Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[Madokafc]

You said before that you wish they replaced the RBS with mortar instead.
I think we have KAPA for that role. While not only can delivered howitzer the kapa also can ferrying 2 mortar team along with the howitzer it self (I am not relly sure, some one maybe can add more Possibilitty here)

My point is we cannot decide where we can embark troops. It depend on deeps, tide, topografy and other thing else.
Sometimes It could be in the front of enemy machine gun it self (example, open area like normandy. thats why US and Allied force heavily depending on carpet bombing and bombardment by navy).
While doctrin of beaching operation is start with 'again..' Massive bombardment , TNI AL In this chase dont have battle ship for this role.
from my perpective fitting rocket on this boat is more reliable for providing fire power since we can trust sari bahana and pindad to provided loots of rocket.

You Miss a whole point, this thing is intended to be used by Army, not Marines. Then the Army intended to build Rawa Sungai Laut dan Pantai specialized units, before they are already acquired some KC Boats (the ones looking like CB90), then Arisgator but all of them is not suffice to handle their requirement for fast mobilization is such specific area along with heavy hitting firepower organic within the system. This unit supposed to be the Army equivalent of Mechanized Infantry but for such geography area (sea, swamp, beaches and such) they are intended to build such units in Maluku and Riau Islands provinces first.

 

[NEKO]

You said before that you wish they replaced the RBS with mortar instead.
I think we have KAPA for that role. While not only can delivered howitzer the kapa also can ferrying 2 mortar team along with the howitzer it self (I am not relly sure, some one maybe can add more Possibilitty here)

My point is we cannot decide where we can embark troops. It depend on deeps, tide, topografy and other thing else.
Sometimes It could be in the front of enemy machine gun it self (example, open area like normandy. thats why US and Allied force heavily depending on carpet bombing and bombardment by navy).
While doctrin of beaching operation is start with 'again..' Massive bombardment , TNI AL In this chase dont have battle ship for this role.
from my perpective fitting rocket on this boat is more reliable for providing fire power since we can trust sari bahana and pindad to provided loots of rocket.

What kind of rocket are you talking about? Something like MLRS? Right now we can use the main gun from escort ship for shore bombardment we can even use parchim asrock. But battleship is already obsolete tho, though it have smaller calibre compared to battleship main gun, modern naval gun have high precision and high rate of fire, so it still can deliver large quantities of explosives. Its not new for our navy for shore bombardment.

Btw the tank boat can immediately head to the beach after the convoy arrived at the ops area and deliver troops immediately without wasting precious time.
Amphibious vehicle and LCU that is carried by our LPD take some time to disembark from the LPD and the amphibious vehicle are slow when travelling on the water.

LST is slower and not as nimble as the tank boat but can immediately head to the beach.

Should the tank boat head to the beach first? Or wait the others so our amphibious forces can land at the same time?

 

[NEKO]

You Miss a whole point, this thing is intended to be used by Army, not Marines. Then the Army intended to build Rawa Sungai Laut dan Pantai specialized units, before they are already acquired some KC Boats (the ones looking like CB90), then Arisgator but all of them is not suffice to handle their requirement for fast mobilization is such specific area along with heavy hitting firepower organic within the system. This unit supposed to be the Army equivalent of Mechanized Infantry but for such geography area (sea, swamp, beaches and such) they are intended to build such units in Maluku and Riau Islands provinces first.

But if marines want it then let them be, though they better wait and see first, does this concept is good, does the boat quality is good and will this fit to their doctrine.

I hope this won't be used for regular patrol.

 

[Madokafc]

What kind of rocket are you talking about? Something like MLRS? Right now we can use the main gun from escort ship for shore bombardment we can even use parchim asrock. But battleship is already obsolete tho, though it have smaller calibre compared to battleship main gun, modern naval gun have high precision and high rate of fire, so it still can deliver large quantities of explosives. Its not new for our navy for shore bombardment.

Btw the tank boat can immediately head to the beach after the convoy arrived at the ops area and deliver troops immediately without wasting precious time.
Amphibious vehicle and LCU that is carried by our LPD take some time to disembark from the LPD and the amphibious vehicle are slow when travelling on the water.

LST is slower and not as nimble as the tank boat but can immediately head to the beach.

Should the tank boat head to the beach first? Or wait the others so our amphibious forces can land at the same time?

I don't think they would use this units like how they are using Marine corps though. Basically they are mechanized infantry, it just they got Boats and Tank Boat as their main weapon system.

 

[Madokafc]

But if marines want it then let them be, though they better wait and see first, does this concept is good, does the boat quality is good and will this fit to their doctrine.

I hope this won't be used for regular patrol.

The inner working behind Tank Boat actually very different with how Marine corps worked though. The Marine corps working more or less as the fullfledged assault forces by mass of Arms, delivered by Ships for long distance from home base. That's why the Marines would like to use the Naval assets (Amphibious assault ships) to carry their equipment and personel.

 

[Anmdt]

I thought at first that active protection system like AMAP-ADS or Trophy will be sufficient, but since this is a boat, a close in weapon system will be more suitable.

Actually an APS suits much better for a landing boat, than a CIWS. This boat meant to do landing more-likely to be engaged by ATGMs than sea-skimming anti-ship missiles.

Meanwhile LSTs and LPDs should be equipped with one/two CIWS at first place, before than a landing boat.

In my opinion even the large armored vehicle (unmanned or manned i am not sure) turret is unnecessary and complicates the build. It could be a lot better when replaced with two 30mm RCWS, the mast can be equipped with an individual E/O dedicated for captain/commander while each RCWS having their own E/O for better engagement and situational awareness.

In such a small boat, carrying 20 units to land it is most crucial to have situational awareness, early detection of threats and eliminating a coastal ATGM even before approaching within its range. They were quite innovative with the boat itself, so they can go a little further and make the mast stationary,install an advanced variant of perimeter surveillance radar (converted from land version) to scan beaches before landing.

Further more MANPADS can be RC (like Simbad-RC) and main E/O can be dedicated for aerial observation while E/O of RCWS is watching the perimeter.

Also, most RCWSs enable an upgrade to have a quadruple medium or long range ATGM which can further be used before landing. Detect with perimeter radar, destroy with ATGM if necessary, or with RCWS.

You Miss a whole point, this thing is intended to be used by Army, not Marines. Then the Army intended to build Rawa Sungai Laut dan Pantai specialized units, before they are already acquired some KC Boats (the ones looking like CB90), then Arisgator but all of them is not suffice to handle their requirement for fast mobilization is such specific area along with heavy hitting firepower organic within the system. This unit supposed to be the Army equivalent of Mechanized Infantry but for such geography area (sea, swamp, beaches and such) they are intended to build such units in Maluku and Riau Islands provinces first.

And i was about to ask why is this being discussed in army thread, now it explains why it is more oriented to be tank and APC like.

 

[NEKO]

So the army will have amphibious forces (lite version) that work independently but can work together with the navy for large scale amphibious ops, does army only use their LST for pergeseran kekuatan only till now? Or they already involved in combat exercise? That one time in natuna I only see the LST doing kurir job delivering Leopard, and I think its unloaded in port, i wanna see them beaching them self in the beach and unload leopard, meski bakalan lebih rempong buat masalah geografisnya.

What will the army do in offensive ops against opfor controlled island, will they wait the navy and marines finish their job first then they will send their LST?

 

[NEKO]

20 units

New info is 60 units.

 

[Parry Brima]

Yes, this is more like for amphibious ops, for air defense should rely to escort vessels (definitely need something more than mica).
Mortar would be really good isn't it? With it's trajectory mortar can be shoot from behind the "bridge" not exposed to enemy and won't interfere the turret operation.

Hiding among the fleet to be precise, the one that hide right in the middle of the fleet would be our LPD.

All jamer, decoys, ecm, active air defense (missile and gun) you can relly to the escort vessels.

I believe the main mission for this vessel is to transport personnel independently without any protection from the bigger vessel. That's why I'm not convinced it gives enough protection to the 60 soldiers on board itself.

Needs more weapons. Either two turrets or two RCWS. Also AAG to defend itself against loitering munition. Armored hull for the critical/weak parts of the ship.

 

[Anmdt]

New info is 60 units.

without gears maybe?

 

[reashot_xigwin]

I believe the main mission for this vessel is to transport personnel independently without any protection from the bigger vessel. That's why I'm not convinced it gives enough protection to the 60 soldiers on board itself.

Needs more weapons. Either two turrets or two RCWS. Also AAG to defend itself against loitering munition. Armored hull for the critical/weak parts of the ship.

What it means is that it can go as far enough but still within the range of supporting ships. As long as there's couple of ships in the back providing cover it's enough. Putting more weapons on the Tboat will just makes it heavier and turning it into more of an attractive target to blow up. The tank boat is mostly meant for riverine operations and why there's an interest of selling it to the nigerian armed forces for anti-smugglers operation in the delta.

TankBoat good no need change.

 

[NEKO]

Armored hull for the critical/weak parts of the ship

Front side is priority.

 

[NEKO]

TankBoat good no need change.

Maybe the paint job. The color choice is because of the area of operation so its okay but the camo pattern, uh...

 

[FPXAllen]

I believed he miss understanding this boat purpose.

This boat MAIN purpose is to deliver troops to shore and while the troops embark the turret of this boat give bantuan tembak role.

In amphibious landing operations, ships like this will move in groups and to be able to reach their destination. the shore must be bombarded first to minimize the threat that comes from enemy.

This is not corvette or frigate. No need close in weapon system to defend it self while this boat hiding it self right in the middle of the fleet.

I didn't. While it's true that one of its purpose is to deliver troops right on the beach head, but it can also be used for patrol or for strike in the littoral zone. What's more, there's also a possibility to make a better armored version with reduced troop capacity or to discard it altogether for this purpose.

As such, the need for multipurpose weapon station that can also destroy incoming missiles (including AShM) will be obvious.

I wrote before that if the current 30 mm turret can be configured for this, then there will be less need for anti aircraft missile or dedicated RCWS.

Look, what I'm trying to say is I'm picturing scenarios where this boat can be used effectively. What's clear to me that It's not only for troop delivery or riverine patrol which is a lot more confined than in the littoral zone, but it has potential to be much more than those.

Lastly, while the intended user is the army - for starter, at least - but with further development down the road it's not impossible that the navy or marine corps will be interested in it as well.

 

[BBOn]

You Miss a whole point, this thing is intended to be used by Army, not Marines. Then the Army intended to build Rawa Sungai Laut dan Pantai specialized units, before they are already acquired some KC Boats (the ones looking like CB90), then Arisgator but all of them is not suffice to handle their requirement for fast mobilization is such specific area along with heavy hitting firepower organic within the system. This unit supposed to be the Army equivalent of Mechanized Infantry but for such geography area (sea, swamp, beaches and such) they are intended to build such units in Maluku and Riau Islands provinces first.

I didn't. While it's true that one of its purpose is to deliver troops right on the beach head, but it can also be used for patrol or for strike in the littoral zone. What's more, there's also a possibility to make a better armored version with reduced troop capacity or to discard it altogether for this purpose.

As such, the need for multipurpose weapon station that can also destroy incoming missiles (including AShM) will be obvious.

I wrote before that if the current 30 mm turret can be configured for this, then there will be less need for anti aircraft missile or dedicated RCWS.

Look, what I'm trying to say is I'm picturing scenarios where this boat can be used effectively. What's clear to me that It's not only for troop delivery or riverine patrol which is a lot more confined than in the littoral zone, but it has potential to be much more than those.

Lastly, while the intended user is the army - for starter, at least - but with further development down the road it's not impossible that the navy or marine corps will be interested in it as well.

And I am the one Get blamed for bring this discussion to be more like navy thing

 

[FPXAllen]

Actually an APS suits much better for a landing boat, than a CIWS. This boat meant to do landing more-likely to be engaged by ATGMs than sea-skimming anti-ship missiles.

Meanwhile LSTs and LPDs should be equipped with one/two CIWS at first place, before than a landing boat.

In my opinion even the large armored vehicle (unmanned or manned i am not sure) turret is unnecessary and complicates the build. It could be a lot better when replaced with two 30mm RCWS, the mast can be equipped with an individual E/O dedicated for captain/commander while each RCWS having their own E/O for better engagement and situational awareness.

In such a small boat, carrying 20 units to land it is most crucial to have situational awareness, early detection of threats and eliminating a coastal ATGM even before approaching within its range. They were quite innovative with the boat itself, so they can go a little further and make the mast stationary,install an advanced variant of perimeter surveillance radar (converted from land version) to scan beaches before landing.

Further more MANPADS can be RC (like Simbad-RC) and main E/O can be dedicated for aerial observation while E/O of RCWS is watching the perimeter.

Also, most RCWSs enable an upgrade to have a quadruple medium or long range ATGM which can further be used before landing. Detect with perimeter radar, destroy with ATGM if necessary, or with RCWS.



And i was about to ask why is this being discussed in army thread, now it explains why it is more oriented to be tank and APC like.

True. If it's only used for landing boat or its operation is limited in and around river or coastal areas.

But this platform / form factor is really flexible since it can also configured / deployed as fast attack craft from the interior river up to the littoral zone.

 

[Ravager]

without gears maybe?

What would it use then ??? Bamboos stick ?? The idea of specialized transport vehicle is to ease the transportation of batle ready personels .

 

[NEKO]

Because it is the first of its kind.

CONFUSION 100 (us)

 

[Anmdt]

Because it is the first of its kind.

CONFUSION 100 (us)

It is just catamaran and drawn with a turret on top.
It has some monohull kinds (like CB90, mark IV), or hovercraft kinds.
But it is best of the all, carrying more troop, faster with smaller engines, has spacious deck and can carry a heavy cannon/ multiple RCWS on on top thanks to its better stability, or other remote controlled AA missiles or more RCWS on front and rear deck when needed.
My point was,if it is designed for rivers and swamps, in tight areas, multiple RCWS could do better work than a turret-gun.

True. If it's only used for landing boat or its operation is limited in and around river or coastal areas.

But this platform / form factor is really flexible since it can also configured / deployed as fast attack craft from the interior river up to the littoral zone.

Practically many FIC/FACs around ~1-1.5 meters draft capable of that flexibility.
So i am rather talking about platform specific properties/capabilities which would emphasize its characteristic, difference from monohulls,such as purposing large rear-deck and above the bridge space, like installing a heavy gun or multiple RCWS etc.

For what i have said above, actually perimeter survaliance radar is more crucial in rivers/swamps/tight shallow areas.

 

[Parry Brima]

The tank boat is mostly meant for riverine operations.

This tank boat is designed to be able to transport personnel to max 600 nm (1100 km) in 9 knots (17 kmh). So it's not only intended to cross the river or strait. The army can actually use this to transport 60 Raiders from Kepri to Natuna if needed (that's probably about 600 km?).

there's an interest of selling it to the nigerian armed forces for anti-smugglers operation in the delta.

PT Lundin should offer several variants of this tank boat (if not already) to cater various requirements for export.