TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[what]

I guess he made the transitsion and is now a proper politician.

 

[Yasar_TR]

SSB president Ismail Demi has said something interesting to a newspaper;
Quote:
2023 yılında hangardan çıkarıp bütün dünyaya nasıl bir uçak olacağını göstereceğiz. Ardından bir dizi test ve sonrasında uçuşu olacak. Uçağın tasarımı konusunda İngiliz BAE’den mühendislik desteği almak üzere anlaştık ve bu faaliyet devam ediyor. Motor konusunda da Rolls Royce şirketinin Türkiye’de kurduğu bir JV kanalıyla motor tasarlayıp üretme teklifi oldu. Ancak bu teklifte fonlama, fikri mülkiyet ve üretim hakları gibi konuların detaylarında bazı anlaşmazlıklar oldu. Ama biz bir taraftan da yerli şirket olarak kurduğumuz TR Motor üzerinden tasarım çalışmalarını başlattık. TR Motor’un Rolls Royce ile işbirliği konusunda, biz çok makul şartlar ortaya koyduk, bizim dediğimiz şartlara gelirlerse işbirliği mümkün. Uçağın ilk test prototipleri dünyada mevcut iki motor üzerinden yapılacak.
unquote.
He says they were given an offer for an engine by RR JV company. But due to IP rights etc a decision was not reached. Recently TR Motor and the SSB has made a counter offer to RR to have an engine produced. This, he thinks was very favourable and if RR+JV agrees to it there may be a cooperation. The test prototypes of the plane will be produced using two current and existing engine makes.

F-35’ler için üretime devam

Savunma Sanayii Başkanı (SSB) İsmail Demir gazetelerin Ankara temsilcileriyle buluşarak, ABD’nin CAATSA çerçevesinde Türkiye’ye uyguladığı yaptırımları...

www.hurriyet.com.tr

 

[Bogeyman]

Temel Kotil said that they pressed titanium alloy with 3D printer in the MMU project.

Temel Kotil: Neyin, nasıl yapıldığını bilmemiz gerekiyor

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii (TUSAŞ) Genel Müdürü Temel Kotil, Türkiye ya da TUSAŞ özelinde biz eski köyle gidemeyiz. Bizim eski köye yeni adete ihtiyacımız var. Dünyanın neresinde, neyin, nasıl yapıldığını bilmemiz gerekiyor. dedi.

www.milliyet.com.tr

 

[Yasar_TR]

Kotil says by 18th March 2023 the engine of the TFX wil start to work. His sentence about “this plane has a larger engine than 2 F16 engines” does not make sense. I wonder if the serial production engine being designed is something quite different to f110 prototype engines.
RR had built an engine with GE called f136 For the Joint Fighter f35. It was snubbed in favour of f135 of Pratt & Whitney. Can it be a variation of this they are envisaging for the TFX.

F136 engine

 

[Khagan1923]

View attachment 9829
Kotil says by 18th March 2023 the engine of the TFX wil start to work. His sentence about “this plane has a larger engine than 2 F16 engines” does not make sense. I wonder if the serial production engine being designed is something quite different to f110 prototype engines.
RR had built an engine with GE called f136 For the Joint Fighter f35. It was snubbed in favour of f135 of Pratt & Whitney. Can it be a variation of this they are envisaging for the TFX.
View attachment 9834
F136 engine

No idea what he means by that honestly. The engine of the fighter is bigger than two F-16 engines? What?
Also it would also be interesting to know which varaint of the F110 has been ordered for the Prototypes. 100, 129 or 132?

 

[adenl]

No idea what he means by that honestly. The engine of the fighter is bigger than two F-16 engines? What?
Also it would also be interesting to know which varaint of the F110 has been ordered for the Prototypes. 100, 129 or 132?

Most likely the -129 version. Positively sure no -100 and perhaps a slight chance of -132.

 

[adenl]

His sentence about “this plane has a larger engine than 2 F16 engines” does not make sense.

Perhaps the writer misquoted and he meant the plane would be 2x as large as an F-16.

 

[Zafer]

Perhaps the writer misquoted and he meant the plane would be 2x as large as an F-16.

If the 5 by 7 meter sheet metal is for the casing of the engine, it is huge, like 159cm diameter if it is used without crinkling it.

 

[Zafer]

If the 5 by 7 meter sheet metal is for the casing of the engine, it is huge, like 159cm diameter if it is used without crinkling it.

However it is bound to get reduced in size to add structural strenght and it would probably be around 125cm or so if 20% reduced due to crinkling, my speculation.

 

[adenl]

However it is bound to get reduced in size to add structural strenght and it would probably be around 125cm or so if 20% reduced due to crinkling, my speculation.

F110-GE-129 is 1.2m diameter and 4.6m in length which is 5.2 m3. 2x as large is thus 10.6 m3. The engine would thus be in the range of 1.4m diameter and 6m+ in length. This is unrealistic IMO but the 5x7 meters sheet is indicative of how large and powerful the TF-X engines will be.

 

[adenl]

However it is bound to get reduced in size to add structural strenght and it would probably be around 125cm or so if 20% reduced due to crinkling, my speculation.

Something tells me that Turkey understates the TF-X capabilities by a lot. This is not going to be a mere 27000lb class engine but more in the league of the F135/136.

 

[Zafer]

F110-GE-129 is 1.2m diameter and 4.6m in length which is 5.2 m3. 2x as large is thus 10.6 m3. The engine would thus be in the range of 1.4m diameter and 6m+ in length. This is unrealistic IMO but the 5x7 meters sheet it is indicative of how large and powerful the TF-X engines will be.

TFX specks changed quite a bit over time and it is ever larger and larger.
A king size or emperor size plane, likely.

 

[adenl]

TFX specks changed quite a bit over time and it is ever larger and larger.
A king size or Emperor size plane, likely.

Indeed. First it was mentioned that it would be powered by EJ200 engines, then it became 27000lb class engines with the F110-GE-129 to power the prototypes and now we have indications that the indigenous engines will be much larger and in the class of the F119/F135/F136.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I don’t suppose Turkey will sacrifice the power to weight ratio of aircraft so the selected engines must be more or less similar thrust level. Furthermore, If we want to guarantee the continuation of program by integrating two different engines for prototypes, It must be purchased from different countries. In this aspect, One engine will be F110 series that is under the permissions of US and other one in similar class may be from an Eastern block ? Al-31F Saturn (31000lbf ?) Europe don’t have an equivalent engine in this class.

 

[adenl]

Interesting article about the F110-GE-132/129EFE.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Power_Through_Low_Risk_Derivative_Technology

 

[Yasar_TR]

No idea what he means by that honestly. The engine of the fighter is bigger than two F-16 engines? What?
Also it would also be interesting to know which varaint of the F110 has been ordered for the Prototypes. 100, 129 or 132?

The prototypes are definitely f110GE129 engines. But set up for twin use like the f15 eagle engines. These are 29000lbf thrust engines.
The engine design that TR Motor has published is actually similar in design with F110GeE132 engines with their specific blisk design. These engines are 32000lbf thrust engines.
May be he was trying to say it is bigger (in thrust) than the standard f16 engine.
Or may be they have an understanding with Rolls Royce to use the big F136 they had built for the f35!!

 

[Yasar_TR]

Interesting article about the F110-GE-132/129EFE.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Power_Through_Low_Risk_Derivative_Technology

Yeah. Very interesting. I had read this before. Apparently the F110GE132 engine has a potential to be a 35000lbf thrust engine.

 

[Nilgiri]

One engine will be F110 series that is under the permissions of US and other one in similar class may be from an Eastern block ? Al-31F Saturn (31000lbf ?) Europe don’t have an equivalent engine in this class.

Tbh, russian one will be big compromise for the platforms Turkey is developing.

Their MTBO and reliability alone should not have any place in a top tier 5th or 6th gen fighter aircraft.

This must be considered past the thrust etc...so much (IMO) to even the extent of making the fighter smaller so it can have smaller more readily available engine options given the critical importance of service rate during initial critical moments of an all out war (which is really what every military must factor in top down first for their planning and strategy). Especially when land, airbases and squadron numbers deployed are only going to be so many.

 

[Era_shield]

The prototypes are definitely f110GE129 engines. But set up for twin use like the f15 eagle engines. These are 29000lbf thrust engines.
The engine design that TR Motor has published is actually similar in design with F110GeE132 engines with their specific blisk design. These engines are 32000lbf thrust engines.
May be he was trying to say it is bigger (in thrust) than the standard f16 engine.
Or may be they have an understanding with Rolls Royce to use the big F136 they had built for the f35!!

That would be great but RR had only 40% share in the F-136; the design is in the control of GE and the US government now, who would never let Turkey have it.

 

[Yasar_TR]

That would be great but RR had only 40% share in the F-136; the design is in the control of GE and the US government now, who would never let Turkey have it.

If that is the case then you are correct. However as they have also been in the project they could easily produce an engine like F136 if they wanted to. If you look at thousands of planes that British Airways have used over the years, be it Airbus or Boeing they all have RR engines on them. So they can produce engines of the same caliber without any problems.
It does not have to be the same F136. But a RR variant!
This may not be the case at all. Mr Kotil may have misused a word trying to express the size of the engines to be used - however unlikely!