Boğaziçi Protests

[Bogeyman]

I'm sorry, doesn't mean I want to interfere your country's internal politics, but I just want to say politics is not just played "Strategically (long term)" But also pragmatically-tactically.

Sometimes, different (even very different) view or political positions can fight in the same trench to finish same issues that blocking their interest.

Just see WW2, how western allies (relatively center) with USSR (Stalin's era was crazily illogical gung ho left) can became friends. So same interest sometime can make them together.

See things pragmatically, that's the real winner in Realpolitik. Fight for your ideology with less ideological way.

As soon as you say this, you cannot say that Erdogan met with the PKK (I find him wrong here by the way). In fact, the CHP and HDP jointly entered the elections. They even gave the companies of the municipalities to the PKK. When the state dismisses the mayors elected by the PKK in the East, they say "we do not want trustees". I don't know what to say.

Sorry but this is another clear indication that you are unable to express yourself properly beyound the confines of your stereotypes for the sake of giving a meaning to yourself. you need enemies. Whoever indoctrinate you cleary underesimates the complexity of both individual and society as well. your next task to achive a healty mind is try to imagine a society where not every conservative is a AKP fan, not every nationalist is for MHP, not every Kurd is supporting HDP and whoever disagress with you is not a CHP memeber. I know a bit hard for you but if you mange you will have chance to understand others a bit better therefore people do not feel that they are talking to a wall just a friendly advise of mine.

What you said is very true. But how can you say that there is still no democracy in this country after all this? I wonder about him too. Democracy is exactly that!

 

[schuimpjes]

Erdogan met with the PKK

Welcome to Realpolitik. Be pragmatic, it's ok to forget about dogmas for one day. That was done for long-term political goal. Be more tolerant with things

 

[Nilgiri]

It's called as "horseshoe theory" Both extremes (right and left) are getting closer. Both less interested in Democracy.

That's because extremists are interested in power (above everything and to the near exclusion of everything else)....not the interests and welfare of people (who are merely a means to be used for the achievement of this power).

Thus you will do more and more at any cost to get that power.... i.e you become extreme. You want control to dictate everything with little to no resistance.

There is actually very little difference between far left and far right as the power is the objective and thus they sound and act very much like each other.

There is actually such a thing as beefsteak nazi (brown on the outside, red inside) for example, these were essentially left-wing oriented folks, many of whom swapped redfront garb for brownshirt once that was the clearer route to power and consolidation....and hoping to shape NSDAP into something more big-tent or left-wing downroad, esp since it already had the "Socialism" in its label. It is subject I have looked into at some length.

Essentially fascism and collectivism (w.r.t say a totalitarian state) are near identical in the process (grab and consolidate and concentrate power)....though the end-objectives can vary w.r.t the priorities of what to do with that power...i,e this is what then separates them into whether they are of the left or the right w.r.t the country's particular situation, society and context.

 

[Bogeyman]

Welcome to Realpolitik. Be pragmatic, it's ok to forget about dogmas for one day. That was done for long-term political goal. Be more tolerant with things

Please tell this not to me, but to our friends who don't understand politics. I know what politics is or shouldn't be. Those who cross the borders that should not be crossed see themselves as " sütten çıkmış ak kaşık". Then they commit the crimes of the people they accuse. And they still consider themselves right. The place of leftists in this country is not the CHP, but the party that Muharrem Ince recently founded. If leftists are going to do politics, they should do it there. Not in the CHP.

 

[schuimpjes]

Please tell this not to me, but to our friends who don't understand politics. I know what politics is or shouldn't be. Those who cross the borders that should not be crossed see themselves as " sütten çıkmış ak kaşık". Then they commit the crimes of the people they accuse. And they still consider themselves right. The place of leftists in this country is not the CHP, but the party that Muharrem Ince recently founded. If leftists are going to do politics, they should do it there. Not in the CHP.

Wow.. I can't understand this LOL.
Can you say to me as you say to 5 years kid? Or in simple English.

 

[Bogeyman]

Wow.. I can't understand this LOL.
Can you say to me as you say to 5 years kid? Or in simple English.

Unfortunately my English is not that practical. Sorry.

 

[schuimpjes]

but the party that Muharrem Ince recently founded

What party is that?

 

[Quasar]

@Bogeyman Bro I didnt like the way I wrote to you so if I offended you in anyway my apologies

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[Nilgiri]

Yes, That's why people have to disconnect from both the left and right both are merely tools for the rich elite to manipulate the masses.

The left wing nonsense in Turkey is bad, but so is the totalarianism of the ak party islamists too.

So what would you propose? I have much enjoyed reading some of your commentary in other threads, so I am interested if you or others have some solutions.

As an outsider (who is sympathetic to the students side so my bias is known), these protests (cause and escalation) seem to be classic exploitation of an artificial wedge issue (i.e something fairly trivial and inane if you think about it....but put to create more politics and tensions and polarisation.....rather than achieve something concrete in the end for the whole society).

There is obviously an easy way out of this all, simply have a process that takes on board both the govt side and university body side when coming up with candidates for rector selection (something quite similar to this is done here for university chancellors here in Canada)...in fact whole thing could have been prevented by creating a strong bipartisan institutional basis for this kind of thing....rather than have some action of executive fiat on one side completely.

But now both sides are invested in yet another downstream turbulence...no one wants to lose face and it seems to be another case of who is prepared to weather more. I see this increasingly for little to no reason worldwide....this polarisation and wanting it all rather than find some way to compromise especially if its not so major issue. People seem to be caught up on anything and everything. Few wan to entertain thought of "shoe on the other foot" and work to find compromise and agreement.

I feel a govt more than people on ground must see beyond this all.

I say this given power it wields compared to people on ground and given they are ruling on behalf of all their citizens (not just those that voted for them).

Thus their focus must always be conflict resolution with good institutional principles beforehand (involving all relevant stakeholders and of course themselves too w.r.t the bill they pay or argued importance to society etc).

A govt should focus its energies instead on much larger issues for what it is there for....not participating in wedge issues and creating more. These come at cost downstream to its people....and ultimately to the govt itself.

 

[KKF 2.0]

The students from Boğaziçi are mostly radicalized socialists. If we go by our constitution, most of them have to be considered as terrorist by law. They debate about topics like turning the Turkish society into a communist utopia or why Turkey needs to abolish Turkish as the official language.

They also criticize Atatürk although they don't dare doing it directly. Instead, they focus on his legacy. For instance, most of them vote for HDP, sympathise with PKK ideology or position themselves against Turkey's unitary state.

The best would be to close the entire university. Make an example and jail most of the students with sentences up to 20 years for terroristic activities.

 

[Xenon54]

Students Replied to this with a Historic Letter. I don't know what will happen but i think chaos awaits Turkey in the short term. I hope in the long term, meritocracy and democracy wins.

@xenon5434 @UkroTurk @Deliorman

Ortalık Karışacak.

That is a harsh letter, must have hurt his ego a lot to hear those from youngsters.

 

[Xenon54]

Everybody, I just want to hear you call the people in this picture terrorists.
Now decide whether they are terrorists or not! If you cannot call them terrorists, then you cannot throw stones at Erdogan because he talks with the PKK.

This gets shared every once in a while but this picture is from London during Gezi protests, not even remotely related to CHP.

 

[Xenon54]

The University is on such a great location... It’s a perfect place for a 5 star hotel and AVM for some of Erdogan’s cronies or the Emir of Qatar.

View attachment 13606

View attachment 13608

Or maybe a Mosque just like they did on the Amphitheater of the neighboring Rumeli hisari...

 

[Nilgiri]

The students from Boğaziçi are mostly radicalized socialists. If we go by our constitution, most of them have to be considered as terrorist by law. They debate about topics like turning the Turkish society into a communist utopia or why Turkey needs to abolish Turkish as the official language.

They also criticize Atatürk although they don't dare doing it directly. Instead, they focus on his legacy. For instance, most of them vote for HDP, sympathise with PKK ideology or position themselves against Turkey's unitary state.

The best would be to close the entire university. Make an example and jail most of the students with sentences up to 20 years for terroristic activities.

Thats a big rap sheet. You got evidence for this....that too for the entire group as whole?

This is an extreme approach....any protest can simply be labelled (tarred and feathered so to speak) this way by those powerful enough if we do not have evidence, courts and legal process.

 

[CAN_TR]

If someone of the students made terrorist slogans etc. why attacking the whole protest, wait until they are at home and collect them one by one, why fueling this already f**ked up situation?

And those provocateurs who don't give a shit about the Bogazci topic but mix in to spread their own bullshit should punished really hard.
For example that Keko in his 30s attacking Police and screaming around "you are killers".

 

[Sinan]

You say that the Islamists protested the rector, but then you say the AKP called everyone terrorists. You are contradicting yourself. I'll just laugh at that.

Your sentence is not understanble. Please, type in Turkish, i will translate that from others.

 

[Sinan]

You are the one who declared every "Islamist" you see a terrorist. I'm not sorry. You probably think that the people in front of you are always with a fixed mind ...

Nobody said that.

 

[Sinan]

Well at least something good from protests, they wil easily agree as friends sometime in future about eez disputes

Unfortunetly, youth and bright minds of a country isn't equal to it's government.

 

[Sinan]

I just remembered. Even though we view these "Islamists" as corrupt, CHP made an alliance with the Saadet Party in the elections, right? Now you claim that you are hostile to "Islamists". The more I think, the more I laugh at you. You are a total contradiction.

If you are talking about my sentences. Did i said, Islamist are corrupt, everyone is perfect ?

Kişi kendinden bilirmiş işi. I don't label everyone like AKP supporters.

 

[mulj]

Unfortunetly, youth and bright minds of a country isn't equal to it's government.

Lets be optimistic that those young folks will be future leaders and solve disputes, they are now friends afterall