TR Navy Naval Programs

[TheInsider]

I don't want anything lighter than 5000t. The light TF-2000 should be between 5000-6000t closer to the latter. It should not be a heavy frigate; it should be a light destroyer. Parameters like endurance, VLS count should be closer to a destroyer rather than a frigate. After a corvette-sized FAC, another mistake shouldn't be made by building a frigate-sized destroyer.

 

[Huelague]

So my guess would be for the next 10-15 years the navy will introduce/have based on my realistic expectation and news
8 Istif
4 TF2000
4-6 TF2000 Flight 2 (Medium frigate) still rough speculation
4 Modernized Meko 200TN track 2 (barbaros)
8-10 Hisar ADKG configuration still unknown (light/medium/heavy) probably split between ships from just a light opv to a light frigate
6-10 TTHB Numbers still uncertain
1-2 LHD still some uncertainty if we'll get a second LHD
1 Mügem
(2 LPD) need is there but still a rough guess(my wish)
6 Reis
6 Milden Maybe more but 6 is secure
1 Nükden maybe towards the end of 2038
plus a dozen other support vessels from small to large

@Anmdt
How many TF-2000 do we need, to cover our LHDs, LPDs and our whole coasts?

 

[TheInsider]

@Anmdt
How many TF-2000 do we need, to cover our LHDs, LPDs and our whole coasts?

At least 8. Don't forget there will also be a MUGEM and maybe a drone mothership. I'm ok with 4 TF2000+4 light TF-2000.

 

[Quasar]

I think BARBAROS-Class Frigates Mid-Life Upgrade is almost as important as İSTİF class.... until we come up with a quad packed SAM, I would not expect a light TF 2000.... For me a light TF 2000 is what ISTİF should have been at first place .... but circumstances.... we will have 8 İSTİF class as it is.

-our designs, our components, our ship yards so everything is possible as long as there is a budget and a need...

 

[boredaf]

@Anmdt
How many TF-2000 do we need, to cover our LHDs, LPDs and our whole coasts?

Yanks have 2 anti-air destroyers in their carrier group, Royal Navy has 1, from a little bit of googling it looks like French has 1 or 2 and Chinese plan to have 2. However, I should point out that Royal Navy usually have ships from other countries accompany their carriers almost all the time they are deployed. Since we can't truly rely on others to help us, we need at least 2 destroyers per carrier (be it a drone carrier or a proper one), imo. On top of that, we need 1 or 2 frigates for anti-submarine duties to accompany them.

 

[zio]

I think BARBAROS-Class Frigates Mid-Life Upgrade is almost as important as İSTİF class.... until we come up with a quad packed SAM, I would not expect a light TF 2000.... For me a light TF 2000 is what ISTİF should have been at first place .... but circumstances.... we will have 8 İSTİF class as it is.

-our designs, our components, our ship yards so everything is possible as long as there is a budget and a need...

Barbaros YÖM ships have pesa radar makes it vulnurable to ECM attacks,two short range aesa radar cannot close the gap,also have less SSMissiles some of them outdated harpoon type,two ship have 8 cell,no ESSM blk 2 missiles,extra 20mm CIWS does notmake more sense,and less ECM antennas,so istif class is better than these ships.

 

[uçuyorum]

Barbaros YÖM ships have pesa radar makes it vulnurable to ECM attacks,two short range aesa radar cannot close the gap,also have less SSMissiles some of them outdated harpoon type,two ship have 8 cell,no ESSM blk 2 missiles,extra 20mm CIWS does notmake more sense,and less ECM antennas,so istif class is better than these ships.

Few corrections. That pesa radar is also multi transmit receive so it's a relatively modern pesa. The two x bands are there to close that gap literally. The modernization adds extra atmaca launchers 12 or 16 total. Essm block 2 have been delivered quietly recently.

 

[Anmdt]

@Anmdt
How many TF-2000 do we need, to cover our LHDs, LPDs and our whole coasts?

Considering overhaul & maintenance schedules, overseas deployments (Libya, Somalia, Qatar) there will be minimum of 4 TF-2000, 4 TF2000+, 6-8 TF2000 light. I-Class or ADKGs can't keep up with AC flotilla duties. There will be at least 2 TF-2000 light, 1 TF2000+ and 1 TF2000 per flotilla.

 

[Huelague]

anti-air destroyers

Lets hope not.

 

[Pilatino]

Lets hope not.

Guys, if we’re talking about Turkey’s next-generation surface combatants, there’s one non-negotiable requirement: ASW supremacy. The TF-2000-class will be a flagship air-defense platform, but the real gap in our fleet won't be missiles (Thanks to TF2000) but submarine detection and neutralization. To me, the silent underwater threat is the only hope for our adversaries in East Med. soooooooo...


5-6k ton TF‑ASW “Ghosthunter / Ghostbuster ” destroyer might bring to the table:

• Stealthy propulsion: CODLAG/CODLOG with low-RPM electric drive for <110 dB acoustic signature.
• Multi-layer sonar suite: LF passive/active towed array + VDS sonar capable of thermocline penetration, plus variable-depth sonar for layered detection.
• Full ASW helicopter integration: Helicopters are force multipliers; their synergy with the ship’s sensors is essential. (From our beloved TUSAŞ hopefully)
• Noise reduction measures: Raft-mounted machinery, dual-layer vibration isolation, and optional bubble curtain (Prairie-Masker) systems.
• Softkill & hardkill torpedo defenses and networked ADVENT ASW tactical data links for real-time engagement.
• Low RCS/SQR design: Because detection is half the battle; staying hidden is the other half.

Silent + perceptive = undersea dominance. This makes us neutralize threats under the surface before they even know we’re there... First to hear, first to strike BAM!


P.S. Worth emphasizing: the ship’s ASW helicopters are not an afterthought. They are force multipliers. Fully integrated with the ship’s sonar, towed-array, and VDS systems, these helos extend detection ranges, track submarines in layered environments, and deploy torpedoes or countermeasures faster than any shipboard system alone. In modern ASW warfare, a destroyer without such synergy is only half a hunter and we need it soooooo much tbh. That's why I dedicated a special place for them here.

 

[Anmdt]

• Noise reduction measures: Raft-mounted machinery, dual-layer vibration isolation, and optional bubble curtain (Prairie-Masker) systems.
• Softkill & hardkill torpedo defenses and networked ADVENT ASW tactical data links for real-time engagement.
• Low RCS/SQR design: Because detection is half the battle; staying hidden is the other half.

These are baseline applications valid since Ada-Class, that is also present in TF-2000. Praire Masker is not in use, anymore.

• Multi-layer sonar suite: LF passive/active towed array + VDS sonar capable of thermocline penetration, plus variable-depth sonar for layered detection.
• Full ASW helicopter integration: Helicopters are force multipliers; their synergy with the ship’s sensors is essential. (From our beloved TUSAŞ hopefully)

TF-2000 has BOSS, so does the TF-2000 Light. Check-out multi-static sensor suit concept by Aselsan, that also involves dipping sonar.

Stealthy propulsion: CODLAG/CODLOG with low-RPM electric drive for <110 dB acoustic signature.

Might be introduced with TF-2000 Light since it is more spacious, having less VLS. It will be diesel only, thus likely seeing something as CODOE.

 

[Saithan]

The cost of maintaining such a fleet sounds expensive.

But if all TF2000 are equivalent to heavy class Frigates, would it still be costly to maintain ?

 

[Sanchez]

The cost of maintaining such a fleet sounds expensive.

That's another, larger point of contention. All those plans to enlarge and modernize all forces with more expensive, larger and more modern platforms, but defence spending still not hitting even 3%. We can only hope that the people who ask for, design and build these things also have an idea of budgets required to maintain them. Navy chief looks happy enough.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

@Anmdt
How many TF-2000 do we need, to cover our LHDs, LPDs and our whole coasts?

İ think we need at least 9 Tf 2000 destroyers
-3 should stay in mediterrian sea from spain to around İtaly ,since alot of our opponents are in mediterrian like france ,grece ,israel
-3 should protect MUGEM
-1 For Anadolu
and 2 will be at ports or out of active because of periodik repairs and upgrades not all country warships are 24/7 active for war .
İt will be BİG MİSTAKE if we go for smaller Tf 2000 even İtaly has 8000+ tons OPV , Deatroyers .
İ dont get it why many of you wants smaller warships !
But we need 8x Enlarged 4000 ton İstanbul frigate with 32 VLS 130 meter that will protect closser area around Kibris , black sea , and sea of islands .

 

[Pokemonte13]

İ think we need at least 9 Tf 2000 destroyers
-3 should stay in mediterrian sea from spain to around İtaly ,since alot of our opponents are in mediterrian like france ,grece ,israel
-3 should protect MUGEM
-1 For Anadolu
and 2 will be at ports or out of active because of periodik repairs and upgrades not all country warships are 24/7 active for war .
İt will be BİG MİSTAKE if we go for smaller Tf 2000 even İtaly has 8000+ tons OPV , Deatroyers .
İ dont get it why many of you wants smaller warships !
But we need 8x Enlarged 4000 ton İstanbul frigate with 32 VLS 130 meter that will protect closser area around Kibris , black sea , and sea of islands .

It’s about realistic views. Of course we all wish for 8 tf2000 hell why not 12 plus another 8 asfat3600 how about we ad a couple more heavily armed hisar Opv. The issue is we don’t have enough money for everything and need to make the most out of our money. Tf2000 are creme de la creme the best of the best but you don’t always need the best but something that will get the job done. If 4 TF2000 equals the money of 6-8 mediocre ships then I would choose 4 tf2000 and 6 mediocre ships because they increase the reach of our navy.

 

[Strong AI]

That's another, larger point of contention. All those plans to enlarge and modernize all forces with more expensive, larger and more modern platforms, but defence spending still not hitting even 3%. We can only hope that the people who ask for, design and build these things also have an idea of budgets required to maintain them. Navy chief looks happy enough.

In line with NATO’s minimum defense-spending target of 2 percent, Türkiye fulfilled its commitment in this area at a level of 2.13 percent in 2024. Our country has also risen from 8th to 7th place in contributions to the NATO Military Budget. We assess that, by gradually increasing the current level, we will reach the Alliance’s planned target of 5 percent by 2035.

https://www.msb.gov.tr/SlaytHaber/b171f22587174c78b602e7430f140003

 

[Saithan]

Sustainability is still key, and being ruthless enough to have deterrent is crucial.

But I think it's a mistake to build too much and too fast too. Especially considering how battlefields are changing with drones and all that. Having drone hunters has become a must.

So the AD vessels, equipment and such are important, but we also need something cost effective.

 

[Pokemonte13]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1995380252382478464

Sale of Akhisar is getting closer. The Romanian budget is 233 million dollars for the purchase and 42 million dollars for modifications.
My guess is the cost for our navy is less than 200 million dollars per ship in this current configuration even if it gets armed to the teeth(midlas ,cenk300…) the overall cost should be around 300 million dollars

 

[uçuyorum]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1995380252382478464

Sale of Akhisar is getting closer. The Romanian budget is 233 million dollars for the purchase and 42 million dollars for modifications.
My guess is the cost for our navy is less than 200 million dollars per ship in this current configuration even if it gets armed to the teeth(midlas ,cenk300…) the overall cost should be around 300 million dollars

Our need for ships is critical but sale of these are more strategic then our need for such light ships honestly, vs istif. I get people who criticize attempted sale of istif and agree, but disagree with criticism of hisar sale

 

[boredaf]

But I think it's a mistake to build too much and too fast too.

Mistake is building an aircraft carrier.

We don't have unimpeded access to oceans. We don't have overseas (I'm talking about on the other side of the planet) territories we need to protect. We don't have enemies far away enough that we would need an aircraft carrier to strike. We don't have a 5th gen naval jet to put on the carrier. We don't have marine helicopters either. We don't have enough surface combatants to form a carrier group without leaving ourselves short on our seas. We don't have a nuclear submarine to include in a carrier group.

Cost of a carrier from design to finish is several billions of dollars. Cost of all the necessary surface ships (air defence destroyers and potentially frigates specialised in anti-submarine warfare and supply/logistics ships to accompany them) would also cost a few billions pretty easily. Then, there is the cost of developing necessary tech for a nuclear submarine, then design and produce it, which would also cost several billion dollars.

And, let's not forget the cost of developing and producing a naval Kaan, or, having a trainer turned light attack fighter as naval jet with its low payload making its sorties less efficient and since its a trainer, it isn't stealth by design which makes it a joke in an era where countries are fielding more and more 5th gen aircraft, developing 6th gen, all the while radars and air defence keep improving as well.

Instead of building Trakya, specifically designed to be used with KE and Anka-3, we are going for an aircraft carrier because "we have a carrier we are a big boy now!!!". We could build Trakya, use it as a strike vessel while using Anadolu with TB3 for reconnaissance and it would still cost less than the carrier with all the necessary ships and aircraft.