TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

mTT · May 13, 2025

mTT said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1922288882663469174

24 Hürjet

Saithan · May 13, 2025

Let's see the signed documents first.

Sanchez · May 13, 2025

Saithan said:
Let's see the signed documents first.

I'm expecting a Spanish local participation and development award to be signed rather than a deal between TAI and Spanish MoD. They will probably develop a Spanish Hürjet which will then enter its tests to be given the award. Let's see.

Reading the article:

"This event will mark the signing of the MoU as a framework for future collaboration between Spanish industry and the Air Force's new advanced trainer program.

According to various industry sources, the Spanish program would consist of at least two phases. The first phase, apparently already finalized, would include aircraft produced entirely in Turkey but certified by the Spanish industry.

A second batch is pending finalization, and its characteristics regarding Spanish systems and the participation of Spanish industry are currently being negotiated."

So both a direct sale and the signing of developing a Spanish version, that's great news.

OPTIMUS · May 13, 2025

The Spanish market is open for HÜRJET. I expect that total orders worldwide for this aircraft will reach 400.

boredaf · May 13, 2025

OPTIMUS said:
The Spanish market is open for HÜRJET. I expect that total orders worldwide for this aircraft will reach 400.

Based on what, exactly? 400 would make it one of the best selling jets of all time, what makes you think it'll reach those numbers?

Saithan · May 14, 2025

I'm thinking, "Yeah right, TuAF has ordered how many as of now ?"

Pokemonte13 · May 14, 2025

I think up to a hundred because of the engines they ordered from GE

mTT · May 14, 2025

Saithan said:
I'm thinking, "Yeah right, TuAF has ordered how many as of now ?"

TAI General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu:
We are already building 16 airplanes for the Turkish Air Force. I can say that our serial production has also started. We are expecting another serious order from the Turkish Air Force. We hope that it will be finalized within this year.

Saithan · May 14, 2025

Pokemonte13 said:
I think up to a hundred because of the engines they ordered from GE

mTT said:
TAI General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu:
We are already building 16 airplanes for the Turkish Air Force. I can say that our serial production has also started. We are expecting another serious order from the Turkish Air Force. We hope that it will be finalized within this year.

I know there has been some talks, but I don't remember the sale of 90+ engines being approved by the senate/house. (notice the amount is not mentioned anywhere as I can see).

Turkey Requests US Approval to Buy GE Engine for Domestic Jet

Turkey has formally requested the purchase of GE Aerospace F404 engine from the US for its locally-developed Hurjet light attack aircraft.

thedefensepost.com

What I also remember is that around 20 engines could be bought due to amount being small and not enough to warrant senate/houses approval. When Hürjet first prototype was going to take shape/form.

I think it was because it was going to be a used for trainerjet / prototypes that is was possible to get up to 20 or so.

So unless they deliver more than 20, I am thinking that's what they will produce and not more.

EDIT: I did ask Copilot for an update on the goddamn acquisition letter, and it's still being processed in the US.

The approval process for Türkiye's request to purchase F404 engines from the US is currently progressing through the US Congress. According to recent updates, there have been positive signals, and no significant issues are anticipated at this stage
1
. Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) CEO Mehmet Demiroglu expressed optimism about receiving favorable news within the next few months
1
.

I understand your preference for direct access to the approval process. Unfortunately, specific details and documents related to defense procurement, such as Türkiye's request for F404 engines, are typically not publicly accessible due to their sensitive nature
1

2
. However, you can stay updated through reputable news sources that cover defense and international relations, such as Türkiye Today and Defense News
1

2
.

Pokemonte13 · May 14, 2025

Saithan said:
I know there has been some talks, but I don't remember the sale of 90+ engines being approved by the senate/house. (notice the amount is not mentioned anywhere as I can see).

Turkey Requests US Approval to Buy GE Engine for Domestic Jet

Turkey has formally requested the purchase of GE Aerospace F404 engine from the US for its locally-developed Hurjet light attack aircraft.

thedefensepost.com

What I also remember is that around 20 engines could be bought due to amount being small and not enough to warrant senate/houses approval. When Hürjet first prototype was going to take shape/form.

I think it was because it was going to be a used for trainerjet / prototypes that is was possible to get up to 20 or so.

So unless they deliver more than 20, I am thinking that's what they will produce and not more.

Airforce wants to replace the F5 and T38 thats at least 70 aircraft if not more secondly if they only produce 20 aircraft then it wouldn't be worth the development cost. If the americans won't sell us engines for trainers than kaan will be grounded till domestic is available.
i think hürjet could be a good alternativ to other Light jet if we can make it cheap enough since we have a larger weapons portfolio than korea and italia.

Pokemonte13 · May 14, 2025

I forgot to say navy also wants a version of Hürjet for mügem so about 20-35 for navy allone and perhaps airforce will buy them as a replacement for f16

Saithan · May 14, 2025

I also want some hürjet, and I'm bloody certain that if they cost the same as a piece of fish we could all afford one.

My point is wants and coulds are not certain terms. and if wishes were like fish in the sea, then we'd all have a net to catch them all.

Plus I edited my post to point out that the acquisition is still pending approval. Let's see how many years it will take, or decades.

Zafer · May 14, 2025

	Hürjet Sales Prospect (considering also possible re-engining)
Customer	Hürjet Trainer	Hürjet Fighter
Turkish Air Force	16 + ?	?
Turkish Navy	16 ?	30 ?
Spanish Air Force	24 ?	?
Airbus countries ?	?	?
total	56	30
grand total		86

Considering a possible re-engining with the planned Baykar 20k lbf engine in about 5 years how could the Hürjet sales progress in the decade ahead.

Sanchez · May 14, 2025

Zafer said:
Considering a possible re-engining with the planned Baykar 20k lbf engine in about 5 years

Make that 15. To add, there's nothing to suggest yet that Baykar's 20k frankenstein will be a human rated engine.

Zafer · May 14, 2025

Sanchez said:
Make that 15.

I would stick with 5. Once the inhuman engine is made it can go to a human rated version on a fast track, it only takes like 100 engine orders to make if profitable.

Sanchez · May 14, 2025

Zafer said:
Once the inhuman engine is made it can go to a human rated version on a fast track

Not at all, that's not how it works at all. You can't fast track a human rated engine. We see what we are going through with TS1400.
--

Sanchez said:
Could we see a TAI/Airbus MoU there?

Here it comes, our little baby is going international.

Zafer · May 14, 2025

Sanchez said:
Not at all, that's not how it works at all. You can't fast track a human rated engine. We see what we are going through with TS1400.

TS1400 carries 14 humans, Hürjet only carries one or two.

It is not that that you have to age the materials that depends on time it is only about the learning curve, if you experiment and learn quicker you can make the engine quicker. We know how quick Baykar has been in learning. If we were thinking old school TB3 would not have flown from TCG Anadolu in such a short time as some members used to claim.

So Baykar have to make it quick if they want to claim a bigger cut from Hürjet's market and other markets that maybe opening for Kızılelma too. And I believe they will.

BalkanTurk90 · May 14, 2025

Pokemonte13 said:
Airforce wants to replace the F5 and T38 thats at least 70 aircraft if not more secondly if they only produce 20 aircraft then it wouldn't be worth the development cost. If the americans won't sell us engines for trainers than kaan will be grounded till domestic is available.
i think hürjet could be a good alternativ to other Light jet if we can make it cheap enough since we have a larger weapons portfolio than korea and italia.

there are russian or chinise engines avalible until ours is ready by 2032

Yasar_TR · May 14, 2025

BalkanTurk90 said:
there are russian or chinise engines avalible until ours is ready by 2032

There is a sword that US is waving above our heads called CAATSA.
This is essentially to stop other countries buying from Russia, Iran and North Korea.
These 3 countries are the basis of CAATSA. China is not among them.
Weirdly CAATSA is applied to countries that US can get its teeth in to. India apparently is exempt from it.

Any engine purchases from Russia can trigger further escalation of CAATSA. Sanctions against Türkiye.
The Klimov RD33KM with FADEC and 7% more thrust than standard one is actually a good option for Hurjet. But it is Russian.

Chinese don’t really have a 20000lbf class engine apart from WS13 which was supposed to replace Klimov RD93 on the JF17. But PAK still prefers the Russian engine.
WS19 is more powerful at 26000lbf thrust albeit with the same footprint as the WS13. It is meant for JF31 stealth plane.
In general Chinese engines have a life cycle of around quarter of the US counterparts.

Eastern engines should be our last choice of call. It would mean big changes in our overall foreign policy. Now that we are in the good books of new German government, we should seriously consider the purchase of EJ200 for Hurjet.

2032 timeline for indigenous engines is not written in stone. History of our serial production of most military equipment could mean, this time line may stretch quite a few years. So we need to be prepared.

Strong AI · May 14, 2025

Under the coordination of Airbus, we signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Spanish companies for our Supersonic Jet Training Aircraft HÜRJET.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1922629188147655012

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