TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[adenl]

Why dont we cooperate in this project and involve more countries? For example, we are keeping it quiet for Uyghurs, China shall aid us in our project? If we could shorten 10 years to sth like 7 years or less wouldnt it be better?

One doesn't just cooperate in a 5th gen stealth fighter project with others like that...

 

[Ryder]

Why dont we cooperate in this project and involve more countries? For example, we are keeping it quiet for Uyghurs, China shall aid us in our project? If we could shorten 10 years to sth like 7 years or less wouldnt it be better?

China is also struggling to build a jet.

This is the price to pay if you want to build your own.

 

[GoatsMilk]

China is also struggling to build a jet.

This is the price to pay if you want to build your own.

China has the massive advantage that they can copy and steal tech without consequence too. This theft has been pretty much the basis of their domestic military industry.

As for Turkey, if AK party cronies get their hands on this project it will fail the way Altay tank has failed.

Also while the US and Israel is against you its very foolish to then place your hopes in the British. I have no doubts that these three countries are in constant communication and align their foreign policies.

USA used nonsense excuse not to sell you S400, rumours are that Israel worked behind the scenes to also stop the sale. The idea that the British will then be an option is very risky and very foolish.

 

[Ryder]

China has the massive advantage that they can copy and steal tech without consequence too. This theft has been pretty much the basis of their domestic military industry.

As for Turkey, if AK party cronies get their hands on this project it will fail the way Altay tank has failed.

Also while the US and Israel is against you its very foolish to then place your hopes in the British. I have no doubts that these three countries are in constant communication and align their foreign policies.

USA used nonsense excuse not to sell you S400, rumours are that Israel worked behind the scenes to also stop the sale. The idea that the British will then be an option is very risky and very foolish.

You mean F35. Yes I know there is many factors on what a jet fighter project can do to be successful and the factors of failing.

Akp cronies honestly I fear this because we can be quite the despotic bunch also how corruption is so rife in the country regardless of who does it.

I hope this project does not fail. I dont want to be let down.

 

[adenl]

As for Turkey, if AK party cronies get their hands on this project it will fail the way Altay tank has failed.

Did the Altay tank fail? If so in what way?

 

[Ryder]

Did the Altay tank fail? If so in what way?

No engine and transmission. Also due to the fact it was given to bmc when they did not deserve it.

 

[adenl]

No engine and transmission. Also due to the fact it was given to bmc when they did not deserve it.

So it didn't fail. It was and still is ready to be produced but a 'friend' became unreliable and decided to embargo Turkey. Any other company would suffer the same and would not find a suitable powerpack for the Altay. Don't blame it on BMC. Only 4 countries in the world have developed and produced a 1500hp engine suitable for MBT's. That is less than the amount of countries that have developed and produced a medium-thrust turbofan engine for a fighter-aircraft...

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351115062849769472

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351115069040586753

Production of the first part of the National Combat Aircraft project will begin in September. In the MMU project, 3000 engineers will work in TAI and 3000 engineers outside (Defense companies, Institutes etc.). 1000 more engineers will be hired this year.

 

[Ryder]

Dived into off topic.

Now on topic. Any kind of variants planned for the TFX like a two seater and a bomber?

 

[Nilgiri]

Temel Kotil: PDR phase of TF-X will commence in April 2021.

Looking at this reasonably aggresive schedule...for TF-X, largest+capable near field and far field ranges in Turkey will be crucial for RCS and related emission studies.

Here is paper concerning development of a near field facility instrumentation:

(PDF) Design and realization of a planar near field antenna measurement system

PDF | Determination of the radiation pattern is one of the major issues in antenna characterization. Radiation pattern is a far field parameter and it... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

i.e located here: https://bilgem.tubitak.gov.tr/en/urunler/atam-antenna-test-and-research-laboratory

Turkey has another far field + near field combined facility at METU:

https://www.mrc-gigacomp.com/pdfs/ASYSOL-Corporate-Presentation-2018-MRCG.pdf

They are listed separately, seems this company (ANSYSOL) was involved in both facilities:

Looks like Turkey is all set to do very well in this field for this decade.

Are there any other facilities members know?

As a summary, The METU facility (since it has far field capability too it seems) will be key for Turkey to calibrate the near field results (at BILGEM) by way of appropriate FFT and related transforms. This part has already likely been done...and very likely all the subsequent RCS analysis that could proceed till now for iteration design till PDR.

If any members know of any more information, plans and any open source documentation etc regarding such facilities and the science/research governing them in Turkey (esp w.r.t RCS and TF-X program if available for open source), I will be much obliged.

I expect such will stream through more in the coming years as TF-X develops and matures...I similarly follow and will follow such matters w.r.t Indian AMCA.

Just thought I would post this as a short look into a key part of TF-X and any stealth development for a country for interested readers here.

@UkroTurk @xenon5434 @anmdt @T-123456 @Webslave @dBSPL @Test7 @Kartal1 et al.

 

[dBSPL]

Dived into off topic.

Now on topic. Any kind of variants planned for the TFX like a two seater and a bomber?

Already, MMU is currently a next gen multi-role fighter jet project. However, as Temel Kotil stated in 2019, studies continue out on different variants for dedicated to some specific mission/role types. As you know, MMU is a state-owned project. The decisions on the project and even the financial instruments have different bureaucratic structure than the Hurjet project. Therefore, developments regarding the supply of F-35s or alternative procurement / modernization studies currently on the agenda have the capacity to directly affect the futuret of the project. Kotil had mentioned exactly the A, B and C variants. Therefore, it is possible that we will be able to see strike version directly in the future. (like F15 / Strike Eagle) Since MMU designing as TuAF's main combatant platform in the 2040s, we can think that it will have a very flexible infrastructure.

 

[Ryder]

Already, MMU is currently a next gen multi-role fighter jet project. However, as Temel Kotil stated in 2019, studies continue out on different variants for dedicated to some specific mission/role types. As you know, MMU is a state-owned project. The decisions on the project and even the financial instruments have a very different bureaucratic structure than the Hurjet project. Therefore, developments regarding the supply of F-35s or alternative procurement / modernization studies currently on the agenda have the capacity to directly affect the futuret of the project. Kotil had mentioned exactly the A, B and C variants. Therefore, it is possible that we will be able to see strike version directly in the future. (like F15 / Strike Eagle) Since MMU designing as TuAF's main combatant platform in the 2040s, we can think that it will have a very flexible infrastructure.

Thats so awesome thanks for replying. I got the answer I wanted. Cant wait to see the variants they have planned.

 

[chngr]

We need MMU's carrier variant for aircraft carrier and land-based naval fighter role

 

[dBSPL]

Thats so awesome thanks for replying. I got the answer I wanted. Cant wait to see the variants they have planned.

Actually, MMU isn't just about flying a stealth aircraft fuselage. In a broader sense, it defines TuAF's main combat doctrine starting from the 2030s and the technical infrastructure it wants to have. This includes hundreds of sub-avionic / ground electronic systems, dozens of different smart ammunition types, detection&identification and decision support capabilities and up to unmanned wingmans, in short, system of systems to act as a whole. Therefore MMU, which will form the core of this whole structure, needs to develop with these dozens of sub-workspaces and all these processes must affect each other.

edit: MMU and MILDEN projects(which we will talk more about in the future and currently under preparation) can be described as the APOLLO programs of the Turkish defense industry. These two flagship projects representing the full independence and highest deterrance of the Turkish military power in the conventional sense but besides that will produce results up to civilian private industrial areas, beyond the operational capability leap they will produce. When we grasp this, we can also understand even the subjects that currently discussing are how a small part of the picture.

 

[Anmdt]

Looking at this reasonably aggresive schedule...for TF-X, largest+capable near field and far field ranges in Turkey will be crucial for RCS and related emission studies.

Here is paper concerning development of a near field facility instrumentation:

(PDF) Design and realization of a planar near field antenna measurement system

PDF | Determination of the radiation pattern is one of the major issues in antenna characterization. Radiation pattern is a far field parameter and it... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

i.e located here: https://bilgem.tubitak.gov.tr/en/urunler/atam-antenna-test-and-research-laboratory

Turkey has another far field + near field combined facility at METU:

https://www.mrc-gigacomp.com/pdfs/ASYSOL-Corporate-Presentation-2018-MRCG.pdf

View attachment 12080

They are listed separately, seems this company (ANSYSOL) was involved in both facilities:

View attachment 12081

Looks like Turkey is all set to do very well in this field for this decade.

Are there any other facilities members know?

As a summary, The METU facility (since it has far field capability too it seems) will be key for Turkey to calibrate the near field results (at BILGEM) by way of appropriate FFT and related transforms. This part has already likely been done...and very likely all the subsequent RCS analysis that could proceed till now for iteration design till PDR.

If any members know of any more information, plans and any open source documentation etc regarding such facilities and the science/research governing them in Turkey (esp w.r.t RCS and TF-X program if available for open source), I will be much obliged.

I expect such will stream through more in the coming years as TF-X develops and matures...I similarly follow and will follow such matters w.r.t Indian AMCA.

Just thought I would post this as a short look into a key part of TF-X and any stealth development for a country for interested readers here.

@UkroTurk @xenon5434 @anmdt @T-123456 @Webslave @dBSPL @Test7 @Kartal1 et al.

If i am not mistaken TAI has one or already building one along with a new wind tunnel.

TUSAŞ VE TÜBİTAK BİLGEM ARASINDA MMU TESTLERİ İÇİN SÖZLEŞME İMZALANDI - TUSAS

TUSAŞ VE TÜBİTAK BİLGEM ARASINDA MMU TESTLERİ İÇİN SÖZLEŞME İMZALANDI

www.tusas.com

Summary of translation,TAI has signed contract with tubitak bilgem for near field RCS test facility of MMU, to be completed in 2021.

 

[Nilgiri]

If i am not mistaken TAI has one or already building one along with a new wind tunnel.

TUSAŞ VE TÜBİTAK BİLGEM ARASINDA MMU TESTLERİ İÇİN SÖZLEŞME İMZALANDI - TUSAS

TUSAŞ VE TÜBİTAK BİLGEM ARASINDA MMU TESTLERİ İÇİN SÖZLEŞME İMZALANDI

www.tusas.com

Summary of translation,TAI has signed contract with tubitak bilgem for near field RCS test facility of MMU, to be completed in 2021.

Great, that means at least 3 will be on hand for Turkey soon. I suppose the TAI one will be MMU dedicated since as mentioned here already, it is really deserving to have its own since it will be quite a long term strategic "feeder" program at large.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Temel KOTIL:
PDR will commence in April 2021
Production of first TfX will commence in September 2021

 

[Nutuk]

Temel KOTIL:
Production of first TfX will commence in September 2021

???

You mean TF2000 perhaps?

 

[Merzifonlu]

???

You mean TF2000 perhaps?

No. Dr. Temel Kotil gave that date for cutting the first piece. He gave that date for the cutting of the first piece, not the first production TFX.

 

[Huelague]

No. Dr. Temel Kotil gave that date for cutting the first piece. He gave that date for the cutting of the first piece, not the first production TFX.

Cutting of what? Which piece of the plane? The wheels? The wing? Fuselage? What kind of announcement is that??? (Kotil)

„Hey People, in 2021 we will show you a piece of TF-X Plane. Ho ho ho.“ This kind of kidding people’s only works in Turkey.