TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Quasar]

''drone>sat>controls>human>control>sat>drone''

I guess we should not just focus on signal delays but also the fact that KIZILELMA is a fast and maneuvering object. Therefore, not just delay but satcom signal interruptions is almost inevitable.... i.e there can/will be possibly delayed intervals of communication not a constant one.

Human role is confined to pre authorizations and updating mission parameters not a constant control... Rest will be/ should be done by KIZILELMA autonomously.

in the case of manned unmanned teaming it may potenially require more data exchange

 

[Anmdt]

''drone>sat>controls>human>control>sat>drone''

I guess we should not just focus on signal delays but also the fact that KIZILELMA is a fast and maneuvering object. Therefore, not just delay but satcom signal interruptions is almost inevitable.... i.e there can/will be possibly delayed intervals of communication not a constant one.

Human role is confined to pre authorizations and updating mission parameters not a constant control... Rest will be/ should be done by KIZILELMA autonomously.

in the case of manned unmanned teaming it may potenially require more data exchange

We should also keep in mind that information doesn't just bounce off the relay points. So it is;
drone - data processing - encryption - sat - data processing - ground - decryption - data processing & visualization - operator - interface and ditto to drone.
This is as whole more than 'just few seconds' of delay. Not a big deal for BVR missions with mission data sets, imo.

 

[uçuyorum]

We should also keep in mind that information doesn't just bounce off the relay points. So it is;
drone - data processing - encryption - sat - data processing - ground - decryption - data processing & visualization - operator - interface and ditto to drone.
This is as whole more than 'just few seconds' of delay. Not a big deal for BVR missions with mission data sets, imo.

Line of sight should be more feasible

 

[Quasar]

Line of sight should be more feasible

in the case of manned unmanned teaming as you stated data links operates within the line-of-sight....therefore, in fact there is no fixed value for the range of data link.... Altitude, Terrain and Atmosphere are also effecting factors.

More importantly, if KIZILELMA and ANKA 3.... KAAN are low observable and we want to focus on it further our data link should evolve accordingly as well i.e as a part of low observablty concept we may need to use low probability of intercept (LPI) datalinks eventually.

as we all know, funy thing is until recently F35 and F 22 could not share data with each other but only with their kinds. İt was a huge handicap.

Therefore, commonality and applicability of (LPI) datalinks to your assets is vital as well.

perfect is the enemy of good... may be I have very high expectations

 

[Oublious]

Turkish Drone Makes History with First BVR Air to Air Missile Shot​

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Please, I want a dual engine version with 2x AI 322F or 2x TF 10000. It must be able to keep up with TAI KAAN and Eurofighter/F-16 Özgür II in a joint battle against the enemy.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Turkey’s Fighter-Like Kizilelma Drone Shot Down Aerial Target With Radar-Guided Missile

The Kizilelma appears to be the first advanced drone to launch a radar-guided air-to-air missile, but details of how the engagement took place are scarce. The Kizilelma appears to be the first UCAV to launch a radar-guided air-to-air missile, but details of how the engagement took place are scarce.

www.twz.com

 

[Quasar]

initial demand can be satisfied with TF 10000.

BAYKAR can provide budget to TEI and sign a contract to develop a new engine for future models of KIZILELMA (which can be used in other platforms and which can also appeal to international interest as well) and even may get some work share in engine development and production insted of working with Ukrainians to establish an infrastruce for engine production.....

or we can chiose to believe that TF 6000 TF 10000 and TF 35000 are decided faith for us by God and We Turks will not develop another Turbo fan engine till the judgment day since they are heavenly perfect for all our future needs and all future platforms till the end of time.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Russia Mounts Soviet-Era R-60 Missiles on Geran-2 UAVs | TURDEF

Footage from a Ukrainian interceptor UAV and the wreckage shows that Russia has started integrating the R-60 air-to-air missiles on its Geran-2 kamikaze UAVs.

turdef.com

If this even manages to acquire and shoot down a helicopter or crop duster, I will start making a call for SÜPER ŞİMŞEK with a pair of SUNGUR missiles

 

[Nutuk]

or we can chiose to believe that TF 6000 TF 10000 and TF 35000 are decided faith for us by God and We Turks will not develop another Turbo fan engine till the judgment day since they are heavenly perfect for all our future needs and all future platforms till the end of time.

Yes, matter of fact we do choose that. We did choose the same for our microjet engines of Kale, which are now one of the best in the market.

Why this ezik insecurity bro?

 

[Quasar]

Yes, matter of fact we do choose that. We did choose the same for our microjet engines of Kale, which are now one of the best in the market.

Why this ezik insecurity bro?

Really never thought my words could be interpereted in this way ... Bro quite the opposite .... it is sarcasm ....what I am saying is logic dictates that we may/will have a turbo fan engine which will fill the gap between TF 6000/ TF 10000 and TF 35000....and there will be others.... it is an almost natural process.... i.e TF 6000/ TF 10000 and TF 35000 are not the end of the story.

They are the solutions for our immediate needs... as new needs appear, there will be new solutions...who knows even some sooner than expected

in a way, In principle Kale engine(S) stated by you is the reflection of the same natural process.

otherwise we would be still using or try to use BMW jet engine 003 for everthing in the Air. (sarcasm)

As I wrote we can chiose to believe that TF 6000/ TF 10000 and TF 35000 are the end of the story.... yet this would not be a wise choise but an absurd one... this is what I was trying to say Bro

​

 

[boredaf]

Russia Mounts Soviet-Era R-60 Missiles on Geran-2 UAVs | TURDEF

Footage from a Ukrainian interceptor UAV and the wreckage shows that Russia has started integrating the R-60 air-to-air missiles on its Geran-2 kamikaze UAVs.

turdef.com

If this even manages to acquire and shoot down a helicopter or crop duster, I will start making a call for SÜPER ŞİMŞEK with a pair of SUNGUR missiles

We should adapt Titra's Alpin with Sungur pod (with all the necessary sensors etc) but also with Umtas or Omtas and some anti-personnel munition. That would give us a platform that could hunt armour or aerial vehicles within 200 km and engage them from kms away, without needing to go right on top of them, most likely before it is even spotted.

Or, at least upgrade Dumrul to have about 20 kg payload so that it can be used with a single Sungur or Karaok.

 

[Pilatino]

Russia Mounts Soviet-Era R-60 Missiles on Geran-2 UAVs | TURDEF

Footage from a Ukrainian interceptor UAV and the wreckage shows that Russia has started integrating the R-60 air-to-air missiles on its Geran-2 kamikaze UAVs.

turdef.com

If this even manages to acquire and shoot down a helicopter or crop duster, I will start making a call for SÜPER ŞİMŞEK with a pair of SUNGUR missiles

When we talk about Süper Şimşek, it becomes obvious that Türkiye still has a major and urgent need for a true "Loyal Wingman" platform. Maybe it will be called Anka-4, maybe something else, but the requirement is crystal clear.


Kızılelma, as impressive and capable as it is, is not the right match for this role. It will carry payloads that are simply too valuable to say, “I’ll send it, and if it doesn’t return, that’s fine.” This is even more true for the planned twin‑engine variant, which will be an even higher‑value asset.


Given this reality, Türkiye still needs a platform that is highly expendable, preferably with modular payload bays like the U.S. “Gambit” system. Something you can risk aggressively, adapt to mission needs, and deploy in batches without hesitation.


In terms of size and capability, from smallest to largest:


Süper Şimşek:

• A compact, expendable, high‑speed drone designed for decoy, attritable strike, and saturation missions.
• Ideal for confusing enemy sensors, absorbing enemy fire, or conducting limited strikes at very low cost.
• Not a full Loyal Wingman, but a “consumable” tactical asset.

Anka‑4:

• A heavier, stealth‑leaning UCAV concept that could evolve into a proper Loyal Wingman.
• More range, more endurance, and the potential for modular payloads (sensors, EW, small A2A missiles). (Similar to the "Gambit" named system in modularity)
• Risk‑tolerant enough to accompany manned jets on dangerous missions, but still affordable compared to high-end systems.

Kızılelma‑C (twin‑engine):

• A high‑end, high‑value unmanned fighter with major payload, speed, and endurance increases.
• Not expendable at all; closer to a strategic asset than a tactical attritable drone.
• Best suited for deep‑strike, advanced air combat roles, and pairing with 5th/6th‑gen fighters rather than “throwaway” tasks.

 

[TR_123456]

When we talk about Süper Şimşek, it becomes obvious that Türkiye still has a major and urgent need for a true "Loyal Wingman" platform. Maybe it will be called Anka-4, maybe something else, but the requirement is crystal clear.


Kızılelma, as impressive and capable as it is, is not the right match for this role. It will carry payloads that are simply too valuable to say, “I’ll send it, and if it doesn’t return, that’s fine.” This is even more true for the planned twin‑engine variant, which will be an even higher‑value asset.


Given this reality, Türkiye still needs a platform that is highly expendable, preferably with modular payload bays like the U.S. “Gambit” system. Something you can risk aggressively, adapt to mission needs, and deploy in batches without hesitation.


In terms of size and capability, from smallest to largest:


Süper Şimşek:

• A compact, expendable, high‑speed drone designed for decoy, attritable strike, and saturation missions.
• Ideal for confusing enemy sensors, absorbing enemy fire, or conducting limited strikes at very low cost.
• Not a full Loyal Wingman, but a “consumable” tactical asset.

Anka‑4:

• A heavier, stealth‑leaning UCAV concept that could evolve into a proper Loyal Wingman.
• More range, more endurance, and the potential for modular payloads (sensors, EW, small A2A missiles). (Similar to the "Gambit" named system in modularity)
• Risk‑tolerant enough to accompany manned jets on dangerous missions, but still affordable compared to high-end systems.

Kızılelma‑C (twin‑engine):

• A high‑end, high‑value unmanned fighter with major payload, speed, and endurance increases.
• Not expendable at all; closer to a strategic asset than a tactical attritable drone.
• Best suited for deep‑strike, advanced air combat roles, and pairing with 5th/6th‑gen fighters rather than “throwaway” tasks.

So,you think Anka-4 will be less then Kizilelma?
Anka-4 will be a big real stealth next gen drone able to fire Hypersonic missiles on solo missions.
Kizilelma cant,its a cheap solution taking over some of the roles of F-16 and KAAN.
Do some research.
Not even comparable.

 

[Pilatino]

So,you think Anka-4 will be less then Kizilelma?
Anka-4 will be a big real stealth next gen drone able to fire Hypersonic missiles on solo missions.
Kizilelma cant,its a cheap solution taking over some of the roles of F-16 and KAAN.
Do some research.
Not even comparable.

It doesn't look so cheap to me after all the planned systems on it. However I HOPE anka 4 can be a much more better and stealthier system than KIZILELMA too.

My main point is: WE NEED A "LOYAL WINGMAN" like system between Süper Şimşek and Kızılelma. The rest is unimportant tbh.


My honest expectation at the very beggining was: Kızılelma as loyal wingman (cheaper), Anka 4 as much stealthier and capable system than Kızılelma C and Süper Şimşek but... Kızılelma put it's goals to a higher place which crossed the TUSAŞ's Anka 4 plan as they hinted in their famous roadmap picture. I still prefer an ANKA4 with much better capabilities than Kızılelma. (even if it looks like 2 different projects for the same thing)... so the "Loyal Wingman" like gap filler can have a different name vice versa

 

[Zafer]

Kizilelma cant

How do you know this, was there an announcement ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

We are all discussing on conjectures over an idea that was thrown in few years ago by Temel Kotil. He said something along the lines of “there would be Anka 4 to come yet. There will be a supersonic version.” looking at Anka-3.

Since then everyone has been guessing what this Anka-4 can be. There is no statement from Tusas regarding an Anka-4.

For one thing , if it is going to be a flying wing like Anka-3, It is not feasible for it to be supersonic. If it is going to be supersonic, then it will be in a more conventional design. Not a flying wing. We don’t even know if there is work being carried out on an “Anka-4”.
But if it is going to be built by Tusas, you can be sure that it will be built to a very high standard and will be a game changer class platform.

I agree with @Pilatino to have an expendable UCAV with long enough range to play both loyal wingman role and at the same time be able to penetrate deep in to enemy airspace and play the role of a kamikaze UAV. But süper Simsek is almost there. It can be carried along, under the wing of Anka-3, and when close enough, released to allow Anka-3 to return to full stealth mode whilst being stealthy itself, it can travel together to have suddenly two stealth UCAVs instead of just one attacking enemy positions.

ANKA III Releases Super Şimşek in key test for OKU Concept | TURDEF

Turkish Aerospace’s stealth UCAV ANKA III launched the high-speed Super Şimşek UAV mid-flight, marking a milestone in the OKU (Autonomous Wingman) programme.

turdef.com

 

[Zafer]

The timeline of development is not meant to stop, so at some point better and better planes can be expected to be introduced and there is no limit to improvement. However what makes a product relevant is its timely existence.

 

[TR_123456]

How do you know this, was there an announcement ?

Can the Kizilelma fire hypersonic missiles?

 

[Pilatino]

We are all discussing on conjectures over an idea that was thrown in few years ago by Temel Kotil. He said something along the lines of “there would be Anka 4 to come yet. There will be a supersonic version.” looking at Anka-3.

Since then everyone has been guessing what this Anka-4 can be. There is no statement from Tusas regarding an Anka-4.

For one thing , if it is going to be a flying wing like Anka-3, It is not feasible for it to be supersonic. If it is going to be supersonic, then it will be in a more conventional design. Not a flying wing. We don’t even know if there is work being carried out on an “Anka-4”.
But if it is going to be built by Tusas, you can be sure that it will be built to a very high standard and will be a game changer class platform.

I agree with @Pilatino to have an expendable UCAV with long enough range to play both loyal wingman role and at the same time be able to penetrate deep in to enemy airspace and play the role of a kamikaze UAV. But süper Simsek is almost there. It can be carried along, under the wing of Anka-3, and when close enough, released to allow Anka-3 to return to full stealth mode whilst being stealthy itself, it can travel together to have suddenly two stealth UCAVs instead of just one attacking enemy positions.

Şüper Şimşek as Loyal Wingman > Kızılelma > Anka 4 would work for me.

TUSAŞ is very busy but I hope they can show us a capable Süper Şimşek and Anka 4 on spotlight at least in IDEF27'. That would end all my worries.