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TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Quasar 

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According to the 2024 interview notes below he is vague about the engine production of Baykar.


He says they have decided to allocate 300 million dollars to engine development of Akinci and KE. But in another media notes he says that includes the 200+ TB2 engines they intend to produce every year in house. This engine is a small internal combustion engine that will replace the Rotax they are currently using for the TB2s.

Then he says the engine of KE will be ready and be an indigenous one within 4 years. He does not specifically say Baykar will be producing it.
We all know to develop and produce a turbofan like TF6000/10000 will take at least 10 years and will cost a lot more than that 300 million.
It means that the ongoing programme with current Ukranian engine propelling KE, will be indigenised by replacing it with TF10000.
The TF6000 is a capable engine too and will most likely suffice for KE. But if we want it to carry more payload at take off and be able to go supersonic when required, then TF10000 is the right choice.

is bypass ratio of TF 6000 - TF 10000 an effecting factor for the envisioned role of KIZILELMA?
 

Sanchez

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According to the 2024 interview notes below he is vague about the engine production of Baykar.


He says they have decided to allocate 300 million dollars to engine development of Akinci and KE. But in another media notes he says that includes the 200+ TB2 engines they intend to produce every year in house. This engine is a small internal combustion engine that will replace the Rotax they are currently using for the TB2s.

Then he says the engine of KE will be ready and be an indigenous one within 4 years. He does not specifically say Baykar will be producing it.
We all know to develop and produce a turbofan like TF6000/10000 will take at least 10 years and will cost a lot more than that 300 million.
It means that the ongoing programme with current Ukranian engine propelling KE, will be indigenised by replacing it with TF10000.
The TF6000 is a capable engine too and will most likely suffice for KE. But if we want it to carry more payload at take off and be able to go supersonic when required, then TF10000 is the right choice.
Back to Erdoğan statement from 2023:
"President Erdoğan:

Now they are conducting the final tests of the Kızılelma. The challenge we have to overcome is to produce our own indigenous engine...

Aselsan has a burden here: camera production. Unfortunately, engine production takes five years. In this process, we have to import engines"


Full rate production for TF6000 confirmed as 5 years?
2028 for KE with TF6K makes sense.
 

Yasar_TR

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is bypass ratio of TF 6000 - TF 10000 an effecting factor for the envisioned role of KIZILELMA?
Yes. Although both engines are classed as low bypass engines, their bypass ratios are slightly higher than most low bypass engines of their peers. In fact the TF6000 has slightly higher bypass ratio than TF10000 if we look at their individual specs (1:1.08 for TF6000 and 1:1.00 for TF10000)
By increasing the amount of cold air going round the engine, they are decreasing the IR signature of the plane and the nozzle. Hence making it stealthier. It will be an optimised engine for the the altitudes that KE will operate. At denser air altitudes this engine will give a more efficient performance if compared to other similarly rated engines, in addition to its stealthier signature.
 

Quasar 

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Yes. Although both engines are classed as low bypass engines, their bypass ratios are slightly higher than most low bypass engines of their peers. In fact the TF6000 has slightly higher bypass ratio than TF10000 if we look at their individual specs (1:1.08 for TF6000 and 1:1.00 for TF10000)
By increasing the amount of cold air going round the engine, they are decreasing the IR signature of the plane and the nozzle. Hence making it stealthier. It will be an optimised engine for the the altitudes that KE will operate. At denser air altitudes this engine will give a more efficient performance if compared to other similarly rated engines, in addition to its stealthier signature.

for ANKA 3 TF 6000 is ideal for efficient performance yet for KIZILELMA I have concerns frankly, in the futture IF we are seeking for high performance naturlly significantly lower bypass ratio is the norm??? but sure it does not mean TF 6000-10000 is inadequate.... at the end this is what we have and safer path to follow for our first turbofan engine?
 
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Yasar_TR

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for ANKA 3 TF 6000 is ideal for efficient performance yet for KIZILELMA I have concerns frankly, in the futture IF we are seeking for high performance naturlly significantly lower bypass is the norm??? but sure it does not mean TF 6000-10000 is inadequate.... at the end this is what we have and safer path to follow for our first turbofan engine?
Anka-3 is a subsonic plane. So it doesn’t need TF10000. But if you want to take off with extra load TF10000 would help.
For KE , TF6000 could be enough too. After all many fighter jets spend most of their time in subsonic domain. I doubt we would be using KE in dogfights or in conditions where it needs to evade a2a missiles. Being a stealthy design it would be used to fire long range a2a missiles and stand-off air to ground munitions without being detected by ground and enemy radar systems.
 

Quasar 

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just wishfull thinking but still in addition to HÜRJET getting some extra F 404 for KIZILELMA would be interesting

OR

1- F 404 max diameter is 89 cm

2- TF 6000 - 10000 86 cm - 87 cm respectivly

a new domestic turbofan for Hürjet,Kızılema or even more.... ok ok as I said just wisfull thinking

at least dimensional resemblence is undeniable :devilish:
 
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Zafer

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Single engine, twin engine configurations are classic but what about triples. China opened the doors for it. Imagine an Anka3 with triple engines, also mixing TF6 & TF10 engines. A TF10 in the middle with twin TF6 on the sides. This can give more power when needed. A similar aproach with Kızılelma can bring new capabilities.
 

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Single engine, twin engine configurations are classic but what about triples. China opened the doors for it. Imagine an Anka3 with triple engines, also mixing TF6 & TF10 engines. A TF10 in the middle with twin TF6 on the sides. This can give more power when needed. A similar aproach with Kızılelma can bring new capabilities.

China's triple engine solution is a unique case where the manned aircraft in question is excepted to have an MTOW of 50 tonnes.
 

Zafer

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China's triple engine solution is a unique case where the manned aircraft in question is excepted to have an MTOW of 50 tonnes.
Unique for how long, depends on who breaks the tradition next. It is about making the best use of available components to expand the envelope. If making another engine is unlikely making an unortodox plane becomes likely. It is the newfound wide designspace of the planes that bow to noman.
 
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TR_123456

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Can you post your source on that ?
Yeah,he cant because there is none.
Pakistani engineers are working at TAI but it has nothing to do with Pakistan,
TAI is working for over 40 years with all the big airospace companies like Boeing,Airbus,RR,Safran etc making WINGS fuselage etc for various airplanes so his statement doesnt make any sense.
 

Yasar_TR

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Yeah,he cant because there is none.
Pakistani engineers are working at TAI but it has nothing to do with Pakistan,
TAI is working for over 40 years with all the big airospace companies like Boeing,Airbus,RR,Safran etc making WINGS fuselage etc for various airplanes so his statement doesnt make any sense.
During Temel Kotil’s time a deal was signed between TAI and Pakistani Nescom to manufacture certain parts of Anka drone in Pakistan with some TOT.
 
T

TR_123456

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During Temel Kotil’s time a deal was signed between TAI and Pakistani Nescom to manufacture certain parts of Anka drone in Pakistan with some TOT.
''Even TAI received aid from PAKISTAN for the ANKA project so that the bird would get proper wings. The events that happened in the ANKA project are enough for a Hollywood movie.''


Yes but manufactoring parts is not what meant above.

''So that the bird would get proper wings.''

TAI cant produce proper wings?

TAI helped Pakistan,not the other way.
 

OPTIMUS

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Can you post your source on that ?
of course.

Yeah,he cant because there is none.
Pakistani engineers are working at TAI but it has nothing to do with Pakistan,
TAI is working for over 40 years with all the big airospace companies like Boeing,Airbus,RR,Safran etc making WINGS fuselage etc for various airplanes so his statement doesnt make any sense.
Yes, dozens of pieces of evidence, photos. Only names stay with me.

Because the purpose you were looking for, we hadn't seen either, at the time when whole teams from Anka were carried out in a fog and night operation, because they came from a well-known university, which just didn’t fit well for some people, under the leadership of a Major, who was first promoted to Brigadier General, shortly afterward to Major General. That’s when we understood that everything had to go, whole plans, sketches, documentation, photos, results 'right or wrong,' everything had to be removed—even some people took certain tools away. No one could say anything. The press, led by a newspaper and TV channels, was against success. And this General was kicked out of the Army. Sitting in prison.

TAI and NESCOM is a completely different story. TAI received support from another Pakistani company. They identified themselves as being from P 751. Admittedly, they were very good as well. Their knowledge and experience in wing construction were impeccable. But their skill in identifying and solving problems was unmatched worldwide. The Pakistanis helped a lot.

The new teams, where all doors and gates were wide open, didn’t know at first which way was left or right. One day, they were sanding Anka’s body with sandpaper to make the bird lighter. They actually did that. There was even a reporter team from S&H magazine present. They also wrote about this work in the next issue. However, the new team disturbed the bird’s balance with the sanding. Anka couldn’t stay in the air and crashed. They immediately found the culprit: ASELSAN was to blame. ASELFLIR was supposedly heavier than they had stated. In fact, these new people did everything wrong that you could possibly do. They even sabotaged the T 129 ATAK to make themselves believable. My eyes saw how these people poured concrete on the ATAK’s tail to restore balance because ASELFLIR 300 was supposedly too heavy. That was, of course, a lie—a brazen lie.

In these times, the government began to be more skeptical about the events at TAI, and MIT looked more closely. Then came the accusations from Israel and from these people against Hakan F. for being too close to Iran with the PKK-OSLO leak. The first video about this leak came from these people via Vimeo from the USA. A short time later, in Februar 2012, they wanted to arrest Hakan F., etc....

We saw after 7 Months the Pakistanis from September 2012. The new teams were not enthusiastic about Pakistanis. To be honest, they initially held back. The newteams became more skeptical and caused the third ANKA to crash, which happened six months after the Pakistanis arrived. Just to be able to say that Pakistanis are stupid.

The calculations by Pakistanis showed that the entire wing design and construction were faulty. They were afraid, and the day after, all the ANKAs were glued to the fuselage at the wing root with thick black industrial stripe adhesive.

a few years later the coup happened anyway.

Unfortunately, I don't have more evidence. I think the justice system has more evidence than I do.

I want to see if the fish are scared this time as well. If you delete this too, then you'll know who these fish are.
 
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Zafer

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of course.


Yes, dozens of pieces of evidence, photos. Only names stay with me.

Because the purpose you were looking for, we hadn't seen either, at the time when whole teams from Anka were carried out in a fog and night operation, because they came from a well-known university, which just didn’t fit well for some people, under the leadership of a Major, who was first promoted to Brigadier General, shortly afterward to Major General. That’s when we understood that everything had to go, whole plans, sketches, documentation, photos, results 'right or wrong,' everything had to be removed—even some people took certain tools away. No one could say anything. The press, led by a newspaper and TV channels, was against success. And this General was kicked out of the Army. Sitting in prison.

TAI and NESCOM is a completely different story. TAI received support from another Pakistani company. They identified themselves as being from P 751. Admittedly, they were very good as well. Their knowledge and experience in wing construction were impeccable. But their skill in identifying and solving problems was unmatched worldwide. The Pakistanis helped a lot.

The new teams, where all doors and gates were wide open, didn’t know at first which way was left or right. One day, they were sanding Anka’s body with sandpaper to make the bird lighter. They actually did that. There was even a reporter team from S&H magazine present. They also wrote about this work in the next issue. However, the new team disturbed the bird’s balance with the sanding. Anka couldn’t stay in the air and crashed. They immediately found the culprit: ASELSAN was to blame. ASELFLIR was supposedly heavier than they had stated. In fact, these new people did everything wrong that you could possibly do. They even sabotaged the T 129 ATAK to make themselves believable. My eyes saw how these people poured concrete on the ATAK’s tail to restore balance because ASELFLIR 300 was supposedly too heavy. That was, of course, a lie—a brazen lie.

In these times, the government began to be more skeptical about the events at TAI, and MIT looked more closely. Then came the accusations from Israel and from these people against Hakan F. for being too close to Iran with the PKK-OSLO leak. The first video about this leak came from these people via Vimeo from the USA. A short time later, in Februar 2012, they wanted to arrest Hakan F., etc....

We saw after 7 Months the Pakistanis from September 2012. The new teams were not enthusiastic about Pakistanis. To be honest, they initially held back. The newteams became more skeptical and caused the third ANKA to crash, which happened six months after the Pakistanis arrived. Just to be able to say that Pakistanis are stupid.

The calculations by Pakistanis showed that the entire wing design and construction were faulty. They were afraid, and the day after, all the ANKAs were glued to the fuselage at the wing root with thick black industrial stripe adhesive.

a few years later the coup happened anyway.

Unfortunately, I don't have more evidence. I think the justice system has more evidence than I do.

I want to see if the fish are scared this time as well. If you delete this too, then you'll know who these fish are.
No wonder Baykar was the first to turn a drone into a bomber and not TAI, how could they be with the traitors within.
 

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