TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Zafer]

I believe the KAAN will fly between July 7 and 8, which is exactly when the NATO summit is taking place in Turkey.
The flight is intended to be seen by the very people who are likely to be provoked by it as a show of force.

It is more impactful when things are done earlier rather than later.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I see it differently, and who’s to say the aircraft hasn’t already been flown behind closed doors? The point is – and this is, of course, just speculation on my part – that in July all NATO member states will be coming to Turkey for the NATO summit. What could be more symbolic than flying the latest prototype in front of the heads of state and the international press – you don’t get free publicity on this scale very often.

The next NATO summit in Turkey will probably not take place for another 8 to 10 years.

 

[2033]

I see it differently, and who’s to say the aircraft hasn’t already been flown behind closed doors? The point is – and this is, of course, just speculation on my part –

Is it possible to secretly fly a 20-meter-long giant that roars through the skies with its two F110 engines? That’s impossible.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Impossible?
How did the Americans keep the B-21 Raider and many other aircraft under wraps? No one knew that a successor to the B-2 Spirit was being built, let alone tested.

Unofficial test flights, or test flights closed to the public, are nothing out of the ordinary; both Hürjet aircraft have already completed hundreds of test flights.
They haven’t publicised every single test flight either.

 

[uçuyorum]

Impossible?
How did the Americans keep the B-21 Raider and many other aircraft under wraps? No one knew that a successor to the B-2 Spirit was being built, let alone tested.

Unofficial test flights, or test flights closed to the public, are nothing out of the ordinary; both Hürjet aircraft have already completed hundreds of test flights.
They haven’t publicised every single test flight either.

America has facilities far from residential areas. TUSAS is not

 

[Spitfire9]

America has facilities far from residential areas. TUSAS is not

US has area 51 in Nevada, I believe about 40km x 40km closed air space with restricted ground access in a desert area.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Regarding this 42000lbf thrust GUCHAN palaver:

Let us look at what the most prominent factors are in a Turbofan that matters related to higher thrust.
Basically and most commonly you can increase thrust of a turbofan engine by:

1. increasing airflow.
a) To do that yo can increase rotational speed of engine, ie RPM. But that would result in excessive wear and could cause engine to collapse if pushed to extreme revs. Even If it doesn’t collapse straight away the engine life will be exponentially reduced.
b) You can increase fan diameter to increase air flow. But this doesn’t seem to be the case in Guchan.
c) You can increase engine diameter to allow more air to be pushed through the core. But this is not the case here.

2. increase TIT. The higher the energy released from nozzle the higher the thrust obtained. But for a given engine, there are limits to how high you can go with TIT. Material science too has limits for a given engine diameter. Also high TIT means more fuel burnt.

3. Bypass ratio. More air through bypass channels will increase thrust. But this means a lot more than the 0.68:1 ratio quoted for this engine.

When TEI is struggling with these details how on earth the people in MOD R&D overcame these difficulties?

A department of Turkish MOD, set up 12-13 years ago for R&D purposes, with no manufacturing base, that started to show itself only last 3-4 years, comes up with a turbofan engine that looks like a F110 copy and claim to have attained 42000lbf thrust level from that engine. Yet there are no video proof of that happening.
If you are coming up with such an ostentatious and arguable claim, you have to bring to the table proofs of your claim.

We believed them last time with the Hayalet and Gazap bombs; becuase they provided the related video proofs of the field and lab tests they carried out for these munitions.
So where are the proofs for Guchan and Yildirimhan?

It is stated that GüçHan will only be a technology demonstration model and will not go into mass production. And it is also stated that the design of the compressor, especially in the cold sector, will change. If this is the case, this project is starting to seem quite meaningless to me.

I'm very curious what technology TEI doesn't produce or possess that they plan to prove. Furthermore, TEI is only just beginning to work on afterburner physics with the TF-10000. When did these guys learn the fundamentals of afterburners, which TEI is only just beginning to understand?

 

[Anmdt]

It is stated that GüçHan will only be a technology demonstration model and will not go into mass production. And it is also stated that the design of the compressor, especially in the cold sector, will change. If this is the case, this project is starting to seem quite meaningless to me.

I'm very curious what technology TEI doesn't produce or possess that they plan to prove. Furthermore, TEI is only just beginning to work on afterburner physics with the TF-10000. When did these guys learn the fundamentals of afterburners, which TEI is only just beginning to understand?

Six prototypes are a little too much for a technology demonstrator - as per claimed by MSB's spokesperson admiral.

MSB's "civilian only" R&D department also stated that they don't pursue commercial goals, but merely focusing at technological development of key technologies. If so, why wouldn't they go for developing variable by-pass ratios, stealth nozzles, IR suppression or TVC? None of their statements, nor the goals make any bit of sense.

It is a sham, they are running a circus.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Six prototypes are a little too much for a technology demonstrator - as per claimed by MSB's spokesperson admiral.

MSB's "civilian only" R&D department also stated that they don't pursue commercial goals, but merely focusing at technological development of key technologies. If so, why wouldn't they go for developing variable by-pass ratios, stealth nozzles, IR suppression or TVC? None of their statements, nor the goals make any bit of sense.

It is a sham, they are running a circus.

Hope for the best expect the worst.
If they would have come forward with 20000lbf engine i would have said its easier achievable, it would complement our engine portfolio and provide alternative for actual aircraft in development without putting to much work on TEI. But noooo can't even translate properly (4 Rocket engines on turbofan)

 

[Yasar_TR]

America has facilities far from residential areas. TUSAS is not

Tusas KahramanKazan facilities are in Saray, on the left corner of above map. Out in the sticks, and away from major towns.
Also just south of Saray, towards bottom where the air museum is, there is Etimesgut airport. To the right top is the Ankara Esenboga International airport. Flight path of many airliners would be crossing close to Saray, sounds of jet engines being a normal occurrence. Unless publicised it wouldn’t be easy to spot a test flight, barring real dedicated fans or photographers that have made camp close by 24/7.

 

[Zafer]

Spying on TAI flights can be considered spying unless journalists are invited and perpetrators can be sued for treason.

 

[Anmdt]

Hope for the best expect the worst.
If they would have come forward with 20000lbf engine i would have said its easier achievable, it would complement our engine portfolio and provide alternative for actual aircraft in development without putting to much work on TEI. But noooo can't even translate properly (4 Rocket engines on turbofan)

They don't need to make an engine, mate. That's the point. They have access to factories, got handful of engines running but at the end of life and about to be scrapped. They could have made of use of them:

Target drones - engine got life but one-time use only
OWA-UAV's - yeah,
IR supression studies,
RC optimization studies, nozzle design.

 

[Sanchez]

Unofficial test flights, or test flights closed to the public, are nothing out of the ordinary; both Hürjet aircraft have already completed hundreds of test flights.
They haven’t publicised every single test flight either.

Unless publicised it wouldn’t be easy to spot a test flight, barring real dedicated fans or photographers that have made camp close by 24/7.

We do have spotters online that do track those flights. Usually not supported by videos because they are patriotic kids, but we hear about most flights.

Spying on TAI flights can be considered spying unless journalists are invited and perpetrators can be sued for treason.

Tricky subject, it's open space. Everyone has a right to photograph open space.

 

[Zafer]

We do have spotters online that do track those flights. Usually not supported by videos because they are patriotic kids, but we hear about most flights.

Tricky subject, it's open space. Everyone has a right to photograph open space.

The space is open the subject is not, it is in the open just because there is no way to fully hide it. But it can take off in restricted space and can go up quickly before it becomes visible to ordinary eyes and only specialty few cameras can see it. On top of it photographing something that is meant to be hidden is prohibited, you can't go and explicitly take pictures of the inside of a train station without explicit permission. You can't include the image of a building in a movie without permission.They can find you and sue you for harming national interest, confiscate your camera gear as an evidence of crime. They can beat you up when they see you and other citizens will help them beat you harder like it is their duty as a citizen.

 

[Sanchez]

The space is open the subject is not, it is in the open just because there is no way to fully hide it. But it can take off in restricted space and can go up quickly before it becomes visible to ordinary eyes and only specialty few cameras can see it. On top of it photographing something that is meant to be hidden is prohibited, you can't go and explicitly take pictures of the inside of a train station without explicit permission. You can't include the image of a building in a movie without permission.They can find you and sue you for harming national interest, confiscate your camera gear as an evidence of crime. They can beat you up when they see you and other citizens will help them beat you harder like it is their duty as a citizen.

Same spotters can also make out the difference of the sound of F404s, F110s or RRs on G6000s. Rest simply doesn't happen. Photographing an aircraft flying outside of any government owned land or landmark simply is not a crime, yet at least.

 

[Zafer]

Same spotters can also make out the difference of the sound of F404s, F110s or RRs on G6000s. Rest simply doesn't happen. Photographing an aircraft flying outside of any government owned land or landmark simply is not a crime, yet at least.

Publishing it can make you a criminal if you are not allowed to, which can be arranged.

 

[Kitra]

Tricky subject, it's open space. Everyone has a right to photograph open space.

That is plainly wrong in almost every country.

Objects, sites and facilities in plain sight, even for the general public, can be forbidden to photograph/publish. Your common civilian airports often fall under protected object status. MIlitary airport definitely falls under protected object status in Turkey.

 

[Passenger]

That is plainly wrong in almost every country.

Objects, sites and facilities in plain sight, even for the general public, can be forbidden to photograph/publish. Your common civilian airports often fall under protected object status. MIlitary airport definitely falls under protected object status in Turkey.

Same in US/China