TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[boredaf]

Would love to see firinf from internal bay after these tests are completed

Is there even an internal bay in this prototype?

 

[Shtr]

Kızılelma will have some communication latency of 2+ seconds that creates some disadvantage in dogfights. It has a smaller payload capacity than the F16. Feel free to break down what else you think is a shortcoming.

I usually accept your words as reference Is there a reference about 2 seconds? It is really too much in this era. I was expecting around 100ms round trips.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Kızılelma will only reach its true potential when equipped with two engines such as the AI-322F or the TF-10000. Only then will it become a UCAV that, while not capable of engaging in classic dogfights, can operate as a highly agile scout and wingman within an entire swarm – similar to a pack of wolves.

In the future stealth-versus-stealth airspace, where the effective radar range is only about 40–60 km anyway, such forward platforms are crucial. Systems such as Süper Şimşek and Kızılelma are there to force the enemy to reveal themselves earlier, activate their sensors or betray their position – even if they are shot down in the process. In this scenario, they have served their purpose, because that is exactly what they are designed to do: create pressure, provide information and force the enemy into a defensive posture so that KAAN and other manned platforms can operate from an optimal position for a kill.

 

[Zafer]

I usually accept your words as reference Is there a reference about 2 seconds? It is really too much in this era. I was expecting around 100ms round trips.

It is an average Round Trip Time latency in satellite communications and not specific to Kızılelma. 100ms RTT is for landlines I believe. I am not sure if the Uluğbey satellite constellation at 510 km altitude will have a better latency, and perhaps it will if the 2 second delay is on the 36000 km geostationery orbit satellites.

I checked the Starlink latency numbers and they are at around 50 ms. If Uluğbey is at 50 ms delay then Kızılelma's prize will have to go up quite a bit. By the way you can't take state of the art latency numbers for granted as they will not sell it to anyone to use in the military.

 

[Trakya_forever]

It will work autonomous. Thanks to current technology, it is not so hard for Baykar.

 

[Shtr]

It is an average Round Trip Time latency in satellite communications and not specific to Kızılelma. 100ms RTT is for landlines I believe. I am not sure if the Uluğbey satellite constellation at 510 km altitude will have a better latency, and perhaps it will if the 2 second delay is on the 36000 km geostationery orbit satellites.

I checked the Starlink latency numbers and they are at around 50 ms. If Uluğbey is at 50 ms delay then Kızılelma's prize will have to go up quite a bit. By the way you can't take state of the art latency numbers for granted as they will not sell it to anyone to use in the military.

View attachment 78293

It is actually based on communication system they used as you said.

Bayraktar TB2: LOS link ~20–50 ms, satcom mod ~600+ ms
Starlink based UAVs: 20–60 ms
Iridium Certus: 30–100 ms

If Uluğ Bey will be used in communication as well, it will be great.

 

[Boykaz]

Let’s think simply, friends:
If Kızılelma can detect an F-16 Viper from 150+ km in the air,
and the F-16 Viper can only detect Kızılelma from 50–60 km,
this already gives Kızılelma nearly a 100 km advantage in range.

So even if it’s not fully autonomous, delays in that 100 km window aren’t very critical.

We’ve seen the interface of the MURAD AESA radar on screen — in my opinion, it adds an incredible level of situational awareness.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Murat ikinci Said that Kizilelma will be able to use 300 ER. I’m wondering if he means this version or the future twin engine/20.000 Lbs Engine Version?

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

Does anyone know if we will see some tests on GÖKHAN BVR missile next year?

 

[Agha Sher]

Testing Murad against F-16? Looks like test fire is around the corner.

PT5 build looks quite good and closer to being finalized.

Selçuk Bayraktar (@[email protected])

1.96K Posts, 1.56K Following, 469K Followers · Ben öyle bilirim ki yaşamak, Berrak bir gökte çocuklar aşkına savaşmaktır... What I know is that living means, Fighting under a clear sky for the love of children. #TEKNOFEST Gönüllüsü / Volunteer 🚀

sosyal.teknofest.app

 

[Agha Sher]

Testing Murad against F-16? Looks like test fire is around the corner.

PT5 build looks quite good and closer to being finalized.

Selçuk Bayraktar (@[email protected])

1.96K Posts, 1.56K Following, 469K Followers · Ben öyle bilirim ki yaşamak, Berrak bir gökte çocuklar aşkına savaşmaktır... What I know is that living means, Fighting under a clear sky for the love of children. #TEKNOFEST Gönüllüsü / Volunteer 🚀

sosyal.teknofest.app

Apparently they simulated attacks on the F-16. Successfully tracked, locked, engaged and shut down the F-16 in simulation.

Distance and F-16s attempt to maneuver and avoid engagement is not known yet. Still a big leap forward for KE. Many important milestones are missing but entering service in 2026 seems increasingly likely.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1991404387411853354

 

[MonteCarlo]

This new claims it was from 30 miles. Relatively short distance but still not too bad for a first test. It also says that Kızılelma tracked and performed the simulated fire while performing a formation flight with one f-16. So we could assume they tested iff in some capacity too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1991399554063704539

 

[Samba]

I wonder how much RCS is incresed with open AAM configuration.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Let us hope that an IWB a2a test is not too far away. That is when it becomes a real danger to all 4.5+ gen fighters.
One has to remember that both Gokdogan and KE are still going through their testing processes. There is still some road ahead.
We will also need the TF10000 and operational IWBs before we can take it on in to inventory as fully matured “stealthy” UCAV.

 

[Zafer]

While Kızılelma needs the TF10000 engine to attain its designed capabilities the TF6000 engine only lacks the afterburner power that the TF10000 engine offers. AB is used in rare situations, this means that the TF6000 can still do a job if you do not foresee a high power requirement in a given mission. I can imagine Kızılelma flying with the TF6000 engine which is supposed to be in the preparation for flight state as of now. If the TF6000 engine becomes flyable a good amount of time before the TF10000 engine it maybe worthwhile to make a vesion of the Kızılelma to fly with the lesser engine. The TF6000 can be lighter giving more flight time for the mission. Two versions please.

 

[begturan]

Yes, the TF6000/TF10,000 makes sense for Kızılelma, but if we want to build a true unmanned combat aircraft, I think we'll need two 20,000 lb engines, as 10,000 lb isn't suitable for heavy loads. Do you have any estimates on this?

Baykar Engines has launched a project for a 20,000 lb turbofan engine. In this case, the actual target might be 20,000 lb. The real question is, will a single engine be sufficient, or will two 20,000 lb engines be sufficient?

An unmanned combat aircraft with such engine power could undertake many critical, high-risk missions, ensure the safety of our pilots, and take Türkiye to the top of the air dominance ladder.

 

[Zafer]

Yes, the TF6000/TF10,000 makes sense for Kızılelma, but if we want to build a true unmanned combat aircraft, I think we'll need two 20,000 lb engines, as 10,000 lb isn't suitable for heavy loads. Do you have any estimates on this?

Baykar Engines has launched a project for a 20,000 lb turbofan engine. In this case, the actual target might be 20,000 lb. The real question is, will a single engine be sufficient, or will two 20,000 lb engines be sufficient?

An unmanned combat aircraft with such engine power could undertake many critical, high-risk missions, ensure the safety of our pilots, and take Türkiye to the top of the air dominance ladder.

Once you make everything else on the plane ready to go a new engine can be a new version of the same plane without much development time to spend. If Baykar makes the ideal engine for the plane it can finally be the main configuration. With several engine options it will be possible to deliver different quality Kızılelma versions including possible non stealth and stealth versions.

 

[OPTIMUS]

What has been occupying me for a long time with Baykar regarding engine construction is how they imagine building an engine from scratch without experience and know-how. Also, they have set the measuring plate very high: a jet engine with an afterburner. The whole thing seems very, very questionable to me. What comes to mind: they are up to something we don’t know, or they have acquired quite a bit from the Ukrainians (engineering, technical knowledge, etc.) with money.

A jet engine with an afterburner... requires a hell of a lot. Even upgrading the TF6000 to the TF10000 involves a great deal of knowledge and work. Things are not as simple as in YouTube videos.

 

[Zafer]

Yeah but TEI mentioned several times they are now prioritizing TF10000 over TF6000 because of KE. So it looks like KE will never use TF6000.

Even when it is not a priority if there is a difference of more than a year to service you want the early one to be in service rather than waiting for the better one and it can be a different product too.

 

[Zafer]

What has been occupying me for a long time with Baykar regarding engine construction is how they imagine building an engine from scratch without experience and know-how. Also, they have set the measuring plate very high: a jet engine with an afterburner. The whole thing seems very, very questionable to me. What comes to mind: they are up to something we don’t know, or they have acquired quite a bit from the Ukrainians (engineering, technical knowledge, etc.) with money.

A jet engine with an afterburner... requires a hell of a lot. Even upgrading the TF6000 to the TF10000 involves a great deal of knowledge and work. Things are not as simple as in YouTube videos.

They can poach some good engineers or outsource some of the development and order some parts fom like TEI, why not.