Turkey expects to lay ground for Kanal Istanbul project in summer

[Nutuk]

Shows what an idiot idea the canal project is. Will be a way to leech out Turkey by foreign investors

 

[TR_123456]

Shows what an idiot idea the canal project is. Will be a way to leech out Turkey by foreign investors

It all depends on what the outcome of the elections will be.

 

[Zafer]

You need to factor in the world population increase which is supposed to be 25% from 2020 to 2050 and more beyond. You also need to factor in cruise industry growth towards the still less explored Black Sea region. You need to factor in the Belt and Road Initiative where some of the freight will be dropped to the Black Sea where they will be shipped to their destinations from there. While the ship numbers decreased over time due to the increase in ship sizes the amount of cargo carried continued to grow.

Larger ships occupy the passage for longer than smaller ships.
There will be need for larger passage capacity to and from the Black Sea.

 

[CAN_TR]

We also should consider the main fact that Qatar family and surprise also Albayrak family invested in properties where the canal should be build.

2007 - 2018 (11 years) drops about nearly 30%
2020 - 2050 (30 years) increase of 100% expected and yeah totally not a$$ pulled growth numbers.

 

[Zafer]

We also should consider the main fact that Qatar family and surprise also Albayrak family invested in properties where the canal should be build.

2007 - 2018 (11 years) drops about nearly 30%
2020 - 2050 (30 years) increase of 100% expected and yeah totally not a$$ pulled growth numbers.

You are just grossly looking at numbers. Delivery times of goods have increased their importance. People can not afford to wait long for deliveries.

 

[Nutuk]

You are just grossly looking at numbers. Delivery times of goods have increased their importance. People can not afford to wait long for deliveries.

I would care less if the Turks have to pay for Bulgarians getting their goods on time.

If they make the deals without state "passage guarantees" I could a bit agree, but I know that it will be with state passage guarantees and Turkey will be leeched and bleed for the next 80 years or so

 

[Zafer]

I would care less if the Turks have to pay for Bulgarians getting their goods on time.

If they make the deals without state "passage guarantees" I could a bit agree, but I know that it will be with state passage guarantees and Turkey will be leeched and bleed for the next 80 years or so

The world economy is doing bad now and we have a good chance to build the canal at a lower cost.
We won't have to make concessions to make it happen. It will cost around $10bn and it has a chance to pay it off in a few years. It is economically very profitable and politically very beneficial. If it were in other nations they would have done it decades ago. We had to build many other projects until the priority came for the canal. This will be a crown jewel for the Turkish economy and Turkish hegemony.

Long live Türkiye !

 

[Nutuk]

Turkish hegemony of what?

 

[Zafer]

Turkish hegemony of what?

Turkish hegemony/sovereignty on Turkish land. We held the land but we underutilized it like we didn't own it.

 

[Nutuk]

Turkish hegemony on Turkish land. We held the land but we underutilized it like we didn't own it.

Sorry but I have not heard a bigger BS than this lately.

So we get hegemony of our own lands? I have heard a lot of BS arguments for the Canal project but this one is in top 3 most funny ones

 

[CAN_TR]

The world economy is doing bad now and we have a good chance to build the canal at a lower cost.
We won't have to make concessions to make it happen. It will cost around $10bn and it has a chance to pay it off in a few years. It is economically very profitable and politically very beneficial. If it were in other nations they would have done it decades ago. We had to build many other projects until the priority came for the canal. This will be a crown jewel for the Turkish economy and Turkish hegemony.

Long live Türkiye !

Did Corona somehow affected the construction sector positive only the other negative? Please enlight us which chance of lower cost?

Name me three (3) economic and politic benefits of Canal Istanbul.

No other country would construct a Canal right beneath a natural strait, it's like Spain would construct a Canal to give shipping companies another "option" to avoid the Gibraltar strait and even pay for it

 

[Zafer]

Sorry but I have not heard a bigger BS than this lately.

So we get hegemony of our own lands? I have heard a lot of BS arguments for the Canal project but this one is in top 3 most funny ones

That's because you overlook the realities and can not wrap your head around the fact that Turks have been miserable guardians of a homeland full of natural resources. Making Canal Istanbul is another means that will make good use of geographic advantages and will bring riches to the nation. We have only recently started making use of our natural resources which means we have started to become the hegemons of our land.

You should be able to see this much.

 

[Nutuk]

What has natural resources to do with a canal.

So the Netherlands filled the whole country with canals to get hegemony and use natural resources? Do you believe yourself with what you are saying, I am worried about you

 

[Zafer]

What has natural resources to do with a canal.

So the Netherlands filled the whole country with canals to get hegemony and use natural resources? Do you believe yourself with what you are saying, I am worried about you

You worry about yourself, a waterway is a natural resource.
If Dutch didn't have the canals they would have wasted their utility, I have sailed through them.
If you are not utilizing what your geography is offering you, you are not the master of that land but a mere guardian.

There are billions of dollars of income the Canal Istanbul has to offer Turkey every year.

 

[Ecderha]

Seriously who thinks a canal is a good idea?
The clever ppl think that mate clever ppl.Why? check below

It is Strategically good idea and we should do it
- From point of view the Business - Canal will create link to the Airport, this will ADD MORE and MORE value assets, money flow will be increased. Airport will become bigger HUB connecting Air with Water as route it will be shorter route for Africa, Middile east and Asia to used.
This will lead other routes which are used to be lost am talking about France, Netherland for a start.

-From point of view the Military - Turkiye is vulnerable from Europe direction ( check history Russian came from there, West parties came from there too . It will be used in future as possible attack too). So this canal will create other obstacle, increasing difficulty for the enemy.

-About the Montreux Convention - Others have to pay for passage AS SHOULD BE and also if you are hostile you must ask Turkiye permission. Those both does not happens, because of Montreux. Turkiye losing big time here.
Other thing is that Military have to have saying to all hostiles which use the passage, but now Military does not have this. ALL because the Montreux Convention. (Example: Russia navy use canal to bring weapons to Syria and those are used for killing Turkish soldiers. If they use AIR or other route will be hell of money to pay, will have to route through dozens of countries which will create obstacles even it may not be possible for them, but by using canal they are laughing )





So about FUTURE and ppl which are BLIND and HATE Turkiye. "Montreux stays than you have a canal where you ask passage toll while a few kilometers further there is a free entrance, doesn't make much sense to me"?!
Above saying is for NAIVE ppl and also EXCUSE not to pay and use for free and even if you are hostile you can make Turks to be on losing side. No, No and No.

I mean read above "Others have to PAY for the passage (as it is with Panam, Suez canals) as should be and also if you are HOSTILE you must ask Turkiye permission."

So when second/new canal is made. I am guessing that following will happened. Ship will be stuck and sink in proper place in current canal which will make route DANGERUS to be used for Big ships and also excuse for Turkiye to NOT allow other foreigner ships to use the passage at lease for some time. THEN it will be ask to use the NEW canal

 

[Nutuk]

There are billions of dollars of income the Canal Istanbul has to offer Turkey every year.

How? And for whom?

Firstly there is a free passage, called Bosphorus

Secondly suppose there are captains willing to pay for a canal passage while there is a free open door next to it, who will get that money? Turkey or the investors?

Thirdly like with all investments before (investors demanding a minimum passage guarantee or else the state to pay for all the non passages) what will be the gain for Turkey? That Bulgaria and Romania receive their goods a few hours earlier?



You are talking about non existing billions of dolars of income, the number of ships passing are declining each year (so state guarantee would also have to pay each year more to these investor leeches)

If it is so lucrative let investors invest without state guarantee on passages, they won't you know that too!

 

[Zafer]

How? And for whom?

Firstly there is a free passage, called Bosphorus

Secondly suppose there are captains willing to pay for a canal passage while there is a free open door next to it, who will get that money? Turkey or the investors?

Thirdly like with all investments before (investors demanding a minimum passage guarantee or else the state to pay for all the non passages) what will be the gain for Turkey? That Bulgaria and Romania receive their goods a few hours earlier?



You are talking about non existing billions of dolars of income, the number of ships passing are declining each year (so state guarantee would also have to pay each year more to these investor leeches)

If it is so lucrative let investors invest without state guarantee on passages, they won't you know that too!

You can question every investment made with that same argument, like the Istanbul Airport.

That free passage called the Bosporus is a free flow of water with lots of dangers for the ships and the city. These dangers can be reflected in to precautions taken which can slow down the traffic causing delays. A longer separation of ship movements can be enforced for example.

Ships normally wait for 14-30 (?) hours for passage. Every minute of wait costs money to the shipper. In which case instead of waiting they would rather pay a fee to take the highway which is the Canal Istanbul.

Ships which will be loaded with goods at the east end of Black Sea can be shipped through the passages to the Mediterranean and beyond.

Stop looking at investors like they are monsters, they only hold the projects for a limited time. And nobody will give much profit to them. Agreements can be made to spread the lease over a long time with no guaranties made or can be for shorter times with guaranties. Canal Istanbul is not and urgency project and it can be made for longer periods.

 

[Zafer]

Minister related to Canal Istanbul made some statements.
Construction will take 6 years.
Current calculations show $600-700mn revenue per year.

Imagine you are sitting at an underground restaurant on the sides of Canal Istanbul and watching the marine life swimming through the passage as you taste your food and sip your drinks.

Bakan Karaismailoğlu Kanal İstanbul açıklaması: Hepsini bu yıl yapacağız

Ekonomi - Ulaştırma ve Altyapı Bakanı Adil Karaismailoğlu, Kanal İstanbul’da ihalelerin hepsinin bu yıl yapılacağını açıkladı. Karaismailoğlu, "Marmara Bölgesi'nin gelecek resminde en stratejik, katma değerli proje yapımına kısa süre sonra başlayacağımız Kanal İstanbul olacak" dedi.

ekonomi.haber7.com

 

[Nutuk]

You can question every investment made with that same argument, like the Istanbul Airport.

That's not true, if you make public investments like in hospitals, Mosques etc. you do not calculate in profit but in public service.

The canal project is not for public service, it is for profit (your own statement)

That free passage called the Bosporus is a free flow of water with lots of dangers for the ships and the city. These dangers can be reflected in to precautions taken which can slow down the traffic causing delays. A longer separation of ship movements can be enforced for example.

If so why aren't these precautions taken already? I do not like to talk on assumptions.
If these dangers are there, these precautions already have to be taken place, no? Why are they not

Ships normally wait for 14-30 (?) hours for passage. Every minute of wait costs money to the shipper. In which case instead of waiting they would rather pay a fee to take the highway which is the Canal Istanbul.

That's the problem for those companies, not Turkey's problem! Those waiting time calculations, profit calculations have never been published, why? Does those waiting times offset against all the environmental damage the canal is going to produce? The canal is surely going to pollute a lot of fresh water reservoirs and sallinate arable lands

Ships which will be loaded with goods at the east end of Black Sea can be shipped through the passages to the Mediterranean and beyond.

Stop looking at investors like they are monsters, they only hold the projects for a limited time. And nobody will give much profit to them. Agreements can be made to spread the lease over a long time with no guaranties made or can be for shorter times with guaranties. Canal Istanbul is not and urgency project and it can be made for longer periods.

The contrary is true with bridge and highway investments in which the state pays for all the guaranteed passages. In which way will the canal be different, will the state not give passage guarantees? Answer that last one please.

 

[Zafer]

The contrary is true with bridge and highway investments in which the state pays for all the guaranteed passages. In which way will the canal be different, will the state not give passage guarantees? Answer that last one please.

It depends on what the investor want. If they are OK to hold the lease for a longer time and get the money from the Canal alone then no guaranties is an option. If there is a lack of investor interest in the project then the investors may want the return on investment in a shorter time in which case you need to take part of the risk and guaranties some revenue. At the end the profit will be commensurate with the risk they are taking.