TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Yasar_TR]

• Tayfun-1 600+ km
• Tayfun-4 1800 km

estimated

Source?

 

[Zafer]

Source?

• 1800 km > Israeli experts are rumored to have estimated from the disclosed weight and dimensions of Tayfun-4, this was on TV news
• 561 km was demonstrated by Roketsan and video was shared about it. Rounding this number to 600+ is a safe estimate anyone can make for Tayfun-1

This information was out there within a few days of the missiles' first appearance. I am surprised that there is even single person on defencehub who hasn't heard this.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The major defining parameter in a solid fuel rocket's range is the
total impulse of the rocket motor, which is primarily driven by the total mass and energy content (specific impulse) of the propellant grain. Total impulse dictates the overall energy available for propulsion.

A higher mass of propellant, often enabled by optimizing the motor's grain geometry (e.g., length and shape), directly increases the total impulse and thus the range.

This measures the efficiency of the propellant and motor; with higher isp allowing more range for a given mass.

The speed at which the solid propellant burns determines the thrust profile over time, which affects the acceleration and trajectory.

So without knowing total impulse, Specific Impulse, mass of propellant and burn speed of propellant, to talk about range of a solid fuel missile, is only guess work.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

The major defining parameter in a solid fuel rocket's range is the
total impulse of the rocket motor, which is primarily driven by the total mass and energy content (specific impulse) of the propellant grain. Total impulse dictates the overall energy available for propulsion.

A higher mass of propellant, often enabled by optimizing the motor's grain geometry (e.g., length and shape), directly increases the total impulse and thus the range.

This measures the efficiency of the propellant and motor; with higher isp allowing more range for a given mass.

The speed at which the solid propellant burns determines the thrust profile over time, which affects the acceleration and trajectory.

So without knowing total impulse, Specific Impulse, mass of propellant and burn speed of propellant, to talk about range of a solid fuel missile, is only guess work.

What do you guess is Tayfun-4 range?

 

[Yasar_TR]

What do you guess Tayfun-4 range is?

I don’t usually like guesswork. Especially after Roketsan MD Murat İkinci mentioning this missile to fly at hypersonic speeds and hitting it’s target at or above 5Mach speed.

As he also said that this is a hypersonic weapon; one of the prerequisites of hypersonic missiles is the fact that they manoeuvre during their midcourse flight making it difficult for exo atmospheric and similar interceptors to hit them.

That means it will deviate from a straight line eating away from it‘s otherwise total range.

If it were following a purely ballistic trajectory, I could guess within a tolerance, it’s terminal speed. I can tell you that it would be around just above Mach 1.

But it is going to hit the target at 5mach. That means it has to carry fuel to be used at terminal phase. That also means it is not going to use all it’s fuel to go further.
So Tayfun’s range is only known by the designers. We will be told when they test it.

This missile will be a real force multiplier weapon. Forget how far it can go. It is a 7200kg 10m long 0.938m diameter monster missile. It will definitely go more than 1000km. But if they can achieve the precision they are aiming for and really do what we have been told it will do, it is going to be a game changer through and through.

 

[Sanchez]

As he also said that this is a hypersonic weapon; one of the prerequisites of hypersonic missiles is the fact that they manoeuvre during their midcourse flight making it difficult for exo atmospheric and similar interceptors to hit them.

It isn't. I think he's just playing on the audience and the "hypersonic" buzzword. Majority of laymen don't know what an HGV or terminal course correction is, they only think that the weapon is so fast that it cannot be intercepted.

All MRBMs (+1000km range) reach hypersonic speeds by their nature and nearly all of them go twice as fast. Being hypersonic doesn't mean anything. İkinci knows this, but his audience doesn't.

 

[Kaan Azman]

I don’t usually like guesswork. Especially after Roketsan MD Murat İkinci mentioning this missile to fly at hypersonic speeds and hitting it’s target at or above 5Mach speed.

As he also said that this is a hypersonic weapon; one of the prerequisites of hypersonic missiles is the fact that they manoeuvre during their midcourse flight making it difficult for exo atmospheric and similar interceptors to hit them.

That means it will deviate from a straight line eating away from it‘s otherwise total range.

If it were following a purely ballistic trajectory, I could guess within a tolerance, it’s terminal speed. I can tell you that it would be around just above Mach 1.

But it is going to hit the target at 5mach. That means it has to carry fuel to be used at terminal phase. That also means it is not going to use all it’s fuel to go further.
So Tayfun’s range is only known by the designers. We will be told when they test it.

This missile will be a real force multiplier weapon. Forget how far it can go. It is a 7200kg 10m long 0.938m diameter monster missile. It will definitely go more than 1000km. But if they can achieve the precision they are aiming for and really do what we have been told it will do, it is going to be a game changer through and through.

Hypersonic speed still feels vague for me

Is it hypersonic at midcourse when it adjusts its trajectory to be quasi-ballistic? This is not uncommon and doesn't always mean the missile is hypersonic at terminal stage

Is it hypersonic at not only midcourse but also terminal stage? You need either high hypersonic midcourse speed (>Mach 10) or some sort of secondary ignition (See YJ-20 and Fatah-1/2)

Judging by Tayfun Block 4's size, I think it comfortably steps into the MRBM realm at least on the lower half

 

[uçuyorum]

Hypersonic used to mean hypersonic cruise missile or glide vehicle, not ballistic because ballistics were indeed hypersonic in some sense. İt's sustained maneuverable hypersonic air breathing missiles and hybrids that became a big deal few years back. İt could be that the warhead can be air breathing and maneuver in terminal stage in Cenk etc

 

[Strong AI]

It isn't. I think he's just playing on the audience and the "hypersonic" buzzword. Majority of laymen don't know what an HGV or terminal course correction is, they only think that the weapon is so fast that it cannot be intercepted.

All MRBMs (+1000km range) reach hypersonic speeds by their nature and nearly all of them go twice as fast. Being hypersonic doesn't mean anything. İkinci knows this, but his audience doesn't.

If you are right then why is he only talking about Block 4 like that. He could have said that about TAYFUN in general. No?

 

[MonteCarlo]

It isn't. I think he's just playing on the audience and the "hypersonic" buzzword. Majority of laymen don't know what an HGV or terminal course correction is, they only think that the weapon is so fast that it cannot be intercepted.

All MRBMs (+1000km range) reach hypersonic speeds by their nature and nearly all of them go twice as fast. Being hypersonic doesn't mean anything. İkinci knows this, but his audience doesn't.Tafyun block 4 being able to maneuver and hit the target at hypersonic speeds that is definetly not something all MRBMs can do.

Murat ikinci specifically addressed this claim: "All ballistic missiles can reach speeds over 5 Mach. What is important here is going over 5 Mach during the course and striking the target over 5 Mach. When we look from this perspective Tayfun block 4 is a hypersonic ballistic missile"

 

[Kaan Azman]

If it has a second pulse for terminal hypersonic velocity, think about the possibilities when you integrate terminal guidance. Probably one shot and one kill for ships.