Indonesia Indonesian Strategic Industries

[Madokafc]

Wood mock up?
Give it 40mm turret and it would be perfect.

For Indodefense purpose

 

[Anmdt]

Kaplan/Harimau hitam IFV variants .

https://www.facebook.com/www.IMIIndonesia/posts/2309257445864519

https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/product/kaplan-20-ngafv

Kaplan is a family armored tracked platform based around a modular chasis of in various sizes and power.
Kaplan MT is the medium tank developed from one of the Kaplan chasis.

The image highly resembles kaplan 20 afv/ifv chasis with a sharpshooter turret. In one of the designs the Kaplan 20 afv had asymetric turret ( as in ACV 15 modernization of Turkish army) and in my opinion the picture is retrieved from fnss website or brochures.

Bingo

https://www.epicos.com/sites/default/files//companies/fnss1.jpg

Could be something based on kaplan 30 as well but the build looks similar to the kaplan 20.

https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/news/kaplan-30-next-generation-armoured-fighting-vehicle-with-high-level-of-protection

For Indodefense purpose

There is probably a prototype or test /evaluation platform in FNSS why not just displaying it in the fair?

 

[Umigami]

If it's true that the mockup is for APC version, 40 mm would be overkill and took too much space. From the 3D model it looks like SABER25 mm turret, with the main armament consists of an ATK 25mm M242 Enhanced Bushmaster 25mm dual-feed automatic cannon which is provided with 240 rounds (150+90) of ready-use ammunition.
View attachment 13511

https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/news/fnss-new-saber25-for-armored-cavalry-vehicles

40mm is a new standard for future IFV

 

[Madokafc]

https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/product/kaplan-20-ngafv

Kaplan is a family armored tracked platform based around a modular chasis of in various sizes and power.
Kaplan MT is the medium tank developed from one of the Kaplan chasis.

The image highly resembles kaplan 20 afv/ifv chasis with a sharpshooter turret. In one of the designs the Kaplan 20 afv had asymetric turret ( as in ACV 15 modernization of Turkish army) and in my opinion the picture is retrieved from fnss website or brochures.

Bingo

https://www.epicos.com/sites/default/files//companies/fnss1.jpg

Could be something based on kaplan 30 as well but the build looks similar to the kaplan 20.

https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/news/kaplan-30-next-generation-armoured-fighting-vehicle-with-high-level-of-protection

There is probably a prototype or test /evaluation platform in FNSS why not just displaying it in the fair?

Logically it would be cheaper to commisioned a wooden mock up compared to arrange a full system transport via ship or aircraft cargo from Turkey to Indonesia with all the necessary insurance cost and so on

 

[R4duga]

If it's true that the mockup is for APC version, 40 mm would be overkill and took too much space. From the 3D model it looks like SABER25 mm turret, with the main armament consists of an ATK 25mm M242 Enhanced Bushmaster 25mm dual-feed automatic cannon which is provided with 240 rounds (150+90) of ready-use ammunition.
View attachment 13511

https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/news/fnss-new-saber25-for-armored-cavalry-vehicles

40mm is a new standard for future IFV

even the latest US GDELS Griffin III tank use 50mm XM913 calibre gun .

 

[R4duga]

badak with modular armor

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1733893430104371&id=1222648834562169

 

[R4duga]

https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/product/kaplan-20-ngafv

Kaplan is a family armored tracked platform based around a modular chasis of in various sizes and power.
Kaplan MT is the medium tank developed from one of the Kaplan chasis.

The image highly resembles kaplan 20 afv/ifv chasis with a sharpshooter turret. In one of the designs the Kaplan 20 afv had asymetric turret ( as in ACV 15 modernization of Turkish army) and in my opinion the picture is retrieved from fnss website or brochures.

Bingo

https://www.epicos.com/sites/default/files//companies/fnss1.jpg

Could be something based on kaplan 30 as well but the build looks similar to the kaplan 20.

https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/news/kaplan-30-next-generation-armoured-fighting-vehicle-with-high-level-of-protection

There is probably a prototype or test /evaluation platform in FNSS why not just displaying it in the fair?

i think it's really based on Kaplan/Harimau medium tank chassis that are forcefully converted into IFV , this is a mockup from one of the pindad designer who participate in kaplan mt designing .
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bul3Nm3B4ur/

current situation perhaps makes it hard to shipped the platform from turkey.

 

[Umigami]

i think it's really based on Kaplan/Harimau medium tank chassis that are forcefully converted into IFV , this is a mockup from one of the pindad designer who participate in kaplan mt designing .
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bul3Nm3B4ur/

Real Kaplans are IFV anyway. kembali ke marwah awal aja.

 

[Anmdt]

i think it's really based on Kaplan/Harimau medium tank chassis that are forcefully converted into IFV , this is a mockup from one of the pindad designer who participate in kaplan mt designing .
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bul3Nm3B4ur/

current situation perhaps makes it hard to shipped the platform from turkey

My post was rather referring to the second image in the original post. (The 3d render, not the mock up). That is Kaplan 20.

It is for sure the mock up doesn't look the like render given in the same picture. Imo the mock up doesn't look that good too. It is just good in the outer shell details.
There are much better turret options with RWS for an IFV.

 

[Captain Wales]

40 mm would be overkill and took too much space

maybe, but 40 mm is the trend now.
or we can use 40mm CTA, that saved more space than regular 40mm, but i think CTA is to complicated and expensive for our armed forces

 

[Var Dracon]

My post was rather referring to the second image in the original post. (The 3d render, not the mock up). That is Kaplan 20.

It is for sure the mock up doesn't look the like render given in the same picture. Imo the mock up doesn't look that good too. It is just good in the outer shell details.
There are much better turret options with RWS for an IFV.

According to Windu Paramarta (project manager and lead engineer of Pindad's medium tank project) the collaboration between Pindad and FNSS only concerns the creation of a new tracked platform that can carry big gun whose intellectual property is shared 50/50, Pindad is not given access to the Kaplan 20 and 30 platforms which are completely different vehicles. This is why regarding the 3D render, I think it is not Kaplan 20 or 30, which Pindad does not have any access.

If you look closely, the hull of the 3D render and Kaplan 20 is very different, unless you're playing blind.

Kaplan is a family armored tracked platform based around a modular chasis of in various sizes and power.
Kaplan MT is the medium tank developed from one of the Kaplan chasis.

Well this should have been debunked by Windu's statement. The very reason why FNSS want to collaborate with Pindad is because at that time they doesn't have big gun, rear-engined platform (by big gun it means 90 mm or more). Kaplan 10, 20 and 30 uses different hull.

Also according to Windu, FNSS called their tracked vehicles as Kaplan (exception of ACV and MAV), regardless the hull used. If you compare between Kaplan 10, Kaplan 20, Kaplan 30, and Kaplan MT, you will see that they actually used different hull: It is a matter of naming really - FNSS called their tracked vehicles as Kaplan (with exception of ACV family and MAV).

Compare this Harimau APC/IFV model with Kaplan 20

Kaplan 20

Does these looks like same vehicles to you?

Real Kaplans are IFV anyway. kembali ke marwah awal aja.

This is lol - lah. Pindad does not have access or rights to design, let alone produce, Kaplan 20 and 30. It means that inevitably pindad must develop tracked IFV itself.

Also bonus image: Harimau with some different vehicles

 

[Var Dracon]

40mm is a new standard for future IFV

even the latest US GDELS Griffin III tank use 50mm XM913 calibre gun .

maybe, but 40 mm is the trend now.
or we can use 40mm CTA, that saved more space than regular 40mm, but i think CTA is to complicated and expensive for our armed forces
View attachment 13569

Did you 3 even read? The concerns here is about APC vehicle, not IFV. Heck even the picture of the 3D model said APC with large-sized font. The person who said it is an IFV is Raduga, written in his original post. Umigami replied to my post with "40mm is a new standard for future IFV" eventhough I made it clear I am referring to the APC version presented in the picture. I am very aware that 40-50 mm is all the rage on IFV now. 40-50 mm for APC would took too many space. Also APC is expected to be produced more than IFV, their cost should be cheaper.

 

[Anmdt]

According to Windu Paramarta (project manager and lead engineer of Pindad's medium tank project) the collaboration between Pindad and FNSS only concerns the creation of a new tracked platform that can carry big gun whose intellectual property is shared 50/50, Pindad is not given access to the Kaplan 20 and 30 platforms which are completely different vehicles. This is why regarding the 3D render, I think it is not Kaplan 20 or 30, which Pindad does not have any access.

If you look closely, the hull of the 3D render and Kaplan 20 is very different, unless you're playing blind.

Well this should have been debunked by Windu's statement. The very reason why FNSS want to collaborate with Pindad is because at that time they doesn't have big gun, rear-engined platform (by big gun it means 90 mm or more). Kaplan 10, 20 and 30 uses different hull.

Also according to Windu, FNSS called their tracked vehicles as Kaplan (exception of ACV and MAV), regardless the hull used. If you compare between Kaplan 10, Kaplan 20, Kaplan 30, and Kaplan MT, you will see that they actually used different hull: It is a matter of naming really - FNSS called their tracked vehicles as Kaplan (with exception of ACV family and MAV).

Compare this Harimau APC/IFV model with Kaplan 20
View attachment 13573
Kaplan 20

View attachment 13574
Does these looks like same vehicles to you?

This is lol - lah. Pindad does not have access or rights to design, let alone produce, Kaplan 20 and 30. It means that inevitably pindad must develop tracked IFV itself.

Also bonus image: Harimau with some different vehicles
View attachment 13575
View attachment 13576

The second image is kaplan 20/30 pay attention to the profile or the parts protruding from front, that is for sure.
The rest you show, and the actual mock up is kaplan mt derivatives and i do not or didn't deny this, i earlier have told that my post was particularly for the second image which shows a kaplan 20/30

Well this should have been debunked by Windu's statement. The very reason why FNSS want to collaborate with Pindad is because at that time they doesn't have big gun, rear-engined platform (by big gun it means 90 mm or more). Kaplan 10, 20 and 30 uses differe

First of all, kaplan series was developed as an ifv /apc/ acv thus it has the engine in front. And they weren't called kaplan for sake of tagging a name. I suggest you to check different variants of kaplan 20 which doesn't resemble each other that much either.

Regarding to the naming: for example; kaplan sta is not an ifv but an anti-tank vehicle. Yet still named as kaplan silah tasiyici arac ( missile carrier). I was mistaken to assume kaplan 10 was 10 tonnes, in fact it is a modified variant of kaplan 20 to fit anti -tank role.
So, it is not called as kaplan for sake of being an acv/ifv/apc but rather because they are part of the same family sharing a similar chasis and structure. (Thus the kaplan mt).

Once a tank was being designed it was more logical to have the engine in rear side. Thus again i don't know how does this relate to pindad. I still don't know how a collaboration with pindad would help fnss to design a rear engine platform else than having a partner to share the costs/risks and have a potential customer(Indonesian army) for the developed medium tank platform.

Fnss collaborated with pindad because of the oppurtinity (and collaboration initiative between governments), not for sake of developing a rear engined MT platform. They were already capable of this, so that indonesia has chosen fnss as the solution partner.

 

[Var Dracon]

Komodo Armament on Instagram

115 likes, 3 comments - komodo_armament_indonesiaFebruary 10, 2021 on

www.instagram.com

Huh, Dananjaya patented his invention.
I'm waiting for Eli Gun though. It looks like he is trying to certify it.


Also I found this: Mr. Dananjaya claimed all the parts were locally made. For the source of the raw material I couldn't find anything.

 

[whatintarnation]

Komodo Armament on Instagram

115 likes, 3 comments - komodo_armament_indonesiaFebruary 10, 2021 on

www.instagram.com

Huh, Dananjaya patented his invention.
I'm waiting for Eli Gun though. It looks like he is trying to certify it.


Also I found this: Mr. Dananjaya claimed all the parts were locally made. For the source of the raw material I couldn't find anything.
View attachment 13833
View attachment 13834

That's more like it.

Pindad has some catching up to do

 

[Ravager]

Komodo Armament on Instagram

115 likes, 3 comments - komodo_armament_indonesiaFebruary 10, 2021 on

www.instagram.com

Huh, Dananjaya patented his invention.
I'm waiting for Eli Gun though. It looks like he is trying to certify it.


Also I found this: Mr. Dananjaya claimed all the parts were locally made. For the source of the raw material I couldn't find anything.
View attachment 13833
View attachment 13834

That's more like it.

Pindad has some catching up to do

If what written was true then at least we had some hope after all . TBH it's a high time we give some SOE some heathy dose of competitiveness reality .

 

[trishna_amrta]

Komodo Armament on Instagram

115 likes, 3 comments - komodo_armament_indonesiaFebruary 10, 2021 on

www.instagram.com

Huh, Dananjaya patented his invention.
I'm waiting for Eli Gun though. It looks like he is trying to certify it.


Also I found this: Mr. Dananjaya claimed all the parts were locally made. For the source of the raw material I couldn't find anything.
View attachment 13833
View attachment 13834

Now that is worthy news indeed Particularly regarding the barrel. Komodo should also push it forward to magazine and also better ammo (tighter tolerance)

 

[Var Dracon]

People criticize Harimau being so tall, and because of that people thought that the specification's height is wrong (more than 2,456 m). Let's calculate the proportion of the specification

Calculation 1

Calculation 2

After the calculations , it is concluded that only the Calculation 1 can be used, and the result that it is still fall WITHIN the specification.

 

[R4duga]

People criticize Harimau being so tall, and because of that people thought that the specification's height is wrong (more than 2,456 m). Let's calculate the proportion of the specification
View attachment 14059
Calculation 1
View attachment 14060
Calculation 2
View attachment 14061
After the calculations , it is concluded that only the Calculation 1 can be used, and the result that it is still fall WITHIN the specification.

my only critic about harimau is the weight inclined to the back due to heavy engine perhaps , you could really see that harimau hitam leaning a little bit toward the back hull and really visible when the tank driving forward , height isn't really an issue , there's so many modern NGFV that has an high profile hull , such as russian Kurganmashzavod kurganets-25 , BWP borsuk , GD Ajax , Elbit carmel etc are above 3 metre height including the turret.

 

[Umigami]

Inclined to the back
But at the very same event, it looks OK when moving.

Too much inconsistency.

But factory fresh hull seems to be alright
(This is the same hull, few days after landing in Indonesia)

Is it possible inclination happen because of wearing after marathon testing?