TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

Yasar_TR said:

Thermobaric weapons are nothing like a Nuclear weapon. Even the smallest fission based nuclear weapon in the arsenal of nuclear powers have got an explosive power of 1 kilo ton or more when used as a tactical weapon. That is the power of 1 thousand tons of TNT being exploded.
Current thermonuclear bombs are as small as a 1 Megatons - that is 1 million tons of TNT strength- up to 50 megatons.

Never mind the immediate and secondary fallout of radioactive destruction they impart.

Our Gazap, is a 1 ton bomb. TNT equivalency of a thermobaric bomb is between 1.1 to 1.9 times the weight of the bomb. So a 1 ton MK84 carries 429 kg of explosives. So it has a TNT explosive strength of roughly just under 1 ton.

I am afraid I have to agree with @Sanchez

Germans should first complain about Americans, Russians and Chinese plus UK armed forces that have US manufactured versions, who are known to have openly used these weapons.
There is absolutely no legislation or international agreement that bans the use of these weapons.

Click to expand...

You're misunderstanding my logic.
It's about the strategic escalation ladder.
The explosive power of a single bomb is secondary.

Besides, where is it written that we can't use 4-5 of these bombs at a distance of 400 meters in a bombing zone? -> Explosion overlap!
The upward scaling is there, and so are the platforms.
With 4-5 bombs on the city center of a medium-sized city, you can destroy at least 3-5 kilometers.
The physical effect on the population is enormous.

Yasar_TR said:

Germans should first complain about Americans, Russians and Chinese plus UK armed forces that have US manufactured versions, who are known to have openly used these weapons.
There is absolutely no legislation or international agreement that bans the use of these weapons.

Click to expand...

That’s why I get mad at this comment actually. That’s why I call it arbitrary for there’s No international law limiting the size, usage and restricting development of thermo baric bombs. It’s a zealot effort to limit and oust Turkish military masked behind phony “mass destruction” weapon allegations.
And when it comes to mass destruction of lives and property, we all are already witnessing the current German standpoint against such acts tbh.
But that’s the subject of another thread, of course.

Ya'll care to much what some irrelevant grek says, even if he's relevant. Fuck'em, Türkiye must produce weapons like there is no tomorrow, always aiming for bigger and more destructive weapons. Rest is noice...

IC3M@N FX said:

These weapons represent the highest conventional level.

Click to expand...

Hardly, we have ballistic missiles that carry at least 2 times the TNT value in service today. We plan to introduce ones that carry 5 times that. Gazap is the largest and most destructive conventional bomb we can use from our puny F-16s, that's it. A thermobaric bomb is not a strategic threat to anyone, comparing it to a "non nuclear deterrent" is just nonsense. If you were talking about ballistic missiles, sure you could have a point. Koreans delivered their IRBM sized short range bunker buster Hyunmoo-5 ballistic missiles last year which reportedly carry an 8 ton warhead; that's 16 times the TNT value. That could be considered a strategic asset against North Koreans by some margin. But a 2000lb sized thermobaric bomb is not that at all. TOS-1 is not a strategic threat to anyone; an RPG with a thermobaric warhead is only a threat to a cave.

Zafer said:

You should consider German reaction to Gazap before nonsensing.

Click to expand...

Am I not patriotic enough for you today?

Person in question is a Greek shill and a paid actor who adds nothing of value to discussion. We of course have our own controls on where we export our stuff, while it is true that we make really bad decisions from time to time on what we export to whom, remember Cirits used by UAE in Libya? We are not exporting weapons like this to anyone but closest of our allies, probably only Pakistan and Saudi if they want them.

What an SWP "expert" says on a news article about IDEF have no relevancy, we went over all this already 10 years ago; they hold no water over us. And what they think doesn't matter, they are already giving us what we want and they still need us to play nice.

Turkish pundits raising hell over a 1 ton thermobaric bomb saying "it's the end of the world, we have done the impossible, all will tremble in fear" and Greek shills in Germany saying "Turks are doing scary stuff, we need to rein over them" feed off each other. They are not enemies, they are partners in crime. They are both liars who have no idea what they are talking about.

Angry Turk !!! said:

Türkiye must produce weapons like there is no tomorrow, always aiming for bigger and more destructive weapons.

Click to expand...

We already do, to mainly sell for export. Turkey literally fuels the munition delivery schedules to Ukraine. While our own army still bleeds for modern weapons. Anyone reading the recent weekly MSB reports?

Zafer said:

Multiple Gazaps can be used to carpet bomb a target for bigger and selective effect. Gazap is a stop gap solution before we make nukes.

Click to expand...

Gazap is not that big like media tell , in reality is just thermobaric mk84 bomb , its blast effect is almost same as other bombs with same weight , İts little weaker to Russian 1500kg one But the real Bomb that is far ahead of others its HAYALET (NEB 2) which go throw 7 meter c50 concrete and 2mm steel while others countries with same size can go just 2 meter same as Turkiye older NEB 1 . İ dont know how Turkiye reach that nivel of tech but is amazing and i hope no other country can copy our tech for at least 10 years .
We need bigger thermobaric like Gazap but 10 ton which we can drop for now with transport A400 and c130/160 ones that can vaporise everyhing 1km radius like small tactical nuke bomb

Zafer said:

You should consider German reaction to Gazap before nonsensing.

Click to expand...

One suspicious 'german ' reporter with dubious agenda,doesnt represent whole germany.

Sanchez said:

A thermobaric bomb is not a strategic threat to anyone,

Click to expand...

Are you kidding? They have a total destruction zone of 3,14 km². Which is enormous. Less than 20 Bombs could destroy whole Tel Aviv City.

BalkanTurk90 said:

Gazap is not that big like media tell , in reality is just thermobaric mk84 bomb , its blast effect is almost same as other bombs with same weight , İts little weaker to Russian 1500kg one But the real Bomb that is far ahead of others its HAYALET (NEB 2) which go throw 7 meter c50 concrete and 2mm steel while others countries with same size can go just 2 meter same as Turkiye older NEB 1 . İ dont know how Turkiye reach that nivel of tech but is amazing and i hope no other country can copy our tech for at least 10 years .
We need bigger thermobaric like Gazap but 10 ton which we can drop for now with transport A400 and c130/160 ones that can vaporise everyhing 1km radius like small tactical nuke bomb

Click to expand...

It depends on the mission. You can’t say „this bomb is better”, because of deeper impact (HAYALET). Maybe GAZAP has more “power” on surface. As someone told, you can increase the explosive.
About 10t GAZAP, it’s better to have a better carrier system than A400M. Maybe a stealth bomber?

Huelague said:

Are you kidding? They have a total destruction zone of 3,14 km². Which is enormous. Less than 20 Bombs could destroy whole Tel Aviv City.

Click to expand...

That looks like Pi π to me, my calculations show 1.26 km² which is still big enough for a 2000 lb drop.

The level of destruction difference between a 10kg HE round and 10kg of thermobaric explosives is approximately double the radius of the HE round. If HE round destroys everything within 5 m radius (~75m2), a 10kg thermobaric bomb will destroy everything within 10m radius (314m2)

A 500kg explosive content thermobaric bomb, particularly like the Mk84 series, has an outer blast radius of 25 meters and a shockwave radius of 35 meters. Its destructive radius due to flying debris and shrapnel, may reach 100m. Gazap however is designed to have 3 times more shrapnel that disperse to an effective range of 160m. (Debris and particles may reach 1km. But kill zone is 160m.) Somehow this bomb has less of a heat and vacuum effect. But more dispersal range of particles and shrapnel. (Pls read below news piece as taken from the mouth of the designer)

A small brief case size 1KTon nuclear device or a tactical nuclear bomb will obliterate everything within 300m radius, and kill everyone immediately.

Within 500m radius the death rate will be above 50%. Nuclear radioactive fallout out will effect an area of more than 2km radius.

You can’t even compare the level of devastation a nuclear bomb will have, with any conventional bombs.

Themobaric bomb is not a strategic threat. But it is a game changer advantage for the country that has it.

Ripley said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1955523021978112383

“German Defense Expert Jens Bastian
On the Thermobaric Bomb

NATO should use its power. It should force Turkey to comply with certain conditions. For example, how such a weapon of mass destruction was developed, where it was exported, and where it cannot be used.”

Totally arbitrary, purely political, phony classification, utter BS.
Another attempt to restrict Turkish military operational capabilities. When you can’t embargo them any more, tag phony mass destruction label on their own domestic systems and apply pressure thru lobby efforts as much as you can.

Note to mod team:
the bomb is neither smart nor a missile but this would be the best thread I thought.

Click to expand...

The Germans, as always, acted as Israel's spokesperson. We understand their concerns. When they go to war with Türkiye, the Turkish missiles will not resemble the empty rockets Iran fired at Israel.

MK84 lethal fragmentation radius is given as 400 ft in Wikipedia. If you consider GAZAP being 3 times as powerful which can be taken as 3 times the area, doing the math you get 216 meter radius and this is 432 meter lethal diameter and equaling an area of 383 x 383 meters considering a square. Some different calculations seem to stem from the fact that news outlets give numbers without giving the right units, feet units get accounted as meter units.

Akıncı can carry 2 IHA-300's

Radko said:

Akıncı can carry 2 IHA-300's

Click to expand...

Source?

Radko said:

Akıncı can carry 2 IHA-300's

Click to expand...

How?

Zafer said:

MK84 lethal fragmentation radius is given as 400 ft in Wikipedia. If you consider GAZAP being 3 times as powerful which can be taken as 3 times the area, doing the math you get 216 meter radius and this is 432 meter lethal diameter and equaling an area of 383 x 383 meters considering a square. Some different calculations seem to stem from the fact that news outlets give numbers without giving the right units, feet units get accounted as meter units.

Click to expand...

Wrong!
Nilüfer Kuzulu clearly says 3 times more fragments per square metre than a mk series bomb. Not 3 times more range.
It's lethality possibility has been increased 3 times.
It also says that in live test the fragmentation was spread as far as 160 metres.

One thing that it as been overlooked is the fact that this bomb's fragmentation spread is not random. It is very precise to cause maximum damage. It can be exploded directionally to open a corridor.

Going back to MK84;
Yes. Forget Wiki, but US sources give 400ft for fragment lethality radius. But the supposedly the US supplied 2000lb bombs Israel was using in Gaza had a lethal effect radius of nearly 360 metres.

Radko said:

Akıncı can carry 2 IHA-300's

Click to expand...

As it is, it quite literally cannot.

Yasar_TR said:

Wrong!
Nilüfer Kuzulu clearly says 3 times more fragments per square metre than a mk series bomb. Not 3 times more range.
It's lethality possibility has been increased 3 times.
It also says that in live test the fragmentation was spread as far as 160 metres.

One thing that it as been overlooked is the fact that this bomb's fragmentation spread is not random. It is very precise to cause maximum damage. It can be exploded directionally to open a corridor.

Going back to MK84;
Yes. Forget Wiki, but US sources give 400ft for fragment lethality radius. But the supposedly the US supplied 2000lb bombs Israel was using in Gaza had a lethal effect radius of nearly 360 metres.

Press Release: New study shows Israel air-dropped 2000lb bombs within lethal and damage ranges of hospitals in Gaza – FXB Center

fxb.harvard.edu

Click to expand...

On media there was a 400 meter radius reporting for MK84 but after seeing 400 feet on Wikipedia I though it was an error of units. But turns out that 400 meters is already realistic. While 360 meter is already observed in the field 160 meter for GAZAP is a downgrade which is noting to brag about, reporting must be faulty. Truth is still not found.

guess it is not a very healty obsession, ideally we are not gonna use Gazap in open areas or for destroying a city block, its most effective use is in enclosed spaces..... tunnels, field fortifications, bunkers, foxhole systems .... dont think a city block will ever be a primary target

Zafer said:

That looks like Pi to me, my calculations show 1.26 k m² which is still big enough for a 2000 lb drop.

Click to expand...

A = π • r²
r = 1 km² (radius of destruction, as estimated)
π ~3,142
A = 3,142 • 1 (km²)
A = 3,142 km² (destruction zone)
Still.