TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Yasar_TR · Thursday at 6:53 AM

Samba said:
I know we all eagerly wait for TF-10000 to be ready for KızılElma. I wonder how much of a performance boost it will bring after AI-322F? Is it mosly anticipated for unreliablilty of Ukranian supply or for the use of a domestic engine?

As per @Pokemonte13 has pointed out, when fully mature, the TF10000 should give 10% or maximum 15% more thrust than the Ukranian engine (going by the performance of TEI on TS1400). The TF10000 has slightly bigger diameter than AI322F. (65cm vs 62.4cm) . It is only logical to expect a higher level of thrust from it.
Using single crystal turbine blades and more advanced parts and technology in it’s design, should result in a much more reliable engine than an old Soviet engine.

But most importantly, TF10000 is being designed to be used in a stealthy aircraft. Hence all parts including fan blades and compressor blades and airflow management should be designed to give minimum reflection of radar signals.

So both, TF6000 and TF10000 engines should outperform the corresponding Ukranian engines both in thrust and definitely in stealth.

Afif · Thursday at 9:45 AM

Quasar said:
I dont think he is specifically/necessarily talking about data link only since he uses a general term '' communication jamming''

I mean, there isn't much general about it.

Communication between 5th gen platforms and its autonomous loyal wingman will occur through directional data links. Just like between two other manned 5th gen platforms.

I think this should be taken into consideration when wondering about the operational effectiveness of loyal wingman concept in electromagnetically contested environment.

Quasar · Thursday at 12:18 PM

Quasar said:
Moreover, if we want to focus on low observability further our data link should evolve accordingly as well i.e as a part of low observablty concept we may need to use low probability of intercept (LPI) datalinks eventually.

Afif said:
I mean, there isn't much general about it.

Communication between 5th gen platforms and its autonomous loyal wingman will occur through directional data links. Just like between two other manned 5th gen platforms.

I think this should be taken into consideration when wondering about the operational effectiveness of loyal wingman concept in electromagnetically contested environment.

You are definitely right about directional data links!!! thanks guess this is an interesting subject which ı was looking for an opportunity to discuss which is also relevent to operational effectiveness of loyal wingman as you stated ... for instance F-35s can send information to F-22s directly via Link 16 which is omnidirectional and in a far more widely adopted waveform and not very LPI/LPD ( low probability of intercept/low probability of detection) in nature... not good enough ... if you are concerning with remaining as stealthy as possible.

it was long time ago I may need to be updated but F-35 was using Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL) and F 22 was using Intra-Flight Data Link (IFDL) and both were highly directional broadcasting concepts which are known as Millimeter Wave Systems... and extremely difficult to jam. İn the long run defenitly something we should work on.

message-editor%2F1619795549072-ifdl-madl.jpg

Furter, F 22 and F 35 were using an U 2 as a gateway to share target tracks... since they have different systems

hugh · Thursday at 12:52 PM

Quasar said:
it was long time ago I may need to be updated but F-35 was using Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL) and F 22 was using Intra-Flight Data Link (IFDL) and both were highly directional broadcasting concepts which are known as Millimeter Wave Systems... and extremely difficult to jam. İn the long run defenitly something we should work on.

we already have Ku-band terminals for stealth communication. ASELSAN has displayed them in this year's defence fair

Huelague · Saturday at 5:44 PM

Is TIUS ANKA-4 ?

Zafer · Saturday at 7:41 PM

Huelague said:
Is TIUS ANKA-4 ?

That would be TİSU, Türk Insansız Savaş Uçağı

zio · Saturday at 8:55 PM

hugh said:
we already have Ku-band terminals for stealth communication. ASELSAN has displayed them in this year's defence fair

View attachment 78587

View attachment 78589

What is data rate of it?.Aselsan T-link is 1 MB/sec,that is very slow if you compare to F-35 which has more than 200 MB per second.I think link 16 has lower than 1MB/sec.

Pilatino · Sunday at 4:41 AM

zio said:
What is data rate of it?.Aselsan T-link is 1 MB/sec,that is very slow if you compare to F-35 which has more than 200 MB per second.I think link 16 has lower than 1MB/sec.

You’re comparing apples and oranges.

Link-16, Link-22 and T-Link aren’t meant to push huge data rates.
They exist to pass small but critical stuff like tracks, IDs, shoot cues) reliably and under jamming, not to stream raw sensor data.

The “200+ MB/s F-35” number is internal sensor processing inside the jet, not what it broadcasts. Most of that data never leaves the aircraft anyway.

Here:

- Link-16 (0.015 MB/s): The post–Cold War NATO standard. Slow on paper, solid where it matters.
- Link-22 (0.05 MB/s): Basically a Link-16 upgrade, tuned for naval use and longer ranges.
- T-Link (1 MB/s): A modern national link, more flexible and higher-capacity by design. ASELSAN <3

TheInsider · Sunday at 5:04 AM

Aselsan has an 80 MB/s link to send sensor data. For example, FLIR footage.

Its name is Trustlink.

TRUSTLINK 10/PP, 10 NET - ASELSAN

www.aselsan.com

Aselsan also develops an exclusive data link for KAAN.

Quasar · Sunday at 5:55 AM

Fundemental point is if we want to focus on low observability for KIZILELMA, ANKA 3 and KAAN , (low probability of intercept/low probability of detection) directional data links i.e Millimeter Wave Systems is not an alternative to other data links but a necessity for data link communications between low observable aircrafts and in this regard ASELSAN ICNAIR is not any less important than MURAD 100 or TOYGUN and it demonstrates our dedication to low observablty

boredaf · 2025-12-15T04:21:58-0600

Nutuk said:
When looked at the developments of Kizilelma, ANKA-3 and ANKA-4 in development I just hope that we did not waste $10bln for nothing.

I can't get used to the idea of EF2000, like an allergic reaction

There is no Anka-4 except for perhaps on a computer somewhere, Anka-3 is not a fighter and covers a completely different set of missions. KE even at its best would only be able to carry a fraction of EF's payload and wouldn't be able to be the work horse our air force needs.

Yeah, yours is like an allergic reaction. Illogical.

Khagan1923 · 2025-12-15T04:55:55-0600

Nutuk said:
When looked at the developments of Kizilelma, ANKA-3 and ANKA-4 in development I just hope that we did not waste $10bln for nothing.

I can't get used to the idea of EF2000, like an allergic reaction

ANKA-4 is nothing more than an render on the work computer of a TAI engineer. Anka-3 and Kizilelma will be limited in their capabilities until they are fitted with better engines (TF6000 and TF10000) and those engines still need a couple years until they enter serial production.

F-16 Özgür II first deliveries were supposed to be made this month and radio silence on that front.

If securing your skies and bolstering your Air Force is a "waste" than that is one I will gladly agree with.

We currently and for the near future have nothing that comes close to the package that EF + Meteor gives us.

Turkic · 2025-12-15T05:58:08-0600

Let's not forget the only thing we know about Anka-4 is its name. That "design" is not a conceptual design by TAI. It's an art belonging to someone else. I will even doubt if the project is canceled or not unless @TheInsider abi says it is not.

Turkic said:
Here is the original of the photo:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/n0xzRK

Third picture from the bottom.

Nutuk · 2025-12-15T06:38:37-0600

True, a couple of years ago we also did not know about ANKA-3 and they suddenly showed a flying model.

If former CEO of TAI talked about ANKA-4 development, retired generals talk about ANKA-4 development I am inclined to believe that development is ongoing.

There is now info dripping in that the delivery of EF2000 (new ones) is 2030. Makes my allergy spike!

boredaf · 2025-12-15T08:37:14-0600

Nutuk said:
If former CEO of TAI talked about ANKA-4 development, retired generals talk about ANKA-4 development I am inclined to believe that development is ongoing.

Temel Kotil also said they were going to deliver T-929 to the army this year. New ceo said they were going to deliver 10 Hürkuş to air force this year. Not only they are salesmen talking about their products but also defence industry is highly politicised in our country and used as a propaganda machine.

What they are doing is no different than what other arms of propaganda machines do, tell a lie then publish a retraction; a retraction will never, ever be seen by the same number of people who have seen your lie, so, you're in the clear.

TheInsider · 2025-12-15T18:06:27-0600

As far as I know, the real Anka-4 is on the back burner. There is a bigger supersonic version of Anka-3 on the pipeline, but not on the short term.

Iskander · 2025-12-15T21:54:13-0600

TheInsider said:
As far as I know, the real Anka-4 is on the back burner. There is a bigger supersonic version of Anka-3 on the pipeline, but not on the short term.

Such?

The Anka-3 is a great aircraft.
But I think one day you'll have to build an Anka with larger parameters. I'm not talking about the 100-ton Spirit, but something bigger than the Anka-3. There is an empty niche there.

https://tr.topwar.ru/275143-konkurent-b-21-za-zvanie-luchshego-bombardirovschika-novyj-kitajskij-samolet-h-20.html

boredaf · 2025-12-15T23:10:50-0600

Iskander said:
Such?

View attachment 78623

The Anka-3 is a great aircraft.
But I think one day you'll have to build an Anka with larger parameters. I'm not talking about the 100-ton Spirit, but something bigger than the Anka-3. There is an empty niche there.

https://tr.topwar.ru/275143-konkurent-b-21-za-zvanie-luchshego-bombardirovschika-novyj-kitajskij-samolet-h-20.html

Chinese just flew their flying wing drone that is bigger than Anka-3.

Afif · 2025-12-15T23:56:00-0600

boredaf said:
Chinese just flew their flying wing drone that is bigger than Anka-3.

To be accurate, it's been flying since 2013. Recent footage released of production variant is a commemoration of its commissioning with PLAAF unit.

Something like that from TAI would require a bigger engine. Like F110. Other than the engine issue, there is no reason why Tusas couldn't get it done.

boredaf · 2025-12-16T01:08:40-0600

Afif said:
Something like that from TAI would require a bigger engine. Like F110. Other than the engine issue, there is no reason why Tusas couldn't get it done.

I agree, I just mentioned the Chinese drone as an example. We really need to start developing our drones/ships/planes/whatever around engines, rather than the other way around.

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