• Forum restore complete (see latest announcement thread)

TR Navy Naval Programs

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,804
Solutions
2
Reactions
148 26,907
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
  • Noise reduction measures: Raft-mounted machinery, dual-layer vibration isolation, and optional bubble curtain (Prairie-Masker) systems.
  • Softkill & hardkill torpedo defenses and networked ADVENT ASW tactical data links for real-time engagement.
  • Low RCS/SQR design: Because detection is half the battle; staying hidden is the other half.
These are baseline applications valid since Ada-Class, that is also present in TF-2000. Praire Masker is not in use, anymore.
  • Multi-layer sonar suite: LF passive/active towed array + VDS sonar capable of thermocline penetration, plus variable-depth sonar for layered detection.
  • Full ASW helicopter integration: Helicopters are force multipliers; their synergy with the ship’s sensors is essential. (From our beloved TUSAŞ hopefully)
TF-2000 has BOSS, so does the TF-2000 Light. Check-out multi-static sensor suit concept by Aselsan, that also involves dipping sonar.

Stealthy propulsion: CODLAG/CODLOG with low-RPM electric drive for <110 dB acoustic signature.
Might be introduced with TF-2000 Light since it is more spacious, having less VLS. It will be diesel only, thus likely seeing something as CODOE.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Moderator
Denmark Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
9,843
Reactions
65 21,983
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
The cost of maintaining such a fleet sounds expensive.

But if all TF2000 are equivalent to heavy class Frigates, would it still be costly to maintain ?
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
4,181
Reactions
125 19,013
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The cost of maintaining such a fleet sounds expensive.
That's another, larger point of contention. All those plans to enlarge and modernize all forces with more expensive, larger and more modern platforms, but defence spending still not hitting even 3%. We can only hope that the people who ask for, design and build these things also have an idea of budgets required to maintain them. Navy chief looks happy enough.
 

BalkanTurk90

Contributor
Messages
921
Reactions
5 1,355
Nation of residence
Albania
Nation of origin
Turkey
@Anmdt
How many TF-2000 do we need, to cover our LHDs, LPDs and our whole coasts?
İ think we need at least 9 Tf 2000 destroyers
-3 should stay in mediterrian sea from spain to around İtaly ,since alot of our opponents are in mediterrian like france ,grece ,israel
-3 should protect MUGEM
-1 For Anadolu
and 2 will be at ports or out of active because of periodik repairs and upgrades not all country warships are 24/7 active for war .
İt will be BİG MİSTAKE if we go for smaller Tf 2000 even İtaly has 8000+ tons OPV , Deatroyers .
İ dont get it why many of you wants smaller warships !
But we need 8x Enlarged 4000 ton İstanbul frigate with 32 VLS 130 meter that will protect closser area around Kibris , black sea , and sea of islands .
 

Pokemonte13

Contributor
Messages
1,163
Reactions
11 2,107
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
İ think we need at least 9 Tf 2000 destroyers
-3 should stay in mediterrian sea from spain to around İtaly ,since alot of our opponents are in mediterrian like france ,grece ,israel
-3 should protect MUGEM
-1 For Anadolu
and 2 will be at ports or out of active because of periodik repairs and upgrades not all country warships are 24/7 active for war .
İt will be BİG MİSTAKE if we go for smaller Tf 2000 even İtaly has 8000+ tons OPV , Deatroyers .
İ dont get it why many of you wants smaller warships !
But we need 8x Enlarged 4000 ton İstanbul frigate with 32 VLS 130 meter that will protect closser area around Kibris , black sea , and sea of islands .
It’s about realistic views. Of course we all wish for 8 tf2000 hell why not 12 plus another 8 asfat3600 how about we ad a couple more heavily armed hisar Opv. The issue is we don’t have enough money for everything and need to make the most out of our money. Tf2000 are creme de la creme the best of the best but you don’t always need the best but something that will get the job done. If 4 TF2000 equals the money of 6-8 mediocre ships then I would choose 4 tf2000 and 6 mediocre ships because they increase the reach of our navy.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Moderator
Denmark Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
9,843
Reactions
65 21,983
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
Sustainability is still key, and being ruthless enough to have deterrent is crucial.

But I think it's a mistake to build too much and too fast too. Especially considering how battlefields are changing with drones and all that. Having drone hunters has become a must.

So the AD vessels, equipment and such are important, but we also need something cost effective.
 

Pokemonte13

Contributor
Messages
1,163
Reactions
11 2,107
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Sale of Akhisar is getting closer. The Romanian budget is 233 million dollars for the purchase and 42 million dollars for modifications.
My guess is the cost for our navy is less than 200 million dollars per ship in this current configuration even if it gets armed to the teeth(midlas ,cenk300…) the overall cost should be around 300 million dollars
 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
1,224
Reactions
15 1,988
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Sale of Akhisar is getting closer. The Romanian budget is 233 million dollars for the purchase and 42 million dollars for modifications.
My guess is the cost for our navy is less than 200 million dollars per ship in this current configuration even if it gets armed to the teeth(midlas ,cenk300…) the overall cost should be around 300 million dollars
Our need for ships is critical but sale of these are more strategic then our need for such light ships honestly, vs istif. I get people who criticize attempted sale of istif and agree, but disagree with criticism of hisar sale
 

boredaf

Experienced member
Messages
2,265
Solutions
1
Reactions
42 6,641
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
But I think it's a mistake to build too much and too fast too.
Mistake is building an aircraft carrier.

We don't have unimpeded access to oceans. We don't have overseas (I'm talking about on the other side of the planet) territories we need to protect. We don't have enemies far away enough that we would need an aircraft carrier to strike. We don't have a 5th gen naval jet to put on the carrier. We don't have marine helicopters either. We don't have enough surface combatants to form a carrier group without leaving ourselves short on our seas. We don't have a nuclear submarine to include in a carrier group.

Cost of a carrier from design to finish is several billions of dollars. Cost of all the necessary surface ships (air defence destroyers and potentially frigates specialised in anti-submarine warfare and supply/logistics ships to accompany them) would also cost a few billions pretty easily. Then, there is the cost of developing necessary tech for a nuclear submarine, then design and produce it, which would also cost several billion dollars.

And, let's not forget the cost of developing and producing a naval Kaan, or, having a trainer turned light attack fighter as naval jet with its low payload making its sorties less efficient and since its a trainer, it isn't stealth by design which makes it a joke in an era where countries are fielding more and more 5th gen aircraft, developing 6th gen, all the while radars and air defence keep improving as well.

Instead of building Trakya, specifically designed to be used with KE and Anka-3, we are going for an aircraft carrier because "we have a carrier we are a big boy now!!!". We could build Trakya, use it as a strike vessel while using Anadolu with TB3 for reconnaissance and it would still cost less than the carrier with all the necessary ships and aircraft.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
4,181
Reactions
125 19,013
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
In line with NATO’s minimum defense-spending target of 2 percent, Türkiye fulfilled its commitment in this area at a level of 2.13 percent in 2024. Our country has also risen from 8th to 7th place in contributions to the NATO Military Budget. We assess that, by gradually increasing the current level, we will reach the Alliance’s planned target of 5 percent by 2035.

5% by 2035 is simply not good enough. We're not getting a carrier we can deploy or 8 AD destroyers with 5% by 2035.

Re NATO military spending, Turkey has a special place and is out of sight of Trump; because unlike other members it's mostly self capable and has a large army, even though it's ancient in most places.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
5,650
Reactions
15 8,712
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
5% by 2035 is simply not good enough. We're not getting a carrier we can deploy or 8 AD destroyers with 5% by 2035.

Re NATO military spending, Turkey has a special place and is out of sight of Trump; because unlike other members it's mostly self capable and has a large army, even though it's ancient in most places.
We have hit 1.5 trillion dollar GDP this year and 5% is $75bn, aggregate this over 10 years and you get $654bn, sounds big enough, actual math below.

GDP growth @ 3.5%​
@ %8,90​
2025
1.500.000.000.000 $
%2,13
2026​
1.552.500.000.000 $​
%2,32​
36.011.324.250 $​
2027​
1.606.837.500.000 $​
%2,53​
40.588.903.732 $​
2028​
1.663.076.812.500 $​
%2,75​
45.748.362.230 $​
2029​
1.721.284.500.938 $​
%3,00​
51.563.665.295 $​
2030​
1.781.529.458.470 $​
%3,26​
58.118.180.609 $​
2031​
1.843.882.989.517 $​
%3,55​
65.505.873.137 $​
2032​
1.908.418.894.150 $​
%3,87​
73.832.652.201 $​
2033​
1.975.213.555.445 $​
%4,21​
83.217.889.785 $​
2034​
2.044.346.029.886 $​
%4,59​
93.796.131.845 $​
2035​
2.115.898.140.932 $​
%5,00​
105.719.027.145 $​
654.102.010.228 $​
 
Last edited:

Pokemonte13

Contributor
Messages
1,163
Reactions
11 2,107
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
5% by 2035 is simply not good enough. We're not getting a carrier we can deploy or 8 AD destroyers with 5% by 2035.

Re NATO military spending, Turkey has a special place and is out of sight of Trump; because unlike other members it's mostly self capable and has a large army, even though it's ancient in most places.
Firstly is it 5% or 3.5% defence expenditure plus 1.5% for defence relevant projects.
Secondly 1$ dollar spend by us equals 3 spend by other nato members since our defence industry is really efficient and we don't have to pay those extortion prices anymore since most is done in house. But the budget will never be enough for us thats why we need cost effective solutions or we just do it like the europeans and americans by going in to debt but that is not a good solution.
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,894
Solutions
1
Reactions
51 17,040
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The Turkish state plans to spend on average 10 billion $ every year over the next 10 years, totaling $ 100 billion, on new acquisitions. It is on avarage per year in a span of 10 years, so it doesn't mean we will spend 10 billion next year on new acquistions.

Budget will probably be something like that when we distribute it to 10 years.
5-6-7-8-9-10-12-13-15-15

And obviously, this won't be the defense budget; this is the budget of procurement alone.
 

mehmed beg

Contributor
Messages
716
Reactions
3 831
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
I am not so sure about the procurement of big vessels for TN. I'm the world where anyone can use the drones and in few years some sort of supersonic missiles, big ships will be big target. I remember that in Red Sea operation, French ships needed to use 12,7 machine guns.
I think that different concepts need to invented or the current ones, should be brought to the highest level. Both Ideas are very very expensive and labour intensive.
I understand that the smaller ships don't have very good sea keeping characters but they are small and fast. What else is to do there????
 

BalkanTurk90

Contributor
Messages
921
Reactions
5 1,355
Nation of residence
Albania
Nation of origin
Turkey
First two Hisar has no commonality with the remainder of 8, subsystems and design differs. This is why i am pro-sale of these two hulls.
So this one is new Hisar class OPV ? İt looks like smaller version of istanbul class with in front VLS .
desan-hisar-karakol.jpg
 

Pokemonte13

Contributor
Messages
1,163
Reactions
11 2,107
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Think of TF-2000 as a three-block program. Currently we are preparing for construction of 4 that will make the middle-tier AAW Destroyer functions. It will have a block with less weapon, sensors and multi-mission capabilities (through a multi-mission bay) version and an enlarged higher block version with more sensors, and better EW capability.
Looks like you were right.
Guess overall structure will remain the same with some changes to the mast and midsection instead of vls for the new bay
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom