TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Quasar]

Yes, matter of fact we do choose that. We did choose the same for our microjet engines of Kale, which are now one of the best in the market.

Why this ezik insecurity bro?

Really never thought my words could be interpereted in this way ... Bro quite the opposite .... it is sarcasm ....what I am saying is logic dictates that we may/will have a turbo fan engine which will fill the gap between TF 6000/ TF 10000 and TF 35000....and there will be others.... it is an almost natural process.... i.e TF 6000/ TF 10000 and TF 35000 are not the end of the story.

They are the solutions for our immediate needs... as new needs appear, there will be new solutions...who knows even some sooner than expected

in a way, In principle Kale engine(S) stated by you is the reflection of the same natural process.

otherwise we would be still using or try to use BMW jet engine 003 for everthing in the Air. (sarcasm)

As I wrote we can chiose to believe that TF 6000/ TF 10000 and TF 35000 are the end of the story.... yet this would not be a wise choise but an absurd one... this is what I was trying to say Bro

​

 

[boredaf]

Russia Mounts Soviet-Era R-60 Missiles on Geran-2 UAVs | TURDEF

Footage from a Ukrainian interceptor UAV and the wreckage shows that Russia has started integrating the R-60 air-to-air missiles on its Geran-2 kamikaze UAVs.

turdef.com

If this even manages to acquire and shoot down a helicopter or crop duster, I will start making a call for SÜPER ŞİMŞEK with a pair of SUNGUR missiles

We should adapt Titra's Alpin with Sungur pod (with all the necessary sensors etc) but also with Umtas or Omtas and some anti-personnel munition. That would give us a platform that could hunt armour or aerial vehicles within 200 km and engage them from kms away, without needing to go right on top of them, most likely before it is even spotted.

Or, at least upgrade Dumrul to have about 20 kg payload so that it can be used with a single Sungur or Karaok.

 

[Pilatino]

Russia Mounts Soviet-Era R-60 Missiles on Geran-2 UAVs | TURDEF

Footage from a Ukrainian interceptor UAV and the wreckage shows that Russia has started integrating the R-60 air-to-air missiles on its Geran-2 kamikaze UAVs.

turdef.com

If this even manages to acquire and shoot down a helicopter or crop duster, I will start making a call for SÜPER ŞİMŞEK with a pair of SUNGUR missiles

When we talk about Süper Şimşek, it becomes obvious that Türkiye still has a major and urgent need for a true "Loyal Wingman" platform. Maybe it will be called Anka-4, maybe something else, but the requirement is crystal clear.


Kızılelma, as impressive and capable as it is, is not the right match for this role. It will carry payloads that are simply too valuable to say, “I’ll send it, and if it doesn’t return, that’s fine.” This is even more true for the planned twin‑engine variant, which will be an even higher‑value asset.


Given this reality, Türkiye still needs a platform that is highly expendable, preferably with modular payload bays like the U.S. “Gambit” system. Something you can risk aggressively, adapt to mission needs, and deploy in batches without hesitation.


In terms of size and capability, from smallest to largest:


Süper Şimşek:

• A compact, expendable, high‑speed drone designed for decoy, attritable strike, and saturation missions.
• Ideal for confusing enemy sensors, absorbing enemy fire, or conducting limited strikes at very low cost.
• Not a full Loyal Wingman, but a “consumable” tactical asset.

Anka‑4:

• A heavier, stealth‑leaning UCAV concept that could evolve into a proper Loyal Wingman.
• More range, more endurance, and the potential for modular payloads (sensors, EW, small A2A missiles). (Similar to the "Gambit" named system in modularity)
• Risk‑tolerant enough to accompany manned jets on dangerous missions, but still affordable compared to high-end systems.

Kızılelma‑C (twin‑engine):

• A high‑end, high‑value unmanned fighter with major payload, speed, and endurance increases.
• Not expendable at all; closer to a strategic asset than a tactical attritable drone.
• Best suited for deep‑strike, advanced air combat roles, and pairing with 5th/6th‑gen fighters rather than “throwaway” tasks.

 

[TR_123456]

When we talk about Süper Şimşek, it becomes obvious that Türkiye still has a major and urgent need for a true "Loyal Wingman" platform. Maybe it will be called Anka-4, maybe something else, but the requirement is crystal clear.


Kızılelma, as impressive and capable as it is, is not the right match for this role. It will carry payloads that are simply too valuable to say, “I’ll send it, and if it doesn’t return, that’s fine.” This is even more true for the planned twin‑engine variant, which will be an even higher‑value asset.


Given this reality, Türkiye still needs a platform that is highly expendable, preferably with modular payload bays like the U.S. “Gambit” system. Something you can risk aggressively, adapt to mission needs, and deploy in batches without hesitation.


In terms of size and capability, from smallest to largest:


Süper Şimşek:

• A compact, expendable, high‑speed drone designed for decoy, attritable strike, and saturation missions.
• Ideal for confusing enemy sensors, absorbing enemy fire, or conducting limited strikes at very low cost.
• Not a full Loyal Wingman, but a “consumable” tactical asset.

Anka‑4:

• A heavier, stealth‑leaning UCAV concept that could evolve into a proper Loyal Wingman.
• More range, more endurance, and the potential for modular payloads (sensors, EW, small A2A missiles). (Similar to the "Gambit" named system in modularity)
• Risk‑tolerant enough to accompany manned jets on dangerous missions, but still affordable compared to high-end systems.

Kızılelma‑C (twin‑engine):

• A high‑end, high‑value unmanned fighter with major payload, speed, and endurance increases.
• Not expendable at all; closer to a strategic asset than a tactical attritable drone.
• Best suited for deep‑strike, advanced air combat roles, and pairing with 5th/6th‑gen fighters rather than “throwaway” tasks.

So,you think Anka-4 will be less then Kizilelma?
Anka-4 will be a big real stealth next gen drone able to fire Hypersonic missiles on solo missions.
Kizilelma cant,its a cheap solution taking over some of the roles of F-16 and KAAN.
Do some research.
Not even comparable.

 

[Pilatino]

So,you think Anka-4 will be less then Kizilelma?
Anka-4 will be a big real stealth next gen drone able to fire Hypersonic missiles on solo missions.
Kizilelma cant,its a cheap solution taking over some of the roles of F-16 and KAAN.
Do some research.
Not even comparable.

It doesn't look so cheap to me after all the planned systems on it. However I HOPE anka 4 can be a much more better and stealthier system than KIZILELMA too.

My main point is: WE NEED A "LOYAL WINGMAN" like system between Süper Şimşek and Kızılelma. The rest is unimportant tbh.


My honest expectation at the very beggining was: Kızılelma as loyal wingman (cheaper), Anka 4 as much stealthier and capable system than Kızılelma C and Süper Şimşek but... Kızılelma put it's goals to a higher place which crossed the TUSAŞ's Anka 4 plan as they hinted in their famous roadmap picture. I still prefer an ANKA4 with much better capabilities than Kızılelma. (even if it looks like 2 different projects for the same thing)... so the "Loyal Wingman" like gap filler can have a different name vice versa

 

[Zafer]

Kizilelma cant

How do you know this, was there an announcement ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

We are all discussing on conjectures over an idea that was thrown in few years ago by Temel Kotil. He said something along the lines of “there would be Anka 4 to come yet. There will be a supersonic version.” looking at Anka-3.

Since then everyone has been guessing what this Anka-4 can be. There is no statement from Tusas regarding an Anka-4.

For one thing , if it is going to be a flying wing like Anka-3, It is not feasible for it to be supersonic. If it is going to be supersonic, then it will be in a more conventional design. Not a flying wing. We don’t even know if there is work being carried out on an “Anka-4”.
But if it is going to be built by Tusas, you can be sure that it will be built to a very high standard and will be a game changer class platform.

I agree with @Pilatino to have an expendable UCAV with long enough range to play both loyal wingman role and at the same time be able to penetrate deep in to enemy airspace and play the role of a kamikaze UAV. But süper Simsek is almost there. It can be carried along, under the wing of Anka-3, and when close enough, released to allow Anka-3 to return to full stealth mode whilst being stealthy itself, it can travel together to have suddenly two stealth UCAVs instead of just one attacking enemy positions.

ANKA III Releases Super Şimşek in key test for OKU Concept | TURDEF

Turkish Aerospace’s stealth UCAV ANKA III launched the high-speed Super Şimşek UAV mid-flight, marking a milestone in the OKU (Autonomous Wingman) programme.

turdef.com

 

[Zafer]

The timeline of development is not meant to stop, so at some point better and better planes can be expected to be introduced and there is no limit to improvement. However what makes a product relevant is its timely existence.

 

[TR_123456]

How do you know this, was there an announcement ?

Can the Kizilelma fire hypersonic missiles?

 

[Pilatino]

We are all discussing on conjectures over an idea that was thrown in few years ago by Temel Kotil. He said something along the lines of “there would be Anka 4 to come yet. There will be a supersonic version.” looking at Anka-3.

Since then everyone has been guessing what this Anka-4 can be. There is no statement from Tusas regarding an Anka-4.

For one thing , if it is going to be a flying wing like Anka-3, It is not feasible for it to be supersonic. If it is going to be supersonic, then it will be in a more conventional design. Not a flying wing. We don’t even know if there is work being carried out on an “Anka-4”.
But if it is going to be built by Tusas, you can be sure that it will be built to a very high standard and will be a game changer class platform.

I agree with @Pilatino to have an expendable UCAV with long enough range to play both loyal wingman role and at the same time be able to penetrate deep in to enemy airspace and play the role of a kamikaze UAV. But süper Simsek is almost there. It can be carried along, under the wing of Anka-3, and when close enough, released to allow Anka-3 to return to full stealth mode whilst being stealthy itself, it can travel together to have suddenly two stealth UCAVs instead of just one attacking enemy positions.

Şüper Şimşek as Loyal Wingman > Kızılelma > Anka 4 would work for me.

TUSAŞ is very busy but I hope they can show us a capable Süper Şimşek and Anka 4 on spotlight at least in IDEF27'. That would end all my worries.

 

[Zafer]

Can the Kizilelma fire hypersonic missiles?

Gökhan is ramjet and it will possibly be fired from Kızılelma. I am not sure what speed is needed to start a ramjet engine but Kızılelma will go supersonic when it gets a better engine.

 

[Zafer]

Kaan will hopefully cover alot of bases and TUSAŞ can turn to cargo and passenger planes for a period of time while a 6th gen plane will go on a backburner until time is ripe to make one. Anka4 is probably meant to be an unmanned version of a 6th gen plane so backburner for a decade or so.

 

[Quasar]

We are all discussing on conjectures over an idea that was thrown in few years ago by Temel Kotil. He said something along the lines of “there would be Anka 4 to come yet. There will be a supersonic version.” looking at Anka-3.

Since then everyone has been guessing what this Anka-4 can be. There is no statement from Tusas regarding an Anka-4.

For one thing , if it is going to be a flying wing like Anka-3, It is not feasible for it to be supersonic. If it is going to be supersonic, then it will be in a more conventional design. Not a flying wing. We don’t even know if there is work being carried out on an “Anka-4”.
But if it is going to be built by Tusas, you can be sure that it will be built to a very high standard and will be a game changer class platform.

I agree with @Pilatino to have an expendable UCAV with long enough range to play both loyal wingman role and at the same time be able to penetrate deep in to enemy airspace and play the role of a kamikaze UAV. But süper Simsek is almost there. It can be carried along, under the wing of Anka-3, and when close enough, released to allow Anka-3 to return to full stealth mode whilst being stealthy itself, it can travel together to have suddenly two stealth UCAVs instead of just one attacking enemy positions.

Şüper Şimşek as Loyal Wingman > Kızılelma > Anka 4 would work for me.

TUSAŞ is very busy but I hope they can show us a capable Süper Şimşek and Anka 4 on spotlight at least in IDEF27'. That would end all my worries.

just for the sake of a better understanding and conceptualizing your ''Loyal Wingman'' What roles does a Loyal Wingman should perform and what capabilities does it have to have to be considered as a Loyal Wingman according to You? also would be intersting to hear the opinions of others as well

 

[Pilatino]

just for the sake of a better understanding and conceptualizing your ''Loyal Wingman'' What roles does a Loyal Wingman should perform and what capabilities does it have to have to be considered as a Loyal Wingman according to You?

Great question. For me, a Loyal Wingman isn’t defined by a single platform but by the roles and capabilities it must reliably deliver. In my view, a system qualifies as a Loyal Wingman if it can perform the following:

1. Risk-tolerant mission execution
It must be expendable enough to take the high-risk tasks that manned fighters or high-value UCAVs (like Kızılelma) shouldn’t.

2. Modular payload flexibility
The platform should be able to switch between sensors, EW payloads, decoy packs, or A2A/A2G weapons depending on the mission—Gambit-style modularity.

3. Autonomous teaming with manned or unmanned aircraft
It has to operate semi-autonomously alongside a parent aircraft, receive directives, and adapt to changing battlefield conditions.

4. Tactical roles such as:

Forward sensing / ISR

Electronic attack or jamming

Decoy / signature inflation

SEAD/DEAD support

Limited A2A interception

Saturation or distraction attacks


5. Lower cost and acceptable attrition
A Loyal Wingman must be strategically “expendable”—not a platform whose loss is operationally painful.

So whether it’s Süper Şimşek, Kızılelma, or a future Anka-4 derivative, the name matters less than these core characteristics. If a system fulfills them, I’d call it a Loyal Wingman.

 

[Zafer]

Kızılelma can have several versions from cheap to top notch. While its canards design is not top stealthy as well as its tail fins a stealthier plane may not be actually worth the effort if the latest radars will probably get to see even the stealthier planes better and better.

 

[Ahlatshah]

My main point is: WE NEED A "LOYAL WINGMAN" like system between Süper Şimşek and Kızılelma. The rest is unimportant tbh.

I agree that with all my heart. We need cheap (3-5 million $), no expensive or difficult to produce sensors and somewhat expandable/attritable drone. It has to be cheap, that is the key for so it can be produced at industrial scale. Also capable enough to can not be ignored, lets say "trouble makers" for enemy aircrafts and their drones.

We have reached such a level in drone technology and know how, the only thing we need someone with authority that determine the requirements and say "go ahead and do it" to our companies.

 

[Kitra]

According to GCSE Physics and Computer Science specifications,

signal latency is defined as the time delay between a signal being sent from one point (e.g., a transmitter) and when it is received at another point (e.g., a receiver).
Most times a signal may hop several times to reach its destination, especially if the destination is on the other side of earth.

Signal latency in physics is not specific to a single "hop" (a single segment of a journey) but is a cumulative measurement over the entire path the signal travels. The total latency of a signal is the sum of the delays incurred at each stage of its journey.

Thanks but that exactly the same definition as I gave. I never said anything of number of nodes jumps to reach an endpoint. For the discussion at hand, it is typically just one node jump, namely the sattelite between drone and ground control. It could obviously be more nodes, for example more sattelites or even other drones if you relay the signal around the world.

What seem to be the issue is not the definition of latency but reaction time to an incoming sudden threat. Here it could easily be up to 2 seconds as explained when you have a human in the loop. This is barely usable for close combat as I have expressed.

I think we all agree on the subject so this will be my last reply.

 

[Yasar_TR]

just for the sake of a better understanding and conceptualizing your ''Loyal Wingman'' What roles does a Loyal Wingman should perform and what capabilities does it have to have to be considered as a Loyal Wingman according to You? also would be intersting to hear the opinions of others as well

A "Loyal Wingman" drone is an autonomous or semi autonomous drone designed to fly alongside and support a manned aircraft, therby acting as a force multiplier.
It has basic responsibilities:

Manned and unmanned teaming - MUMT
Advanced AI application and thus, autonomy capability
Versatile payload if and when needed
Force multiplier by adding to the capabilities of the manned aircraft.
Decoy and distraction by imitating a manned platform.
Stealth capability to infiltrate deep in to enemy territory.

As well as adding to the capabilities of the manned aircraft, a loyal wingman is ready to sacrifice itself to save the primary platform.

KE could partially fill that position too. KE doesn’t have the necessary power to fully utilise the capabilities of the Murad Aesa radar. But can easily act as a munition mule whose guided missiles can be directed by another platform.

 

[neosinan]

 

[GoatsMilk]

The more Turkiye develops the more depressed and disappointed these guys seem to be. They seem to be less and less excited by it all. In the early videos they used to laugh a lot when talking about Turkish develops, used to softly mock a lot. Now the deep breaths of frustration seem to be ever prevalent.