TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Pokemonte13]

It is nice to hear that Atmaca archieved a Succes in the latest Tests.

I have another Question. In 2022 the Barbaros coastal Defence System was succesfully tested and in 2024/25 Cakir was integrated in the Barbaros System. Till now Barbaros was not inducted in turkish Navy Invertory. With the Deployment of Eu Vessels in the Waters arround Cyprus we face a dangerous Gap, by not having the Capabillity to conduct Land launched Strikes against enemy Vessels.

Whats the question?

 

[TR_123456]

Whats the question?

Till now Barbaros was not inducted in turkish Navy Inventory,why not?
That would be the question.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Speaking of BARBAROS, I think this is important, especially down in the south (Damn, talk about the good timing for TÜBİTAK's recap)

TÜBİTAK Completes OTH Radar Project for the Turkish Navy | TURDEF

TÜBİTAK’s 2025 activity report includes the completion of the YDYFR HF-band maritime surveillance over-the-horizon (OTH) radar project for the Turkish Navy.

turdef.com

 

[MonteCarlo]

Some interesting things from TÜBİTAK 2025 report.

A contract modification to increase the range and capabilities of Gökhan has been made and contract for a new Gökhan block was signed. New block Gökhan will be one of the longest range air to air missiles in NATO inventory

Integration of Bozdoğan, Gökdoğan, Gökhan and Som-J to Kaan's IWB and HGK, kgk and SOM to external hard points have been on going

Integration of air to air missiles to Kızılelma, Akıncı and Anka-3 planned

SOM-J live warhead test and qualification is in the 2025 report too. Which from my understanding means that the footage we saw recently is at least 3 months old

1700 HGK's delivered to air force

Kuzgun ky-1 was test fired from 8 packed launcher on a Marlin Sida

Gökdoğan was fired by F-16 özgür with an Murad AESA radar(which we already knew afaik but confirmation is nice)

 

[MonteCarlo]

Speaking of BARBAROS, I think this is important, especially down in the south (Damn, talk about the good timing for TÜBİTAK's recap)

TÜBİTAK Completes OTH Radar Project for the Turkish Navy | TURDEF

TÜBİTAK’s 2025 activity report includes the completion of the YDYFR HF-band maritime surveillance over-the-horizon (OTH) radar project for the Turkish Navy.

turdef.com

Very nice and informative article hovewer is this sentence unfinished or am I misunderstanding:

"Such radars are set up as fixed sites due to the amount and size of antennas required, and can be considered on a more strategic level compared to a generic transportable radar that performs direct search. Due to the frequency band, these radars"

Feels like it should continue but it ends abruptly.

 

[Pokemonte13]

1700 HGK is a very good number for TÜBITAK I wonder how high the total number is for all of our guidance kits?
Probably over 6000 if not over 10000?

 

[Kaan Azman]

Very nice and informative article hovewer is this sentence unfinished or am I misunderstanding:

"Such radars are set up as fixed sites due to the amount and size of antennas required, and can be considered on a more strategic level compared to a generic transportable radar that performs direct search. Due to the frequency band, these radars"

Feels like it should continue but it ends abruptly.

Yeah, my ADHD kicked in, fixed

 

[Pokemonte13]

Whats that on the bottom left with 1000km+ range?
Also Kara Atmaca officially with 500km range

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2039347424506863847

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 79776
Whats that on the bottom left with 1000km+ range?
Also Kara Atmaca officially with 500km range

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2039347424506863847

Le CENK.

 

[Sanchez]

View attachment 79776
Whats that on the bottom left with 1000km+ range?
Also Kara Atmaca officially with 500km range

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2039347424506863847

Would love to see "karma roket" actually on the field as well. Lots of ingredients, no soup. Our MLRS inventory needs an urgent upgrade.

 

[Zafer]

• Tayfun-1 600+ km
• Tayfun-4 1800 km

estimated

 

[Kaan Azman]

I am pretty sure Tayfun Block 4 can go 1000+ km but 1000+what is still a mystery

Zolfhagar with the same length but smaller diameter can hit 700 km, a slightly longer variant (Dezful) can hit 1000 km

However, diameter matters more than length for range as a rule of thumb, as shown by ER GMLRS that has a larger rocket motor diameter at the same length but yields twice the GMLRS range.

 

[Yasar_TR]

• Tayfun-1 600+ km
• Tayfun-4 1800 km

estimated

Source?

 

[Zafer]

Source?

• 1800 km > Israeli experts are rumored to have estimated from the disclosed weight and dimensions of Tayfun-4, this was on TV news
• 561 km was demonstrated by Roketsan and video was shared about it. Rounding this number to 600+ is a safe estimate anyone can make for Tayfun-1

This information was out there within a few days of the missiles' first appearance. I am surprised that there is even single person on defencehub who hasn't heard this.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The major defining parameter in a solid fuel rocket's range is the
total impulse of the rocket motor, which is primarily driven by the total mass and energy content (specific impulse) of the propellant grain. Total impulse dictates the overall energy available for propulsion.

A higher mass of propellant, often enabled by optimizing the motor's grain geometry (e.g., length and shape), directly increases the total impulse and thus the range.

This measures the efficiency of the propellant and motor; with higher isp allowing more range for a given mass.

The speed at which the solid propellant burns determines the thrust profile over time, which affects the acceleration and trajectory.

So without knowing total impulse, Specific Impulse, mass of propellant and burn speed of propellant, to talk about range of a solid fuel missile, is only guess work.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

The major defining parameter in a solid fuel rocket's range is the
total impulse of the rocket motor, which is primarily driven by the total mass and energy content (specific impulse) of the propellant grain. Total impulse dictates the overall energy available for propulsion.

A higher mass of propellant, often enabled by optimizing the motor's grain geometry (e.g., length and shape), directly increases the total impulse and thus the range.

This measures the efficiency of the propellant and motor; with higher isp allowing more range for a given mass.

The speed at which the solid propellant burns determines the thrust profile over time, which affects the acceleration and trajectory.

So without knowing total impulse, Specific Impulse, mass of propellant and burn speed of propellant, to talk about range of a solid fuel missile, is only guess work.

What do you guess is Tayfun-4 range?

 

[Yasar_TR]

What do you guess Tayfun-4 range is?

I don’t usually like guesswork. Especially after Roketsan MD Murat İkinci mentioning this missile to fly at hypersonic speeds and hitting it’s target at or above 5Mach speed.

As he also said that this is a hypersonic weapon; one of the prerequisites of hypersonic missiles is the fact that they manoeuvre during their midcourse flight making it difficult for exo atmospheric and similar interceptors to hit them.

That means it will deviate from a straight line eating away from it‘s otherwise total range.

If it were following a purely ballistic trajectory, I could guess within a tolerance, it’s terminal speed. I can tell you that it would be around just above Mach 1.

But it is going to hit the target at 5mach. That means it has to carry fuel to be used at terminal phase. That also means it is not going to use all it’s fuel to go further.
So Tayfun’s range is only known by the designers. We will be told when they test it.

This missile will be a real force multiplier weapon. Forget how far it can go. It is a 7200kg 10m long 0.938m diameter monster missile. It will definitely go more than 1000km. But if they can achieve the precision they are aiming for and really do what we have been told it will do, it is going to be a game changer through and through.

 

[Sanchez]

As he also said that this is a hypersonic weapon; one of the prerequisites of hypersonic missiles is the fact that they manoeuvre during their midcourse flight making it difficult for exo atmospheric and similar interceptors to hit them.

It isn't. I think he's just playing on the audience and the "hypersonic" buzzword. Majority of laymen don't know what an HGV or terminal course correction is, they only think that the weapon is so fast that it cannot be intercepted.

All MRBMs (+1000km range) reach hypersonic speeds by their nature and nearly all of them go twice as fast. Being hypersonic doesn't mean anything. İkinci knows this, but his audience doesn't.

 

[Kaan Azman]

I don’t usually like guesswork. Especially after Roketsan MD Murat İkinci mentioning this missile to fly at hypersonic speeds and hitting it’s target at or above 5Mach speed.

As he also said that this is a hypersonic weapon; one of the prerequisites of hypersonic missiles is the fact that they manoeuvre during their midcourse flight making it difficult for exo atmospheric and similar interceptors to hit them.

That means it will deviate from a straight line eating away from it‘s otherwise total range.

If it were following a purely ballistic trajectory, I could guess within a tolerance, it’s terminal speed. I can tell you that it would be around just above Mach 1.

But it is going to hit the target at 5mach. That means it has to carry fuel to be used at terminal phase. That also means it is not going to use all it’s fuel to go further.
So Tayfun’s range is only known by the designers. We will be told when they test it.

This missile will be a real force multiplier weapon. Forget how far it can go. It is a 7200kg 10m long 0.938m diameter monster missile. It will definitely go more than 1000km. But if they can achieve the precision they are aiming for and really do what we have been told it will do, it is going to be a game changer through and through.

Hypersonic speed still feels vague for me

Is it hypersonic at midcourse when it adjusts its trajectory to be quasi-ballistic? This is not uncommon and doesn't always mean the missile is hypersonic at terminal stage

Is it hypersonic at not only midcourse but also terminal stage? You need either high hypersonic midcourse speed (>Mach 10) or some sort of secondary ignition (See YJ-20 and Fatah-1/2)

Judging by Tayfun Block 4's size, I think it comfortably steps into the MRBM realm at least on the lower half

 

[uçuyorum]

Hypersonic used to mean hypersonic cruise missile or glide vehicle, not ballistic because ballistics were indeed hypersonic in some sense. İt's sustained maneuverable hypersonic air breathing missiles and hybrids that became a big deal few years back. İt could be that the warhead can be air breathing and maneuver in terminal stage in Cenk etc