TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Nilgiri

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It is this article wherein the titanium use is mentioned: https://www.milliyet.com.tr/ekonomi/temel-kotil-neyin-nasil-yapildigini-bilmemiz-gerekiyor-6389845

"Kotil, importing that the Turks innovation to make life style, "We want to overcome ourselves as a company in Turkey. TAI, you have to overcome yourself. We're doing the fifth generation fighter aircraft. 2023 to run the engine on 18 March. Coming as told by story. We are with innovation it .This plane has an engine bigger than two F16 engines. For this we use a lot of titanium. For this we need to press a titanium part of five meters by seven meters. A few countries in the world have this press but they do not press it to us. We will do it with a 3D printer, under vacuum. We didn't come up with a new invention. We are currently buying 3D printer titanium technology. What we have no chance to do is need innovation. Without innovation, we cannot go this way. " He spoke in the form."

Hmm ok, could be large forge of some kind. I don't think its sheet metal per se....but rather the forge work area size for large titanium billet...with the tolerances needed for some application (to make further CNC etc as little as possible - i.e economic and feasible and reliable etc).

He is right that doing it harder 3d print way needs RnD effort for it more than the conventional forge/CNC route.

We will need more information later on the progress to get more idea on this, these are just speculations from me.
 

Yasar_TR

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None will give you presses of that capabilities, those are national assets, you need to make one by yourself.
I wish the Father Coskunoz was still alive. He was a genius in machines and innovation. He would have found a way to produce the right die and press to do the job.
I know Coskunoz have come along way since I remember them (1980 to 1990) . But we do have companies that can produce machines that can build factories. They need to be given chances to prove themselves. Culture of political favouritism has to end when it is motherland that is in question.
 
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Bogeyman 

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Every developed Nation has only a couple of such machines it is only reserved for most important Aerospace/military projects And Rest of the Local Companies are lucky if They can get in the line to wait a couple years for a couple hour of Stamping in Such machines.
An excerpt from the article by İbrahim Sünnetçi

TEI R&D Director Dr. Mehmet DEMİROĞLU shared the following information in response to a question asked about the current capacity of TEI in Additive Manufacturing Technologies and the main advantages and disadvantages of products manufactured using this technology:

We currently have two laser beam additive manufacturing machines and one electron beam machine. We are planning to double this capacity in 2021, two more machines will come. In addition, we have started a new project to manufacture and commission a machine of a size that does not have a sample in the world with our local manufacturer.

TEI will definitely use these machines to produce turbofan engines in the National Fighter Aircraft project one day!
 

Bogeyman 

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dont even trust Russians, i know their language, know everything within Russia, they are still in 1990s technology... dont expect a single innovation from them... all the universities are full of bribes.. they need to change putin to have an opportunity to change. otherwise they got no chance,, they cannot even make 3d technology, Trust me... all their technologies are USSR technology..

Arda Mevlütoğlu (@orko_8) was talking about the importance of shape memory materials here. I came across a technique that the Russians developed with a 4D printer. Usually everyone mentions that the Russians are not able to develop technology. It is important to see examples from the field.

4D manufacturing of intermetallic SMA fabricated by SLM process

Igor Shishkovsky academic profile
Another address for those who want to download and review the study (I gave the other one for you to see other technologies developed by the Russians)
On the contrary, the Russians are currently using the world's most advanced 4D printer technologies. I recommend you to research Russians in academic journals.
 

Zafer

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An excerpt from the article by İbrahim Sünnetçi

TEI R&D Director Dr. Mehmet DEMİROĞLU shared the following information in response to a question asked about the current capacity of TEI in Additive Manufacturing Technologies and the main advantages and disadvantages of products manufactured using this technology:

We currently have two laser beam additive manufacturing machines and one electron beam machine. We are planning to double this capacity in 2021, two more machines will come. In addition, we have started a new project to manufacture and commission a machine of a size that does not have a sample in the world with our local manufacturer.

TEI will definitely use these machines to produce turbofan engines in the National Fighter Aircraft project one day!
Faaantastic
 
E

Era_shield

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I am partially disapponted by This decision, Varies Turkish Industries needs heavy press, 1 or 2 such Stamping machine would give our local companies access to high technology Comparable to no other. This decision will not only limit TFX ablities (unless they take real rabbit out of hat) but Also Limit All of our AeroSpace project in the long term.
Hopefully it ends up being like the sanctions and forces us to innovate something better. Mr Kotil said that because they can't use a heavy press they will use 3D printing instead. Theoretically this method can produce more advanced parts than a heavy press.
 

what

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You learn something new every day on this forum. Never thought that heavy presses were so strategic.
 

Bogeyman 

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Britain's ambassador to Turkey Chilcott [TF-X project]:

Black small square “Phase one, the first design phase, continues ahead of the program. It is going very well."

Black small square “Second stage prototype production. I think it will probably start towards the end of 2022 or at the beginning of 2023. "
 

Zafer

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This is wonderful news! All doubts about the progress about this project are now vanquished!
Ahem, it is not that we value the statements of foreign officials better but that our officials don't make those statements.
 
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adenl

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Ahem, it is not that we value the statements of foreign officials better but that our officials don't make those statements.
We all know that the Brits help with the development of the MMU. Getting these kinds of statements and confirmations from both sides of the cooperation makes these statements stand straight against even the harshest opponents. :)
 
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BordoEnes

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I really highly doubt there will be a prototype anywhere before atleast 2023, though obviously i hope i am dead wrong.
 

AzeriTank

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I really highly doubt there will be a prototype anywhere before atleast 2023, though obviously i hope i am dead wrong.
my only hope against it is 3D printing technologies used which makes the process moves way faster and f35 crisis.. i really wish Turkey makes a new fighter drone like mius with 2 AI-225 turbofan engine... or Goksungur, especially using 3 D technologies, imagine they produce dozens of them every year.. ufff
 

Yasar_TR

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According to that information MMU is moving faster than expected
Yes it is great news and reaffirmation of what we were hearing. I will be even happier when there is the news that RR is ready and developing an engine for TFX.
 

Zafer

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my only hope against it is 3D printing technologies used which makes the process moves way faster and f35 crisis.. i really wish Turkey makes a new fighter drone like mius with 2 AI-225 turbofan engine... or Goksungur, especially using 3 D technologies, imagine they produce dozens of them every year.. ufff
We should make drones and fighters and planes with every combination of engines we have access to. Single and twin engine variations and also planes with 3 and 4 engines. Imagine we make a bomber with 4 MMU engines, and Mach 3 business jets that can take our MOFA to the farthest countries in a couple of hours. Can we do this with foreign engines, NO.
 

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mmu-2-min.jpg
 

Nilgiri

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You learn something new every day on this forum. Never thought that heavy presses were so strategic.

Titanium (And its alloys) is a very odd metal compared to most (this is detailed long subject in itself as to why).

For example its machinability is really bad (compared to say steel).

This has specific considerations to think of and develop when it comes to both hot and cold presses (and tolerances regarding that with economics in mind) depending on both part size and also machining + further heat treatments and applications....again with economics in mind.

The arguably largest non-conventional use for titanium in history was the soviet attempt at submarine hulls using it (specifically to make use of its non-magnetic nature). They made some test examples, but the costs proved prohibitive from the manufacturing end. NATO did not even attempt anything like this, largest bulk titanium app. was kept at most to aerospace skin fab I believe.

The time used, manpower used, research capacity used, CNC tools used etc etc for what you get and the end QC etc must always be considered and balanced.

It is not an easy mainstream metal at all compared to ones (steel etc) that have 90%+ of the core techniques well established and scaled in many more countries.

This is why 3D printing of it would also need heavy RnD with end use QC in mind.

That's why specifically for titanium, there is set of presses and CNC techniques very much concentrated (i.e the investment heavy optimised capital machinery) around where the largest factories of titanium aeroengine parts are in the world. US, France, UK, Canada and Germany I would say are top 5 in western world, roughy in that order too.
 

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