TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[AzeriTank]

CAMM spots out ESSM because it weighs 100kg , diameter 16cm and length 3 m while ESSM 280kg, diameter 25cm, length 3.6 m.

CAMM gives more point defense opportunity with compact dimensions.
Quad pack three cells consist 12 missiles.
However it can engage up to 25km with active radar seeker.
.

Nonetheless, RN type 26 will have additional mk41 VLS equipped with ESSMs apart from sea Ceptor VLS.

I'd would say the Brits created own RAM but more capable( 360degree cover) like C-Dome.

you got 6meter long Mk41, why not to use it all to shoot missiles from far away but use only 3 meters of it? you know that with supersonic missiles, those range really matters against saturation attacks.. with g40, being able to be packed Quadro, its perfect for Turkey..
this mentioned missile is good to add into ships later, but Turkey will not need it much. You got SUngur for that.. Uk, only able to put 1 missile to vls system, thats why they look for other options..

 

[Turko]

you got 6meter long Mk41, why not to use it all to shoot missiles from far away but use only 3 meters of it? you know that with supersonic missiles, those range really matters against saturation attacks.. with g40, being able to be packed Quadro, its perfect for Turkey..
this mentioned missile is good to add into ships later, but Turkey will not need it much. You got SUngur for that.. Uk, only able to put 1 missile to vls system, thats why they look for other options..

- Sea Ceptor VLS has also quad pack variant if you read you would find it.
- Sea Ceptor missiles are much more compact then ESSMs and others so They are perfect solution for limited spaces such as Tuzla Class or FACs.
I wanted Turkish Navy use point defence system such as Sea Captor for Tuzla Class and some strategic ground objects


- SUNGUR isnt nearly as same as RAM, Sea Captor or C-Dome since SUNGUR is just a MANPADS missile without data link.Sea Captor or Tamir missile use two data link and active radar seeker. Sungur is nowhere as capable as point defence systems.

- i came up with Sea Captor because it has modular construction as you can use it for air , naval, land systems.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1356243200382562306

TSK fired a Bora missile.

 

[Yasar_TR]

- Sea Ceptor VLS has also quad pack variant if you read you would find it.
- Sea Ceptor missiles are much more compact then ESSMs and others so They are perfect solution for limited spaces such as Tuzla Class or FACs.
I wanted Turkish Navy use point defence system such as Sea Captor for Tuzla Class and some strategic ground objects


- SUNGUR isnt nearly as same as RAM, Sea Captor or C-Dome since SUNGUR is just a MANPADS missile without data link.Sea Captor or Tamir missile use two data link and active radar seeker. Sungur is nowhere as capable as point defence systems.

- i came up with Sea Captor because it has modular construction as you can use it for air , naval, land systems.

If one has to compare; searam RIM-116 is a 2+ Mach 10km range missile. Sea Ceptor missile is a 3+ Mach 25 km range missile and is very accurate. It can also hit supersonic missiles. Where as RIM-116 cannot. It’s modular design is also a plus point. Sungur has a speed of 2.2 Mach and is at best a 8-10km range 6-7 km altitude missile. Yes it can be used as a point defence missile as well as attack missile. But nowhere near as versatile as this sea ceptor. But having said that, if you have Gokdeniz and Sungur with ESSM (or g40) than you are covered for point defence. All you need to add is a siper missile in to the mix.

 

[Turko]

If one has to compare; searam RIM-116 is a 2+ Mach 10km range missile. Sea Ceptor missile is a 3+ Mach 25 km range missile and is very accurate. It can also hit supersonic missiles. Where as RIM-116 cannot. It’s modular design is also a plus point. Sungur has a speed of 2.2 Mach and is at best a 8-10km range 6-7 km altitude missile. Yes it can be used as a point defence missile as well as attack missile. But nowhere near as versatile as this sea ceptor. But having said that, if you have Gokdeniz and Sungur with ESSM (or g40) than you are covered for point defence. All you need to add is a siper missile in to the mix.

Sungur doesn't have data link so radar can't update its engagement whereas RAM and Sea Captor can be fed from radar.

 

[AzeriTank]

- Sea Ceptor VLS has also quad pack variant if you read you would find it.
- Sea Ceptor missiles are much more compact then ESSMs and others so They are perfect solution for limited spaces such as Tuzla Class or FACs.
I wanted Turkish Navy use point defence system such as Sea Captor for Tuzla Class and some strategic ground objects


- SUNGUR isnt nearly as same as RAM, Sea Captor or C-Dome since SUNGUR is just a MANPADS missile without data link.Sea Captor or Tamir missile use two data link and active radar seeker. Sungur is nowhere as capable as point defence systems.

- i came up with Sea Captor because it has modular construction as you can use it for air , naval, land systems.

Sea Ceptor, 25km range, g40 or ESSM 40-50km range
Sea ceptor 3 Mach speed, G40 4.5 Mach speed.
G40(ESSM) got way bigger warhead on them, way more successful than those 2 times little missile. when Turkey make hit to kill system, with Hisar U, may be they will try to make similar with way lower budget. but doing it now doesnt make sense...
when countries try to get bigger missiles to hit from far distances why Turkey should spend money to make a lower level system?
Also, Turkey got 2nd layer defense in case its radar is jammed, you got SUngur with thermal head. but what's the purpose of sending another radar head missile if the first one failed to shoot it?

also, if small Sungur able to shoot from 8km, just imagine Naval version would be able to shoot more than 12km, as they will be bigger.. it might be more than that...

 

[Oublious]

If one has to compare; searam RIM-116 is a 2+ Mach 10km range missile. Sea Ceptor missile is a 3+ Mach 25 km range missile and is very accurate. It can also hit supersonic missiles. Where as RIM-116 cannot. It’s modular design is also a plus point. Sungur has a speed of 2.2 Mach and is at best a 8-10km range 6-7 km altitude missile. Yes it can be used as a point defence missile as well as attack missile. But nowhere near as versatile as this sea ceptor. But having said that, if you have Gokdeniz and Sungur with ESSM (or g40) than you are covered for point defence. All you need to add is a siper missile in to the mix.

RIM is used as CIWS.

 

[Turko]

As i said I'm looking forward seeing Turkish C-dome

 

[Yasar_TR]

RIM is used as CIWS.

Point-defence weapons include:

• Short-ranged interceptor aircraft
• Close-in weapon system (CIWS)s on ship
• Counter rocket, artillery, and mortar (C-RAM) systems on land
• Land-based short-ranged anti-aircraft guns or surface-to-air missile systems
• Active protection systems on tanks or other armoured fighting vehicles

 

[Yasar_TR]

Sea Ceptor, 25km range, g40 or ESSM 40-50km range
Sea ceptor 3 Mach speed, G40 4.5 Mach speed.
G40(ESSM) got way bigger warhead on them, way more successful than those 2 times little missile. when Turkey make hit to kill system, with Hisar U, may be they will try to make similar with way lower budget. but doing it now doesnt make sense...
when countries try to get bigger missiles to hit from far distances why Turkey should spend money to make a lower level system?
Also, Turkey got 2nd layer defense in case its radar is jammed, you got SUngur with thermal head. but what's the purpose of sending another radar head missile if the first one failed to shoot it?

also, if small Sungur able to shoot from 8km, just imagine Naval version would be able to shoot more than 12km, as they will be bigger.. it might be more than that...

Sea Ceptor has an ER version with 45 km range. UK nevertheless is to use the 25 km range version with aster 15 or ESSM.
ESSM according to users, is more like a 80 km range missile, even though it is stated as a 50 km range missile.
Sea Ceptor is actually a CWIS and an advance SeaRam alternative.
Do you have a source for the naval 12 km range Sungur? This is big news!
For us I think Gokdeniz + Sungur + G40/ESSM + Siper is the right way to go for, in an air defence frigate.

quote:
It is difficult to determine how much range and altitude and additional stage would provide the ESSM. From public sources, it appears that the maximum effective range of the ESSM is in excess of 50 km, perhaps as long as 80 km (48 statute miles).
unquote

A Call for the ESSM-ER

The Evolved Sea Sparrow (ESSM) is a good, low-cost missile used for local air defense by the U.S. Navy as well as several allies. The short range of the missile limits its use as anything other

www.realcleardefense.com

 

[AzeriTank]

Sea Ceptor has an ER version with 45 km range. UK nevertheless is to use the 25 km range version with aster 15 or ESSM.
ESSM according to users, is more like a 80 km range missile, even though it is stated as a 50 km range missile.
Sea Ceptor is actually a CWIS and an advance SeaRam alternative.
Do you have a source for the naval 12 km range Sungur? This is big news!
For us I think Gokdeniz + Sungur + G40/ESSM + Siper is the right way to go for, in an air defence frigate.

quote:
It is difficult to determine how much range and altitude and additional stage would provide the ESSM. From public sources, it appears that the maximum effective range of the ESSM is in excess of 50 km, perhaps as long as 80 km (48 statute miles).
unquote

A Call for the ESSM-ER

The Evolved Sea Sparrow (ESSM) is a good, low-cost missile used for local air defense by the U.S. Navy as well as several allies. The short range of the missile limits its use as anything other

www.realcleardefense.com

totally agree with you here... Turkey got super combination... Siper also ready if Turkey going to build the space center soon. those are actually very connected projets... max 1 year difference if Turkey wants to test it in all situations..

 

[Anmdt]

As it is lighter, smaller and cheaper, it is advantageous. Like you say it is a much improved RAM replacement. There is an ER version which is heavier, longer and has 45 km range. A bit smaller than ESSM . That is why I saw a resemblance.

CAMM-ER | FORCE PROTECTION, Ground Based Air Defence | MBDA

CAMM-ER, the Common Anti-air Modular Missile Extended Range, is from the CAMM family of next generation air defence missiles, designed for land, sea and air environments.

www.mbda-systems.com

CAMM-ER and ESSM has similar canister sizes. There is also a self defense length of Mk41 which is used on USN vessels. (Dont know if it is ever exported, but exported users prefer tactical length which also can host air defense missiles)
Both CAMM and ER was introduced through Ex LS and if i am not mistaken they use common interfaces thus even CAMM requires as least as ESSM requires.

CAMM has minimum engagement range of 1km (around) and longer reaction time compared to RAM in short distances (<2~3 km)

RAM has minimum engagement range of ~100 meters and can engage faster (because of its launchers can revolve around, it has a purpose) Gives 2nd or 3rd chance in case of a miss.

RAM also has dual mode seeker (IR/IIR + RF to home on active seeker of anti ship missile, or through illumination)
Both CAMM and RAM does't not require an illumination.

RAM also can engage supersonic missiles, the distinction on super-subsonic wasn't discreet, hard to judge this capability by merely looking at maximum speed.

Also RAM is better in maneuvering against maneuvering missiles.

Both serves the purpose , and in my opinion hard to compare and say which is the best. As long as there is a well established self defense plan, both would perform similarly.

 

[Turko]

CAMM-ER and ESSM has similar canister sizes. There is also a self defense length of Mk41 which is used on USN vessels. (Dont know if it is ever exported, but exported users prefer tactical length which also can host air defense missiles)
Both CAMM and ER was introduced through Ex LS and if i am not mistaken they use common interfaces thus even CAMM requires as least as ESSM requires.

CAMM has minimum engagement range of 1km (around) and longer reaction time compared to RAM in short distances (<2~3 km)

RAM has minimum engagement range of ~100 meters and can engage faster (because of its launchers can revolve around, it has a purpose) Gives 2nd or 3rd chance in case of a miss.

RAM also has dual mode seeker (IR/IIR + RF to home on active seeker of anti ship missile, or through illumination)
Both CAMM and RAM does't not require an illumination.

RAM also can engage supersonic missiles, the distinction on super-subsonic wasn't discreet, hard to judge this capability by merely looking at maximum speed.

Also RAM is better in maneuvering against maneuvering missiles.

Both serves the purpose , and in my opinion hard to compare and say which is the best. As long as there is a well established self defense plan, both would perform similarly.

Bro here my 50 cent: Sea Ceptor is launched vertically and gives 360 degree cover whereas RAM can't.

Sea Ceptor also uses soft launch which has own pros.

 

[Reviewbrah]

We saw all the systems here other than SAPAN SAM which is told to be similar to RIM-116.

SAPAN could be easily integrated to various platforms.

FL-3000N

 

[Combat-Master]

Navalise Sungur and we gucci.

 

[Topan]

Can soft launch missile work in big windstrom environment? I think hot launch is better.

 

[Blank1]

Some air launched munitions & missiles produced in Turkey so far :

Guidance Kits : For MK 81 & MK 82 Bombs
Teber - Laser Seeker Guidance Kit
Lacin - IIR Seeker Guidance Kit
LGK - Laser Guidance Kit
HGK - Precision Guidance Kit
KGK - Wing Assisted Guidance Kit

Munitions :
NEB 84 - Bunker Buster Bomb
Demet - Cluster Bomb
Miniature Bomb - Small Diameter Wing Assisted Bomb (GBU 39 SDB Equivalent)
Sert 82 - Precision Guided Bomb
Sarb 83 - Bunker Buster Bomb
TOGAN - Air Launched Precision Mortar Bomb

Drone Launched :
MAM C - Laser Guided Bomb
MAM L - Laser Guided Bomb
Bozok - Laser Guided Bomb

In Lab : (Not Yet Tested)
KGH LR - Laser Guided Wing Assisted
HGK ER - Wing Assisted
Kuzgun V1 - Free Fall Tactical Guided Munition
Kuzgun V1 - Turbojet Powered Tactical Guided Munition (SPEAR 3 Equivalent)

General Purpose Missiles :
Umtas IIR - 8 km
Umtas L - 8 km
Cirit - 8 km

Cruise Missiles :
SOM (A / B1 / B2 / C1 / C2) - Air launched subsonic cruise missiles
SOM J - Air launched subsonic cruise missiles, Will be integrated to Akinci

Air Launched Drones :
Alpagu Block 1 - Air Launched Loitering Munition
Alpagu Block 2 - Air Launched Loitering Munition

If i am missing some thing, feel free to add.

 

[Ecderha]

Navalise Sungur and we gucci.
View attachment 13283

Diameter of Sungur launcher exit holes are different
I wounder why?

 

[Reviewbrah]

Diameter of Sungur launcher exit holes are different
I wounder why?

It is also able to launch Cirit, I think

You hide this vehicle behind a hill, wall or entrenchment.

For example, BMC Amazon with Sungur turret can easily shoot over average prefabric wall without exposing itself.

 

[Anthony]

View attachment 13265

We saw all the systems here other than SAPAN SAM which is told to be similar to RIM-116.

SAPAN could be easily integrated to various platforms.

View attachment 13276
FL-3000N

The identity of this missile launched from MDAS is important imo. It's most likely a ESSM, but it could very well be something else .