TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[TheInsider]

GÖKBORA füzesinin menzili 200 km'yi aşacak mı? BvR füzesi KIZILELMA ve F-16'da ne zaman kullanılacak?

ROKETSAN Genel Müdürü Murat İkinci, yaklaşık 200 kilometre menzilli hava-hava füzesi GÖKBORA'nın yanına yenilerinin ekleneceğine ilişkin önemli bir sinyal verdi. GÖKBORA'nın 'görüş ötesi menzilli füze ailesi' olarak Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri envanterinde ye

www.trhaber.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1996578101313110332

Engine development for the Gökbora project is completed.

Gökbora will be an air-to-air missile family.

The project is moving at a record pace.

 

[Yasar_TR]

GÖKBORA füzesinin menzili 200 km'yi aşacak mı? BvR füzesi KIZILELMA ve F-16'da ne zaman kullanılacak?

ROKETSAN Genel Müdürü Murat İkinci, yaklaşık 200 kilometre menzilli hava-hava füzesi GÖKBORA'nın yanına yenilerinin ekleneceğine ilişkin önemli bir sinyal verdi. GÖKBORA'nın 'görüş ötesi menzilli füze ailesi' olarak Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri envanterinde ye

www.trhaber.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1996578101313110332

Engine development for the Gökbora project is completed.

Gökbora will be an air-to-air missile family.

The project is moving at a record pace.

That first statement is the most important part. If the engine development is completed then the missile is almost ready for testing. The solid fuel powered Ramjet motor is the most sensitive and difficult part of the project.

Well done Roketsan!

With that sort of range under its belt, even f16 jets supported with Murad radar will turn in to potent killing machines.
Once it can be fired from KE’s IWBs then it may become even deadlier.

 

[zio]

A fighter jet can not be tracked from 200km by another fighter’s nose radar. But with these ramjet missiles, NEZ is improved. You can also make this with classic rocket motor missiles by adding dual pulse system amd it is a cheaper way. For the future, these long range missiles gradually will have lost their value due to the fact that stealth fighters can not engage each others in long range. So more missiles with short/medium range are needed on stealth fighters. A pilot with 2 AA missiles is in trouble if one missile is fired already, the other one is his last chance. The other point is to eliminate high value air targets with very long range AA missiles. In this case, ramjet powered missiles will be better than classic rocket powered ones. A big boy gökbora missile with 200 km range would be a real game changer. Overall we are on a good path with these products as such short/medium/long range AA missile family with GaN based nose radars, kızıelma, özgür project, T link and domestic IFF systems, missile warning sensors, DIRC, FEWS.

 

[uçuyorum]

That first statement is the most important part. If the engine development is completed then the missile is almost ready for testing. The solid fuel powered Ramjet motor is the most sensitive and difficult part of the project.

Well done Roketsan!

With that sort of range under its belt, even f16 jets supported with Murad radar will turn in to potent killing machines.
Once it can be fired from KE’s IWBs then it may become even deadlier.

Seeker is more important here, at such long ranges you need a large aesa seeker and that is likely to take longer, don't know if there is commonality for ongoing seeker development for Gökhan

 

[Merzifonlu]

Seeker is more important here, at such long ranges you need a large aesa seeker and that is likely to take longer, don't know if there is commonality for ongoing seeker development for Gökhan

We need a seeker based on AESA technology, and ideally, it should combine AESA with IIR capabilities.

 

[YusufKnight]

We need a seeker based on AESA technology, and ideally, it should combine AESA with IIR capabilities.

What type of seeker is now used in Gokdogan?

 

[Merzifonlu]

What type of seeker is now used in Gokdogan?

As far as I know, there's an RF seeker. So, it doesn't have AESA technology. Maybe they added IIR to make it safer, but I don't think they did that.

 

[Quasar]

What we know is for solid fuel ramjet-powered GÖKBORA During IDEF25 defence exhibition, a deal was signed to develop the AGRAS 3101/AA AESA RF seeker for the missile between ASELSAN, ROKETSAN, and SSB. This marks the first AESA seeker to be developed in Türkiye.

 

[boredaf]

We need a seeker based on AESA technology, and ideally, it should combine AESA with IIR capabilities.

Gökbora is going to have an AESA seeker, it was already announced at IDEF

 

[Quasar]

@Yasar_TR Gökhan is liquid fuel ramjet engine and Gokbora with solid fuel ramjet and AESA RF seeker? what would be pros and cons of liquid (gel?) fuel and solid fuel ramjets respectivly other than solid fuel ramjet being a bit simpler than liquid fuel one?

''Liquid-fueled systems typically offer higher specific impulse and can be throttled for varying thrust levels, whereas solid fuels provide consistent thrust once ignited. Liquid-fueled ramjets require more complex plumbing and fuel management systems, while solid-fueled ramjets are simpler in design, with fewer moving parts. In addition, solid-fueled systems are generally easier to handle and maintain and have a longer shelf life than liquid-fueled systems.''

I can see the logic but still cant help myself to also ask for a missile with Gökhan's liquid fuel ramjet engine and Gökbora's AESA seeker as well

 

[Yasar_TR]

A fighter jet can not be tracked from 200km by another fighters nose radar

It can be tracked and targeted. Typhoon Tranche-3’s ECRS-MK0 radar already can do that. The new ECRS2 radar will have that capability and more.
Same is valid for the radars on F22 , F35 and f15EX (for a target of 1m2 RCA)

In fact they can track enemy planes from much further than 200km. Some radars’ tracking range is claimed to be as far as 400km. For modern Aesa nose radars 200km radar targeting range is also quite achievable.

While specific F16 integration of Murad nose radar showed an instrumental range of 112km, with test displays showing up to 160 NM (around 300km) for fire control.
The ranges scale of the Murad-100A AESA radar were shared with an official video. There it could be seen that the radar scans at a range of 160nm(~300km) and it locks a target at a range longer than 120nm (222+km).
We haven’t seen what Murad-600 can do yet.

these long range missiles gradually will have lost their value due to the fact that stealth fighters can not engage each others in long range.

You are discarding the fact that radar technology is also progressing at an incredible rate to nullify the advantage of stealth. Detection ranges of stealth planes will increase as newer radars are introduced. Also one has to remember that a lot of these stealthy planes will be carrying large and heavy munitions on their outer pylons and will have lost their stealth. Hence making them vulnerable.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Yasar_TR Gökhan is liquid fuel ramjet engine and Gokbora with solid fuel ramjet and AESA RF seeker? what would be pros and cons of liquid (gel?) fuel and solid fuel ramjets respectivly other than solid fuel ramjet being a bit simpler than liquid fuel one?

''Liquid-fueled systems typically offer higher specific impulse and can be throttled for varying thrust levels, whereas solid fuels provide consistent thrust once ignited. Liquid-fueled ramjets require more complex plumbing and fuel management systems, while solid-fueled ramjets are simpler in design, with fewer moving parts. In addition, solid-fueled systems are generally easier to handle and maintain and have a longer shelf life than liquid-fueled systems.''

I can see the logic but still cant help myself to also ask for a missile with Gökhan's liquid fuel ramjet engine and Gökbora's AESA seeker as well

Regarding the Aesa seeker, will see when the missile is shown to the public. At the moment there isn’t much that has been publicised.

Regarding the liquid fuel of Ramjets, we had discussed this in detail before several times. Liquid fuels are no good for these missiles. For one thing you can not store these missiles filled with liquid fuel. Also, all these fuels need special particles to be added to enhance their performance. Adding these particles to solid fuel is no problem. But when you add them to liquid fuels, they sink to the bottom. So to overcome this problem the liquid is produced as a gel. This way a more homogeneous distribution of particles are achieved. A gel based fuel also storable. It acts like a liquid fuel when injected in to combustion chamber and behaves like a solid fuel for adding particles and storage. But with this system you need a separate fuel tank.

A solid fuelled ramjet is actually much harder to build.
First you “stick” your ramjet fuel in to the combustion chamber’s inner surface of the ramjet motor. Then you add your booster solid fuel in to the combustion chamber. When you burn all the booster fuel, you start peeling off the solid fuel stuck on the inner periphery of your combustion chamber in an ablative manner with airjets and burn it. The more you peel off the more fuel you use and the faster the missile goes. This way you have throttle control.
So you don’t need extra booster part or fuel tank. But it is a very precise tech you need to have. But this way the missiles like Meteor can have speed control.

 

[boredaf]

It can be tracked and targeted. Typhoon Tranche-3’s ECRS-MK0 radar already can do that. The new ECRS2 radar will have that capability and more.
Same is valid for the radars on F22 , F35 and f15EX (for a target of 1m2 RCA)

In fact they can track enemy planes from much further than 200km. Some radars’ tracking range is claimed to be as far as 400km. For modern Aesa nose radars 200km radar targeting range is also quite achievable.

While specific F16 integration of Murad nose radar showed an instrumental range of 112km, with test displays showing up to 160 NM (around 300km) for fire control.
The ranges scale of the Murad-100A AESA radar were shared with an official video. There it could be seen that the radar scans at a range of 160nm(~300km) and it locks a target at a range longer than 120nm (222+km).
We haven’t seen what Murad-600 can do yet.


You are discarding the fact that radar technology is also progressing at an incredible rate to nullify the advantage of stealth. Detection ranges of stealth planes will increase as newer radars are introduced. Also one has to remember that a lot of these stealthy planes will be carrying large and heavy munitions on their outer pylons and will have lost their stealth. Hence making them vulnerable.

I think "loyal wingman" drones will get rid of that problem, it makes far more sense to carry munitions on drones instead of pylons. Even if they can only carry 1 or 2 missiles, putting two or three drones around the jet is a far better option compared to risking the jet and the pilot.

 

[TheInsider]

That first statement is the most important part. If the engine development is completed then the missile is almost ready for testing. The solid fuel powered Ramjet motor is the most sensitive and difficult part of the project.

Well done Roketsan!

With that sort of range under its belt, even f16 jets supported with Murad radar will turn in to potent killing machines.
Once it can be fired from KE’s IWBs then it may become even deadlier.

Well, it is not a new engine development; it is an engine modification. Roketsan already has a working solid-fuel ramjet engine for another project. Roketsan just modified it for the Gökbora project.

 

[TheInsider]

What we know is for solid fuel ramjet-powered GÖKBORA During IDEF25 defence exhibition, a deal was signed to develop the AGRAS 3101/AA AESA RF seeker for the missile between ASELSAN, ROKETSAN, and SSB. This marks the first AESA seeker to be developed in Türkiye.

That is true. Gökbora will have an AESA seeker, and I expect Gökhan to use a variant of this seeker, but I wouldn't be surprised if different variants of these missiles come with other seekers. Initial versions might use the existing RF seeker in use with Gökdoğan. Meteor still doesn't have an AESA seeker. The UK and Japan partnered to develop an AESA seeker for Meteor.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Tolun F(fragmentation Warhead) firing test from Akinci.
two Tolun F on the outer pylons and two normal on the central pylon.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1997646035976388848

Maybe it will also get IIR variant in the future

 

[MonteCarlo]

Tolun F(fragmentation Warhead) firing test from Akinci.
two Tolun F on the outer pylons and two normal on the central pylon.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1997646035976388848

Maybe it will also get IIR variant in the future

it seems to me like it already has an IIR seeker. Regular Tolun has a sharp conic shape instead for the penetration effect

 

[Pokemonte13]

View attachment 78548

View attachment 78549
it seems to me like it already has an IIR seeker. Regular Tolun has a sharp conic shape instead for the penetration effect

Thats tolun F

 

[Sanchez]

Tolun-IIR already exists, test from last year.

We don't know which is which for this test.

 

[Oublious]

Thanks to the centralized tactical missile management we introduced to KMC-U under AGMOSS, #KARAOK launches performed from different UAV platforms hit the target with pinpoint accuracy.

We continue to work on integrated control, rapid decision-making, and high precision in the mission area.