The Two Preambles

[Saiyan0321]

The Two Preambles
by
Saiyan0321​

As Pak-Turk relations expand to new heights, the people to people contact also promises to witness further increase. For this purpose, it has become very important to understand the structure and nature of Turkey and the Turkish people. Contrary to popular belief, Turkey is not an Islamist state nor can become an Islamist state and the best way to understand this, without getting the cultural shock of seeing the Instagram of Turkish actors and actresses, is to read their Preamble.

A Preamble is an introductory statement in a constitution, statute or act, and it explains the basis and objective of such a document. It is the spirit of the constitution and its reading is absolutely necessary to understand exactly how the constitution functions and through that how the state functions. In PLD 2015 SC 401 the court held

“It is the will of the people of Pakistan to establish an order.”

In Mehmood Khan Achakzai vs Federation of Pakistan PLD 1997 SC 426 the court held,

“It has to be read for the purpose of proper interpretation of the Constitution in order to find out as to what scheme of governance has been contemplated by the people of Pakistan”

In State vs Zia Ur Rehman PLD 1973 SC 49 the court interpreted,

“The Constitution will serve the same purpose as its preamble.”

Another case where such was held ‘Mubashar Hussain vs Federation of Pakistan PLD 2010 SC 265’,

“The Preamble shows the will of the people and is key to understanding the Constitution.”

The Indian Supreme Court defined the Preamble in the case of Ashok Kumar Thakur vs Union of India,



“..When a constitutional provision is interpreted, the cardinal rule is to look to the Preamble to the Constitution as the guiding star … The preamble embodies the hopes and aspirations of the people…”



With the above, it can be understood that a Preamble plays a very important role in the constitutional setup of a nation and envisages the national thinking of the people. It reflects the social contract between the state and the people where the people provide to the state the idea and architectural plans in creating a system of governance that they desire. It is the best way to understand the desire of the people of that country and through that, a window into the mind of the nation.

Let us now look into the two Constitutional Preambles of the two countries to better understand for, both sides, the mindset of the people.

The Pakistani Preamble was formed with the 1973 Constitution and it declared nine commands by the people of Pakistan to their representatives. It is the following;

“Whereas sovereignty over the entire Universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone, and the authority to be exercised by the people of Pakistan within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;
And whereas it is the will of the people of Pakistan to establish an order—
Wherein the State shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people;
Wherein the principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, shall be fully observed;
Wherein the Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah;
Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities freely to profess and practice their religions and develop their cultures;
Wherein the territories now included in or in accession with Pakistan and such other territories as may hereafter be included in or accede to Pakistan shall form a Federation wherein the units will be autonomous with such boundaries and limitations on their powers and authority as may be prescribed;
Wherein shall be guaranteed fundamental rights, including equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality;
Wherein adequate provision shall be made to safeguard the legitimate interests of minorities and backward and depressed classes;
Wherein the independence of the judiciary shall be fully secured;
Wherein the integrity of the territories of the Federation, its independence and all its rights, including its sovereign rights on land, sea and air, shall be safeguarded;
So that the people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honored place amongst the nations of the World and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity:
Now, therefore, we, the people of Pakistan,
Conscious of our responsibility before Almighty Allah and men;
Cognizant of the sacrifices made by the people in the cause of Pakistan;
Faithful to the declaration made by the Founder of Pakistan, Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, that Pakistanwould be a democratic State based on Islamic Principles of social justice;
Dedicated to the preservation of democracy achieved by the unremitting struggle of the people against oppression and tyranny;

Inspired by the resolve to protect our national and political unity and solidarity by creating an egalitarian society through a new order;

Do hereby, through our representatives in the National Assembly, adopt, enact and give to ourselves, this Constitution.”

The above displays the will of the Pakistani people to create an Islamic nation which was to be a parliamentary democracy and this is how the Pakistani people and the Pakistani courts have interpreted the Preamble. The above captures the essence of the Pakistani people, their desire and their command, where they truly hold dear to Islamic provisions above.

Let us glance into the Turkish Preamble. The Turkish constitution was ratified on 7th November 1982 and this constitution was ratified by a referendum where 91.4% voted in favor of the Constitution. So if we say that the Constitution 1982, both in action and in words, was the demand of the people, then it would not be wrong. The following is the Turkish Preamble;

“In line with the concept of nationalism and the reforms and principles introduced by the founder of the Republic of Turkey, Atatürk, the immortal leader and the unrivalled hero, this Constitution, which affirms the eternal existence of the Turkish nation and motherland and the indivisible unity of the Turkish state, embodies;

The determination to safeguard the everlasting existence, prosperity and material and spiritual well-being of the Republic of Turkey, and to attain the standards of contemporary civilization as an honourable member with equal rights of the family of world nations;

The understanding of the absolute supremacy of the will of the nation and of the fact that sovereignty is vested fully and unconditionally in the Turkish nation and that no individual or body empowered to exercise this sovereignty in the name of the nation shall deviate from liberal democracy and the legal system instituted according to its requirements;

The principle of the separation of powers, which does not imply an order of precedence among the organs of state, but refers solely to the exercising of certain state powers and discharging of duties which are limited to cooperation and division of functions, and which accepts the supremacy of the Constitution and the law;

The recognition that no protection shall be accorded to an activity contrary to Turkish national interests, the principle of the indivisibility of the existence of Turkey with its state and territory, Turkish historical and moral values or the nationalism, principles, reforms and modernism of Atatürk and that, as required by the principle of secularism, there shall be no interference whatsoever by sacred religious feelings in state affairs and politics; the acknowledgment that it is the birthright of every Turkish citizen to lead an honourable life and to develop his or her material and spiritual assets under the aegis of national culture, civilization and the rule of law, through the exercise of the fundamental rights and freedoms set forth in this Constitution in conformity with the requirements of equality and social justice;

The recognition that all Turkish citizens are united in national honour and pride, in national joy and grief, in their rights and duties regarding national existence, in blessings and in burdens, and in every manifestation of national life, and that they have the right to demand a peaceful life based on absolute respect for one another’s rights and freedoms, mutual love and fellowship and the desire for and belief in “Peace at home, peace in the world”.

This Constitution, which is to be embraced with the ideas, beliefs, and resolutions it embodies below should be interpreted and implemented accordingly, thus commanding respect for, and absolute loyalty to, its letter and spirit.

Is entrusted by the Turkish nation to the patriotism and nationalism of its democracy-loving sons and daughters.”



The above gives us a glimpse into the mindset of our Turkish brethren that for one, they are proud of the democratic principles of the country and have repeatedly declared themselves as the architects of their destiny by declaring that the people hold sovereignty in the hands of the Turkish nation. This is opposite to the Islamic nature of the Pakistani Preamble which declares the nation as vicegerent rather than masters of any sovereignty. Infact their very first sentence speaks of Turkish nationalism as introduced by Mustafa Ataturk and they have declared that the constitutional state of Turkey shall be run in accordance to the principles of their founding father. We have not done that and where we have stated as such, it is a loose definition which can swing either way. The most interesting and stark difference between the two Preambles is the fact that the Turkish Preamble is extremely secular and declares its secular aspirations that all religions are equal in the eyes of the state and all Turks have the right to live as such and specifically barred the state in interfering in religious affairs. This is not what the Pakistani Preamble states since the Preamble declares itself Islamic and declares its intent that it will interfere in religious affairs for a better Islamic society.

This is covered within the two constitutions as well as in Turkish Article 2;

“The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public peace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights; loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the Preamble”

Whereas our Article 2 holds;

“Islam to be the state religion.”

If we imagine the two Preambles as two individuals from their respective nations, we will come to see both of them having the personality, aspiration and mindset of the majority of the people of their state. Some have come to argue that Turkey is not Left wing but Right wing since Leftist parties have been losing for the last 50 years or so however that is deception because the Constitution was formed during the stated period and has seen amendments during that stated period as well yet continues in its secular sanctity. The Right wing in Turkey is not religious right, as it is in Pakistan, but conservative nationalism. This difference is important to understand so that we can understand the person we are about to call a brother.

Preambles are a mirror of the people from where you can view a general understanding of the nation. They hold the personality of the nation and the personality of the state itself. We, Pakistanis have this tendency to arrogantly declare absolute understanding of other nations simply based on religious similarity however the concept of brotherhood in Islam was not an end but the beginning of a journey of understanding so that two Muslim brothers may talk and truly get to understand the other. So let us start understanding our Turkish brothers through the wisdom of their Preamble and ask them, not to be more Islamic but what do they truly think or believe and how do they view themselves and others? And through that create a promise of a brotherhood that will be based on concrete grounds.

 

[Saiyan0321]

I wrote the above but didnt know where to post it, so i posted it here.

@T-123456 @Saithan @Webslave @Cabatli_53 @ANMDT How much do you guys feel your preamble described you?

same question to others. Do you feel your Preamble is an essence of how you feel yourself and how you see your country men.

@Nilgiri you live in US so let me give you yours

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


and ofcourse @Joe Shearer for India

WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR[2] DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens
JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
EQUALITY of status and of opportunity;
and to promote among them all FRATERNITY
assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity [3] of the Nation;
IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this 26th day of November 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.

 

[VCheng]

“The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public peace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights; loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the Preamble”

That is a good post, but now the real question is how long the present form of the Turkish Constitution lasts under their version of the General Zia-ul-Haqism process currently under way.

 

[TR_123456]

How much do you guys feel your preamble described you?

It describes the principles i live by.

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

I wrote the above but didnt know where to post it, so i posted it here.

@T-123456 @Saithan @Webslave @Cabatli_53 @ANMDT How much do you guys feel your preamble described you?

same question to others. Do you feel your Preamble is an essence of how you feel yourself and how you see your country men.

I think I agree with all of it. It describes the Turkish nation's essence quite well. That said, I think in today's world the meaning of "Liberal Democracy" has changed. The Turkish people love democracy. Having the option to drink alcohol and wear whatever you want are basic rights which Turks love... Even many Turkish Islamists wouldn't want such rights to disappear. However Turks hate modern day "Liberalism". This is because it is no longer something which is good. LGBT for example, is seen negatively by most Turks as it is something which is completely against our morals and values. So these days the "liberal democracy" part of our preamble does not hold. But the rest of it absolutely does.

 

[TR_123456]

That is a good post, but now the real question is how long the present form of the Turkish Constitution lasts under their version of the General Zia-ul-Haqism process currently under way.

It will last as long as we the people shall live.
Nobody can change my country's constitution to the extreme,the people will not allow it.
As you probably know the current government attempted it a couple of times but failed every time.

 

[VCheng]

It will last as long as we the people shall live.
Nobody can change my country's constitution to the extreme,the people will not allow it.
As you probably know the current government attempted it a couple of times but failed every time.

... ... and it is still in power, and has not stopped trying. I saw this process unfold in Pakistan decades ago, and the similarities are uncanny. I'd give it a few more years and then evaluate.

 

[TR_123456]

... ... and it is still in power, and has not stopped trying. I saw this process unfold in Pakistan decades ago, and the similarities are uncanny. I'd give it a few more years and then evaluate.

Lets do that but come on,two different people and principles,you really think change in my country is possible?
Remember the coup attempt where all different opinions became one?
You see that ever happening in Pakistan?

 

[VCheng]

Lets do that but come on,two different people and principles,you really think change in my country is possible?
Remember the coup attempt where all different opinions became one?
You see that ever happening in Pakistan?

Let me ask you this: In what ways has Turkey changed since Erdogan assumed power?

 

[TR_123456]

Let me ask you this: In what ways has Turkey changed since Erdogan assumed power?

It has changed alot in many ways but the secular ruling has not changed.
It is still the Turkish republic,nobody can change that.
I know what you mean,my country looks more conservative but its not,its just a fase where the conservatives come out more.

 

[VCheng]

It has changed alot in many ways but the secular ruling has not changed.
It is still the Turkish republic,nobody can change that.
I know what you mean,my country looks more conservative but its not,its just a fase where the conservatives come out more.

That is how the process starts, slowly. But the gradual change is undeniable. The old adage about how to boil a frog alive applies here. I admire Turkey and Iran as being the only two Muslim countries that have never been colonized throughout recorded history, but both are struggling with their religious identities in their own ways. Turkey is better placed than Iran, but both are likely to continue veering down this gradual path of religiosity until the tipping point is reached, inevitably.

 

[Saithan]

That is why the 1982 constitution is so nationalistic and secular. There are too many who’re willing to vote based on religious conviction than using their brain.

The constitution from the founding of the republic was much more free in it’s wording, but as soon as MKA passed away the power struggle started.

Educational level is still not very high in Turkey, but as it grows people will be able to think clearer.

The current government has had a lot of tailwind, but that is to be seen in the light of unfair treatments such as girls with scarves being denied entry to universities and such.

With the issues Turkey has now, RTE has no choice by go nationalism look at his rhetoric or the lack thereof of his islamic rhetoric.

Head of Diyanet has interfered too much in politics and opened his mouth too much.

MHP is literally holding the current government in a terminal stage, while AKP and RTE seeks more coalition partners, MHP talks publicly against it, and even against early elections.

The preamble of 1982 is proof of this never ending struggle against religious tutelage. And while people enjoy the freedom to express and practice their religion, they are dumb enough to dream of Islamic state.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri you live in US so let me give you yours

One slight problem

I'm in the better half of North America known as Canada

Canada's constitution is unique as it has two charters/acts amalgamated into one (one by confederation in 1867 and the other under more modern guise in 1982).

The 1867 one has a more traditional preamble:

=============
Whereas the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick have expressed their Desire to be federally united into One Dominion under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, with a Constitution similar in Principle to that of the United Kingdom:

And whereas such a Union would conduce to the Welfare of the Provinces and promote the Interests of the British Empire:

And whereas on the Establishment of the Union by Authority of Parliament it is expedient, not only that the Constitution of the Legislative Authority in the Dominion be provided for, but also that the Nature of the Executive Government therein be declared:

And whereas it is expedient that Provision be made for the eventual Admission into the Union of other Parts of British North America

=============

"Canada" above refers to what we call Ontario today (Upper Canada) and Quebec (Lower Canada) which were united into the province of Canada in 1841 by the British Parliament.

The 1982 one (that refers and draws upon the 1867 in many places) has a very simple preamble:

=============
Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law

=============

It must be said nowadays Canadian public more or less have their more useful defacto preambles in the parlance and recent memory (the famous switch of the flag from old to new in 1965 can be seen in footage):

@UkroTurk Molson^^

The constitution itself is mostly a larger somewhat ranting commentary on 3 things:

- The rules, practices and customs of the greatest activity known to mankind that is (ice) Hockey

- The rules, practices and customs of the 2nd greatest activity that is Curling

- Being polite, pronouncing and spelling things correctly, and setting a good (but futile) standard on these for the boorish bigger brother further south of us... and what best retorts ought to be employed should they get unnecessarily critical about Canadian proclivities.

@Yankeestani @Joe Shearer @xenon5434 @ANMDT @Dante80 @KAL-EL

 

[Deliorman]

... ... and it is still in power, and has not stopped trying. I saw this process unfold in Pakistan decades ago, and the similarities are uncanny. I'd give it a few more years and then evaluate.

It’s not right to compare Turkey in 2020 to “Pakistan decades ago”... or ever. We talk about completely different countries and nations who have different cultures and history. No matter how many delusional people that write “Pak- Turk zindabad” or “Two states- one Nation Pakistan-Turkey” you see online you can’t really find much things in common between the countries.

Turkey will never be an Islamic Republic the way you have seen it in Pakistan or Iran. It is just not possible because the huge majority of the people will never support it. In the age of internet and global communications it gets harder and harder to sell people such failed concepts when they can see how normal people live and what music they listen and what movies they watch with two clicks. Like many other places on Earth religion is dying out in Turkey too especially amongst young people. Turkey in 2020 is less religious than ever in its history and you can thank Erdogan for much if it.

 

[Saiyan0321]

- The rules, practices and customs of the greatest activity known to mankind that is (ice) Hockey

- The rules, practices and customs of the 2nd greatest activity that is Curling

- Being polite, pronouncing and spelling things correctly, and setting a good (but futile) standard on these for the boorish bigger brother further south of us... and what best retorts ought to be employed should they get unnecessarily critical about Canadian proclivities.

Hahahaha

Canada really is a heaven then while we all are squabbling on each and every word and its meaning both political and religious in the constitution.

 

[Nilgiri]

Hahahaha

Canada really is a heaven then while we all are squabbling on each and every word and its meaning both political and religious in the constitution.

You know what, it is Canada and US more than anywhere else that gives me hope for the future between Pakistan and India.

There was a huge war and animosity period (though of course it didnt get augmented by a religion veneer) dating from the 1760s to around end of 19th century between these two "sides" with extensive territorial loss for British America in 1776 war and then a bloody revisiting of it in the war of 1812.

Huge efforts (that can still be seen and visited and even spotted on the map if you know what to look for) went to the defense of Canada given its lack of strategic depth (somewhat counter-intuitively at first glance at the immense geographic size of Canada till you figure in that nearly all its population is compressed in a long corridor close to the US border)...and the looming threat of the massive powerful neighbour with real memories of bloodied sabres and burnings of capitals.

The British stayed neutral during the US civil war, but only officially....as there were unofficial overtures to the confederates to hedge should they have won or stabilised. This added a major element of sustainable tension after that war concluded and the US union emerged even more tempered and resilient.

It was the end of this war and the purchase of Alaska by the US shortly after that actually prompted the first confederation of Canada you see in 1867...and its quick expansion to more of British North America over time.

There is also somewhat quite a parallel between the British East India company and the Hudson Bay company that played a big role in north american political and commercial rivalry and tensions....but that is a longer story to get into.

But with enough passage of time and economic growth (especially the catching up to and surpassing of industrial revolution pioneer Britain by the US in total output sometime around the early 20th century....though per capita would take some more time), the two countries have become steadfast brothers and have a very warm and close relationship....with much cultural connection providing mortar and stone for the bridging across rivers that were once in such spate it was near unthinkable then.

The earlier cauldron and intense heat of tumult, anger and vengeance is just something to study in history now, having receded from any visceral memory or recollection from an elder etc...though the wars of the 20th century (fighting side by side this time) certainly played its part in this.

 

[VCheng]

It’s not right to compare Turkey in 2020 to “Pakistan decades ago”... or ever. We talk about completely different countries and nations who have different cultures and history. No matter how many delusional people that write “Pak- Turk zindabad” or “Two states- one Nation Pakistan-Turkey” you see online you can’t really find much things in common between the countries.

Turkey will never be an Islamic Republic the way you have seen it in Pakistan or Iran. It is just not possible because the huge majority of the people will never support it. In the age of internet and global communications it gets harder and harder to sell people such failed concepts when they can see how normal people live and what music they listen and what movies they watch with two clicks. Like many other places on Earth religion is dying out in Turkey too especially amongst young people. Turkey in 2020 is less religious than ever in its history and you can thank Erdogan for much if it.

Of they are two separate and unique countries, bu the methods by which religiosity can be used as a tool for social engineering are pretty much universally applicable. Granted that some societies are harder to transform than others by these methods, but try long and hard enough, and it can be done.

I will ask you the same question I asked of @T-123456 : In what ways has Turkey already changed since the present government came to power? What future direction is likely from the present setup?