TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Zafer]

true you dont need civilian certification like with TS1400 but it still needs to fulfill the requirements and acceptance test of the TurAf and they wont use the engine unless its finished and safe.

Of course, they can possibly delegate some of the test work to TAI test pilots too.

 

[Oublious]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2061104907042582995

Chance that it go end like FCAS?

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2061104907042582995

Chance that it go end like FCAS?

The source is bloody Torygraph, those twats would say anything to make Labour look bad. This isn't worth taking seriously.

 

[Sanchez]

The source is bloody Torygraph, those twats would say anything to make Labour look bad. This isn't worth taking seriously.

This is what some Brit pundits have been saying today indeed, but British procurement and development issues are pretty much endemic. Would you be surprised? I wouldn't. But we need to say, this is not UK stopping development or anything like that; it's them confirming they are not expecting deliveries of the jets until late 2030s.

Kaan still remains the only ball in the game, it'll start eating into other pies from 2030s if we can handle it.

 

[YeşilVatan]

This is what some Brit pundits have been saying today indeed, but British procurement and development issues are pretty much endemic. Would you be surprised? I wouldn't. But we need to say, this is not UK stopping development or anything like that; it's them confirming they are not expecting deliveries of the jets until late 2030s.

Kaan still remains the only ball in the game, it'll start eating into other pies from 2030s if we can handle it.

I think Koreans should be counted but they have a subsystem dependency problem (engines afaik). They don't really seem to mind though.

 

[Saithan]

I do not agree that KAAN is going to eat into any pies. EF is still there and still a good jet. If they manage to upgrade it as planned it will still be able to do what it needs to.

Also keep in mind how battlefields have changed, so as long as EF can deliver stormshadow safely and other munition, it'll do just fine.

Mass production of drones and taking out critical infrastructure per what's going on or seen from Iran-Israel-US, Russia -Ukraine war is going to be the main issue.

 

[Burberryswine]

If production F110 engines do not get delivered in time the TF35k engines can be employed on a fast track and there would not be any delay in Kaan production. If the F110 engines get delivered then TF35k engine can wait until 2029-2030 to be used in flight tests and 2031 in production of later block Kaan batches.

A lower performing ejection seat is still good at 80-90 % survival rate. Kaan is a twin engine after all and has autopilot to enhance safety on top of it which includes ground collision detection and all. The plane's survival capacity can compensate for the seat's 10-20% lack of ability compared to competition.

The thing some are missing is we already have some spare engines, idk how many but after we are done with the engines on prototypes like the P0, P1 and P2 we can use them for 3 production B10 aircraft, we could also use our own spares we bought 48 engines with peace of Onyx 4, we are buying another 48 with Peace of Onyx 5 30 engines from PoO 4 are installed and 18 spares, and 40 engines from PoO will be installed with 8 spares thats 13 aircraft, and 10 engines were received for prototypes we can use 6 of them after a testing of those airframes are done until 2028 (P0, P1 and P2) if we get done with testing of those prototypes (P0 is already done) that would make it 16 aircraft that is pretty close to the planned 20 aircraft i would like hearing you guyses thoughts on this too.

 

[Zafer]

The thing some are missing is we already have some spare engines, idk how many but after we are done with the engines on prototypes like the P0, P1 and P2 we can use them for 3 production B10 aircraft, we could also use our own spares we bought 48 engines with peace of Onyx 4, we are buying another 48 with Peace of Onyx 5 30 engines from PoO 4 are installed and 18 spares, and 40 engines from PoO will be installed with 8 spares thats 13 aircraft, and 10 engines were received for prototypes we can use 6 of them after a testing of those airframes are done until 2028 (P0, P1 and P2) if we get done with testing of those prototypes (P0 is already done) that would make it 16 aircraft that is pretty close to the planned 20 aircraft i would like hearing you guyses thoughts on this too.

F16 engines are supposed to be single engines so their usability on Kaan is questionable. We can probably make like 10 Kaan with available engines. It does bring an initial capability but our best interest lies in bringing the TF35k engine into the picture. I think the ability of the US making and delivering some of the stuff like engines and radars and everything that uses critical minerals will become questionable for the next half decade. Remembering the F35 deliveries without radars they may not be able to deliver engines either. Countries will probably want to keep supplies for themselves rather than selling them to others in the same way they saved vaccines for themselves during the Covid-19 pandemic. So nothing can be assured in the next decade. We can only make backup plans like going back to earlier generation technologies that do not require the unavailable rare materials and supplies or making few of the products that rely on them.

 

[Pokemonte13]

F16 engines are supposed to be single engines so their usability on Kaan is questionable. We can probably make like 10 Kaan with available engines. It does bring an initial capability but our best interest lies in bringing the TF35k engine into the picture. I think the ability of the US making and delivering some of the stuff like engines and radars and everything that uses critical minerals will become questionable for the next half decade. Remembering the F35 deliveries without radars they may not be able to deliver engines either. Countries will probably want to keep supplies for themselves rather than selling them to others in the same way they saved vaccines for themselves during the Covid-19 pandemic. So nothing can be assured in the next decade. We can only make backup plans like going back to earlier generation technologies that do not require the unavailable rare materials and supplies or making few of the products that rely on them.

the engines of our f16 are not usable on kaan no matter what you do. We have enough engines for our prototypes. Apg 85 has delays because its to big for the f35 not because of production delays.

 

[Spitfire9]

From what I have read on an English military aviation website, I believe that the planned UK funds for GCAP were 'ring fenced' in the future defence development/equipment budget but after the current government was elected it removed that protection. The consequence is that the UK cannot confirm the funds for GCAP until its Defence Investment Plan (which was due in 2025) is decided. Interim funding to get full development started was given. It is expected that those funds will run out this month or next month.

Regarding an alternative to GE F414 for KF-21, ROK launched a development programme last year. India is currently negotiating with SAFRAN to design a 110kN-130kN class engine for its AMCA.

10 years from now Turkiye and ROK may be able to supply advanced fighters that do not require US approval for export due to their engines, Turkiye probably sooner. India possibly more like 15-20 years from now.

I guess that KAAN will have the non-US engined 5G market to itself for many years. ROK needs to modify KF-21 to incorporate an IWB and develop a new engine. India, always painfully slow, needs to pay for SAFRAN (or otherwise RR) to develop a new engine to be produced in India and needs to modify the design of its AMCA for the new, more powerful engine.

 

[Pokemonte13]

From what I have read on an English military aviation website, I believe that the planned UK funds for GCAP were 'ring fenced' in the future defence development/equipment budget but after the current government was elected it removed that protection. The consequence is that the UK cannot confirm the funds for GCAP until its Defence Investment Programme (which was due mid-2025) is decided. Interim funding to get full development started was given. It is expected that those funds will run out this month or next month.

Regarding an alternative to GE F414 for KF-21, ROK launched a development programme last year. India is currently negotiating with SAFRAN to design a 110kN-130kN class engine for its AMCA.

10 years from now Turkiye and ROK may be able to supply advanced fighters that do not require US approval for export due to their engines, Turkiye probably sooner. India possibly more like 15-20 years from now.

I guess that KAAN will have the non-US engined 5G market to itself for many years. ROK needs to modify KF-21 to incorporate an IWB and develop a new engine. India, always painfully slow, needs to pay for SAFRAN (or otherwise RR) to develop a new engine to be produced in India and needs to modify the design of its AMCA for the new, more powerful engine.

I wonder if the indians will have full ip rights or just a unrestrictive user license and local production or whatever they come up with as i expect the indians will just front the money for safran to develop the engine but doubtful that the french would give them all the rights to the engine. Maybe even AMCA get cancelled for a ''joint'' french-indian 6th generation fighter jet.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Forget about other 5th gen fighter jets.
Let us look at our own:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2060790887655842011

If Avionot source is to be believed, the first flight of the P1 Kaan has been postponed to 30th August 2026.
If true, that is like taking the piss with all defence industry followers.

Anybody out there that can contradict and refute or corroborate please feel free to add.

 

[Spitfire9]

Forget about other 5th gen fighter jets.
Let us look at our own:

Sure, but the future of KAAN is affected by the future of other 5G fighters. If 200 KAAN were sold for export in the next 10 years, a lot of funds could be generated for further development.

 

[Pokemonte13]

i wouldn't concentrate to much on a certain date but it will definitely fly within the coming months.

 

[fushkee]

It means 3-4 months delay at first sight.
anyway, we will see the dark fighter painting on her or she will be the same as in P0?

 

[Pokemonte13]

It means 3-4 months delay at first sight.
anyway, we will see the dark fighter painting on her or she will be the same as in P0?

No ram coating but nothing certain

 

[Zafer]

What matters at this point is how complete the P1 will be of which we have no clue. Also I have seen the mention of the introduction of 2 additional prototypes within the year instead of one, that is P1 P2 and P3 in all. Needs to be confirmed. Will be great if true.

 

[MonteCarlo]

What matters at this point is how complete the P1 will be of which we have no clue. Also I have seen the mention of the introduction of 2 additional prototypes within the year instead of one, that is P1 P2 and P3 in all. Needs to be confirmed. Will be great if true.

AFAIK P1 will have all the avionics like Karat, Toygun, and Murad-600, APU etc so should be pretty complete on that regard. What is left is data fusion and aerodynamic performance. That is on Kaan's side of course individual sensors should br matured too

 

[Zafer]

AFAIK P1 will have all the avionics like Karat, Toygun, and Murad-600, APU etc so should be pretty complete on that regard. What is left is data fusion and aerodynamic performance

Our aviation industry has been quick in making many of the products they have made. In the best case scenario P1 can join the Airforce after a few months of bootcamp, I am dreaming.

Imagine P1 P2 and P3 join the force mid 2027, only takes some daredevil topgun pilots to take up the challenge.

If they can get the hardware right from the start they can upgrade while the planes fly in service.

 

[Samba]

I think Koreans should be counted but they have a subsystem dependency problem (engines afaik). They don't really seem to mind though.

Kf21 is an American fighter not Korean. Every sub system is American. Koreans cannot sell it to anyone USA does not approve