contradicting the entire reason why the UK was aggresively pushing this deal, it wants their own production line to remain open and not suffer from technological or production attrition until the next 6th gen fighter jets comes to fruition. License production within Turkey is therefore highly unlikely.

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947913422261100897

“Germany gives conditional approval to Turkey's #Eurofighter jet purchase.

According to leaked information from the German magazine Spiegel, the Federal German Security Council officially approved the export license requested by the UK in March 2023.
This has paved the way for the sale of 40 aircraft worth a total of 4.75 billion Euros.
During the decision-making process, the German government also consulted with Greek Prime Minister Mitsotakis, and after the decision, the UK, Turkish, and Greek governments were informed.
Turkey provided assurances during the decision-making process that the aircraft would only be used within the framework of NATO solidarity. [In the Spiegel report, this is interpreted as: Not to be used against any other NATO member].”

So, if this deal goes through with the underlined assurance, TurAF won’t be operating them in West Turkey, Aegean region to be precise?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947939877342851306

“If we must find a positive reading, we can read it as follows:

There are no restrictions on the use of aircraft in Cyprus, Syria, Iraq, etc. The issue in Greece, however, is Germany’s recognition of Greece’s “sovereignty zone.” In other words, our flights over international airspace/waters [* of Aegean region] are perceived by them as “against a NATO country.” Otherwise, it’s not the case that these aircraft are completely banned from the Aegean.”

If true, I’m not happy. if Germans “consulted” the Greek Government and our government gave “assurance“ as we all know that only assurance that would satisfy the Greek government is not flying over supposedly their territory.

Imo that is just politics to shut up the greeks.

 

[TR_123456]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947913422261100897

“Germany gives conditional approval to Turkey's #Eurofighter jet purchase.

According to leaked information from the German magazine Spiegel, the Federal German Security Council officially approved the export license requested by the UK in March 2023.
This has paved the way for the sale of 40 aircraft worth a total of 4.75 billion Euros.
During the decision-making process, the German government also consulted with Greek Prime Minister Mitsotakis, and after the decision, the UK, Turkish, and Greek governments were informed.
Turkey provided assurances during the decision-making process that the aircraft would only be used within the framework of NATO solidarity. [In the Spiegel report, this is interpreted as: Not to be used against any other NATO member].”

So, if this deal goes through with the underlined assurance, TurAF won’t be operating them in West Turkey, Aegean region to be precise?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1947939877342851306

“If we must find a positive reading, we can read it as follows:

There are no restrictions on the use of aircraft in Cyprus, Syria, Iraq, etc. The issue in Greece, however, is Germany’s recognition of Greece’s “sovereignty zone.” In other words, our flights over international airspace/waters [* of Aegean region] are perceived by them as “against a NATO country.” Otherwise, it’s not the case that these aircraft are completely banned from the Aegean.”

If true, I’m not happy. if Germans “consulted” the Greek Government and our government gave “assurance“ as we all know that only assurance that would satisfy the Greek government is not flying over supposedly their territory.

@Strong AI is right,just lipservice nothing else.
Dont worry bout it(wise guys).

 

[Ripley]

We can pinky promise and keep them away until the deliveries are completed, afterwards, they can go fuck themselves. We need them desperately for about a decade at most anyway.

Oh, yes. We definitely need any flying object at this point. No question about it.
Btw, Thanks for putting it in your own elegant way

Imo that is just politics to shut up the greeks.

@Strong AI is right,just lipservice nothing else.
Dont worry bout it(wise guys).

So, all in all, it’s nothing more than Germany paying lip services to Greeks to shoosh ‘em. The Germany who can never have enough of hitting Turkey openly by supporting Greece on E. Med, Aegean Sea, Libya - Turkey memorandum (as officialy expressed by them) as violating Greece’s sovereign rights?
Well, if you guys are satisfied that in reality they are not lip servicing us but Greeks, I’m totally for it

 

[TR_123456]

Oh, yes. We definitely need any flying object at this point. No question about it.
Btw, Thanks for putting it in your own elegant way




So, all in all, it’s nothing more than Germany paying lip services to Greeks to shoosh ‘em. The Germany who can never have enough of hitting Turkey openly by supporting Greece on E. Med, Aegean Sea, Libya - Turkey memorandum (as officialy expressed by them) as violating Greece’s sovereign rights?
Well, if you guys are satisfied that in reality they are not lip servicing us but Greeks, I’m totally for it

You know things have changed right?
Without Türkiye there is no European Block to be taken serious in military matters,this weighs more then siding with the Greeks on Turkish matters.
Dont worry,they have to they must accept it.

 

[Ripley]

You know things have changed right?
Without Türkiye there is no European Block to be taken serious in military matters,this weighs more then siding with the Greeks on Turkish matters.
Dont worry,they have to they must accept it.

I’m totally aware of that.
That’s why Germany - some call it political culture but I call it force of habit - will not, I repeat, will not yield easily to any new European military structure where Turkey will be a part of. They know that they never can design such structure for their f***ing security against Turkey‘s will. A submissive Turkey‘s way more preferable to an unconstrained one.

edit: I remember during fist gulf war, a European Parliament member saying “Europe is, economically a giant, politically a midget and militarily a cockroach“
So far, they haven’t disproved the guy

 

[boredaf]

Btw, Thanks for putting it in your own elegant way

You know me mate, I'm all about elegance me

 

[Ripley]

You know me mate, I'm all about elegance me

Viscount Boredaf, 1st Duke of Defencehub Dukedom