TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Merzifonlu]

Cutting of what? Which piece of the plane? The wheels? The wing? Fuselage? What kind of announcement is that??? (Kotil)

„Hey People, in 2021 we will show you a piece of TF-X Plane. Ho ho ho.“ This kind of kidding people’s only works in Turkey.

Hahaha. I don't know. Dr. Kotil did not give detailed information. He only said we will cut the first piece in September 2021. He also said that we will fly the plane with the GE-F110 engine and then install the engine we developed.

 

[Zafer]

Cutting of what? Which piece of the plane? The wheels? The wing? Fuselage? What kind of announcement is that??? (Kotil)

„Hey People, in 2021 we will show you a piece of TF-X Plane. Ho ho ho.“ This kind of kidding people’s only works in Turkey.

That only means the beginning of physical production of any part of the plane. Like the first welding in shipbuilding. it doesn't matter what part they are welding.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

???

You mean TF2000 perhaps?

No bro, As @merzifonlu said It is about cutting the first pieces of TfX. Technically, The production of first prototype of the Tf-X is commencing in this date.

 

[Zafer]

I wonder at what stage we will get the first glimpse of the TFX body. Will it be after main structural elements are put in place or after most of the parts containing the skins are in place or what. Do you guys remember the first picture of the K-FX, how complete was it when it first appeared?

 

[adenl]

I wonder at what stage we will get the first glimpse of the TFX body. Will it be after main structural elements are put in place or after most of the parts containing the skins are in place or what. Do you guys remember the first picture of the K-FX, how complete was it when it first appeared?

Knowing Turkish defense industry's eagerness to show almost everything, we can be sure that there will be a cutting ceremony of the first MMU part

 

[Nutuk]

I wonder at what stage we will get the first glimpse of the TFX body. Will it be after main structural elements are put in place or after most of the parts containing the skins are in place or what. Do you guys remember the first picture of the K-FX, how complete was it when it first appeared?

probably at IDEF 2023

 

[Zafer]

probably at IDEF 2023

2023 is the year of roll out and IDEF is at the end of May, roll out maybe later in the year. There is also the elections in the same year. But between now and then I guess some announcements can be expected to be made marking the milestones passed in the project. One early milestone maybe when the plane body stands on its wheels with main sections installed. I guess it should have 4 large section in longitudinal axis. We will see once CAD details are revealed, if ever.

 

[Nutuk]

2023 is the year of roll out and IDEF is at the end of May, roll out maybe later in the year. There is also the elections in the same year. But between now and then I guess some announcements can be expected to be made marking the milestones passed in the project. One early milestone maybe when the plane body stands on its wheels with main sections installed. I guess it should have 4 large section in longitudinal axis. We will see once CAD details are revealed, if ever.

I read somewhere the rollout should be on 18 March or May, maybe I'm mistaken I don't remember it precisely.

I think 18 March (Canakkale zaferi)

 

[Indos]

No bro, As @merzifonlu said It is about cutting the first pieces of TfX. Technically, The production of first prototype of the Tf-X is commencing in this date.

How come they can produce some part of TFX when detail design hasnt been started yet ?

From what he said PDR (Preliminary Design Review) will commence in 2021. PDR is basic design that later after basic design is approved, the process needs to be followed by Critical Design Phase. Critical Design phase needs a lot of designers since they will make a lot of parts design.

 

[Indos]

I wonder at what stage we will get the first glimpse of the TFX body. Will it be after main structural elements are put in place or after most of the parts containing the skins are in place or what. Do you guys remember the first picture of the K-FX, how complete was it when it first appeared?

This is KFX first appearance

 

[Cabatli_TR]

How come they can produce some part of TFX when detail design hasnt been started yet ?

From what he said PDR (Preliminary Design Review) will commence in 2021. PDR is basic design that later after basic design is approved, the process needs to be followed by Critical Design Phase. Critical Design phase needs a lot of designers since they will make a lot of parts design.

After PDR phase are passed, The Critical design and prototype production phase are started in similar times in schedules because Qualification (for ending the detail design phase) of aircrafts need to be done with this prototype.

In master plans of S. Kores, It was envisaged to commence production of first KFX with 5-6 month differences than the date PDR completed. TfX PDR will commence in April 2021 and production (first cutting) will commence in Sept 2021.

 

[Raptor]

How come they can produce some part of TFX when detail design hasnt been started yet ?

From what he said PDR (Preliminary Design Review) will commence in 2021. PDR is basic design that later after basic design is approved, the process needs to be followed by Critical Design Phase. Critical Design phase needs a lot of designers since they will make a lot of parts design.

That's what India would do,today ADA director confirmed that PDR is done and the project enters detailed design simultaneous with production.
TFX will go through the same process i guess?

 

[Indos]

After PDR phase are passed, The Critical design and prototype production phase are started in similar times in schedules because Qualification (for ending the detail design phase) of aircrafts need to be done with this prototype.

In master plans of S. Kores, It was envisaged to commence production of first KFX with 5-6 month differences than the date PDR completed. TfX PDR will commence in April 2021 and production (first cutting) will commence in Sept 2021.

View attachment 12264

Yup, that plan is delayed because after KAI and LM join, the C 103 design is still being developed so the program get longer than it should be.

The technology demonstration phase has also resulted with C 103 design. In 2015 KAI and LM join the program. C 103 design is later refined and become C 109 design which is bigger than C 103 but the shape is not really different.

Preliminary Design Phase was completed in July 2018 and it is the start of Critical Design Phase. In September 2019 there is CDR (Critical Design Review) and it shows critical design phase has almost been completed.

Talking about first part of KFX/IFX production yes it is started about 6 month earlier than CDR, but it is only a small part. So I think you are right.

This is part of KFX/IFX that is started to be produced in early 2019.

And about the first KFX being unveiled, I am sorry, this is the first one in July 2020

 

[Zafer]

Yup, that plan is delayed because after KAI and LM join, the C 103 design is still being developed so the program get longer than it should be.

The technology demonstration phase has also resulted with C 103 design. In 2015 KAI and LM join the program. C 103 design is later refined and become C 109 design which is bigger than C 103 but the shape is not really different.

Preliminary Design Phase was completed in July 2018 and it is the start of Critical Design Phase. In September 2019 there is CDR (Critical Design Review) and it shows critical design phase has almost been completed.

View attachment 12266
View attachment 12267

Talking about first part of KFX/IFX production yes it is started about 6 month earlier than CDR, but it is only a small part. So I think you are right.

This is part of KFX/IFX that is started to be produced in early 2019.

View attachment 12268
View attachment 12269


And about the first KFX being unveiled, I am sorry, this is the first one in July 2020

View attachment 12270

I was almost getting the idea that the skin comes integral with the structure but obviously it does not. Seems like skin parts are attached after the structure is built. Parts are not monocoque but piecebuilt.

 

[Indos]

I was almost getting the idea that the skin comes integral with the structure but obviously it does not. Seems like skin parts are attached after the structure is built. Parts are not monocoque but piecebuilt.

I would say you guys better make a deal with GE during Biden ministry to supple F 110 engine for TFX program. You can still develop your own engine for fighter, despite I prefer you guys develop turbojet engine for UAV first.

Making a deal now is crucial since the fighter is still not yet finished. If you make a deal after 2025, then GE has upper hand in negotiation, it is because you guys have already invested to much in TFX development that is designed based on F110 engine.

F 110 engine is also quite different with diameter and length with Eurojet, so TFX program relies to much on GE. Eurojet is more similar with F 414, so it is why KFX/IFX program design C 103 that can use either F 414 and Eurojet. F 414 is then decided to be used in May 2016, more than 2 years before basic design is completed in June 2018.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Yup, that plan is delayed because after KAI and LM join, the C 103 design is still being developed so the program get longer than it should be.

The technology demonstration phase has also resulted with C 103 design. In 2015 KAI and LM join the program. C 103 design is later refined and become C 109 design which is bigger than C 103 but the shape is not really different.

Preliminary Design Phase was completed in July 2018 and it is the start of Critical Design Phase. In September 2019 there is CDR (Critical Design Review) and it shows critical design phase has almost been completed.

View attachment 12266
View attachment 12267

Talking about first part of KFX/IFX production yes it is started about 6 month earlier than CDR, but it is only a small part. So I think you are right.

This is part of KFX/IFX that is started to be produced in early 2019.

View attachment 12268
View attachment 12269


And about the first KFX being unveiled, I am sorry, this is the first one in July 2020

View attachment 12270

Do you have any info about this bulkhead ? Which institute produced it ? Was it produced with 3D printing or titanium pressing methods ?

 

[mulj]

I would say you guys better make a deal with GE during Biden ministry to supple F 110 engine for TFX program. You can still develop your own engine for fighter, despite I prefer you guys develop turbojet engine for UAV first.

Making a deal now is crucial since the fighter is still not yet finished. If you make a deal after 2025, then GE has upper hand in negotiation, it is because you guys have already invested to much in TFX development that is designed based on F110 engine.

F 110 engine is also quite different with diameter and length with Eurojet, so TFX program relies to much on GE. Eurojet is more similar with F 414, so it is why KFX/IFX program design C 103 that can use either F 414 and Eurojet. F 414 is then decided to be used in May 2016, more than 2 years before basic design is completed in June 2018.

not gone happen, biden will impose more sanctions on turkey, some other options should be considered.

 

[Zafer]

I would say you guys better make a deal with GE during Biden ministry to supple F 110 engine for TFX program. You can still develop your own engine for fighter, despite I prefer you guys develop turbojet engine for UAV first.

Making a deal now is crucial since the fighter is still not yet finished. If you make a deal after 2025, then GE has upper hand in negotiation, it is because you guys have already invested to much in TFX development that is designed based on F110 engine.

F 110 engine is also quite different with diameter and length with Eurojet, so TFX program relies to much on GE. Eurojet is more similar with F 414, so it is why KFX/IFX program design C 103 that can use either F 414 and Eurojet. F 414 is then decided to be used in May 2016, more than 2 years before basic design is completed in June 2018.

We can take that risk. The worst case scenario is the Turkish engine initially produces a low power and the plane is somewhat slower than intended which can be addressed over time. Seems like our guys may want to try making a smaller engine for Hürjet too.

 

[Indos]

Do you have any info about this bulkhead ? Which institute produced it ? Was it produced with 3D printing or titanium pressing methods ?

I believe they make it in KAI facility. I dont think production facility uses 3 D printing, there is no news saying thing like that, but yes, KFX/IFX uses titanium.

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This is from Indonesia Defense Ministry official website :

The first thing that has been prepared by the Indonesian government is to build facilities to support this project in the future. The facilities under construction are a special hangar for the composing hangar facility, titanium hangar, production hangar, and hangar for the final assembly of this fighter aircraft in Bandung, West Java. This particular hangar is located in the area of PT Dirgantara Indonesia, and is almost complete.

Badan Pendidikan dan Pelatihan Kemhan RI

www.kemhan.go.id

The thing that I know is that they use FASS technique (Fuselage Automated Splice System)

 

[Indos]