TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

When will they finally present the next prototype? It can't be rocket science.
Almost a year has passed now; they need to get a move on.
We need 50-60x Ugraded F-16 Özgur II, 24x Eurofighter and 10x TAI KAAN & Kizilelma + Anka 3 Aircraft (Total 30) by 2029/30 to send a signal to the outside world (Greece/Israel und Russia).

Lightning fast delivery of J35E to Pakistan, within months !? I have a map to update.

IC3M@N FX said:

When will they finally present the next prototype? It can't be rocket science.
Almost a year has passed now; they need to get a move on.
We need 50-60x Ugraded F-16 Özgur II, 24x Eurofighter and 10x TAI KAAN & Kizilelma + Anka 3 Aircraft (Total 30) by 2029/30 to send a signal to the outside world (Greece/Israel und Russia).

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This should be at a minimum, and I'd like to challenge the number 50-60 F16 ÖZGÜR II. If our MURAD radar and other electronics, sensors etc. have reached a certain maturity such that we can begin integrating them serially to our F16s, what is preventing us to integrate them to 200 F16s? Is it a cost issue? Once you have designed and tested the radar, producing it should not cost much in terms of material. I assume 80% of the cost is R&D? If we promise ASELSAN we will be buying hundreds of them for F16, Kizilelma, ANKA and later also for KAAN of course, can we not get a good price, at least initially till KAAN production begins? If it is rather a production issue, why can we not use more materials, build a larger production facility, employ and train more people in the next years to increase production capacity? do we always need to think serially and react to needs instead of planning and arranging this things in advance? Finally, is it because we need to have permissions from L&M for different versions of F16? There is a lot of speculative info here.

TO SUM UP: If we have currently 230 F16s and we have the technology to upgrade them to ÖZGÜR II, we need to upgrade ALL (even if their remaining life is 10 years) ASAP. Anything else is not responsible behavior.

The first flight of the P1 prototype is scheduled for April, but we haven't seen any information, statements, or indications from TUSAŞ regarding KAAN recently. I hope there won't be any problems or delays.

Spitfire9 said:

In July the GCAP partner governments agreed to try to make a contract with Edgewing by the end of 2025. There has been no announcement of this. Could be the partners cannot reach agreement and never will. Could be the partners cannot reach agreement yet. Could be the partner countries are in agreement but have yet to finalise a contract with Edgewing.

PS This is the KAAN thread so, no offence intended, I won't discuss GCAP more here except where it relates to KAAN.

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The 5th gen version of Korean KAI KF-21 Boramae will far successful than Japan-UK one and become the a KAAN competitor

B_A said:

The 5th gen version of Korean KAI KF-21 Boramae will far successful than Japan-UK one and become the a KAAN competitor

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Different aircraft. GCAP is a 6G project. It is expected to be a large fighter with extremely long range. It will be much more expensive than KF-21. Yes, I expect KF-21 to sell in much larger numbers than GCAP.

Spitfire9 said:

Different aircraft. GCAP is a 6G project. It is expected to be a large fighter with extremely long range. It will be much more expensive than KF-21. Yes, I expect KF-21 to sell in much larger numbers than GCAP.

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I knew they were different aircraft.

I meant that I didnt think GCAP would be a success.

You can see how many plans the Japanese promoted without many success since 2010s,like
Mitsubishi X-2 Shinshin or IHI Corporation XF9,First launch a massive publicity campaign for super weapon or super engine, then remain silent.

Unlike the Japanese, the Koreans quietly carried out their work, achieving victory after victory with the K2, K9, and KF21, much like Samsung and LG defeated Sony and Panasonic.
I don't know why the Japanese have become like this; now they're boasting about beating TSMC in the chip industry with 1/100 of the money.

B_A said:

I knew they were different aircraft.

I meant that I didnt think GCAP would be success.

You can see how many plans the Japanese promoted without many success since 2010s,like
Mitsubishi X-2 Shinshin or IHI Corporation XF9,First launch a massive publicity campaign for super weapon or super engine, then remain silent.

Unlike the Japanese, the Koreans quietly carried out their work, achieving victory after victory with the K2, K9, and KF21, much like Samsung and LG defeated Sony and Panasonic.
I don't know why the Japanese have become like this; now they're boasting about beating TSMC in the chip industry with 1/100 of the money.

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From what I have recently read, GIGO (3 government GCAP organisation) is in advanced negotiations with Edgewing (3 country GCAP development and production company) to finalise a development contract. I assume a development contract will be announced this year. I am not sure how many the partner countries will take in total but I expect the number to be 350-400 with fewer ordered initially. Possible future customers: Saudi Arabia, UAE, Australia, Canada plus Germany if FCAS fails to launch, India if AMCA never gets going. Would you see total sales of 500+ GCAP over the next few decades as success?

I think that KAAN and KF-21 will sell widely when they can be offered with non-US engines.

Spitfire9 said:

From what I have recently read, GIGO (3 government GCAP organisation) is in advanced negotiations with Edgewing (3 country GCAP development and production company) to finalise a development contract. I assume a development contract will be announced this year. I am not sure how many the partner countries will take in total but I expect the number to be 350-400 with fewer ordered initially. Possible future customers: Saudi Arabia, UAE, Australia, Canada plus Germany if FCAS fails to launch, India if AMCA never gets going. Would you see total sales of 500+ GCAP over the next few decades as success?

I think that KAAN and KF-21 will sell widely when they can be offered with non-US engines.

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I hope they would succeed (I have a very deep relationship with Japan and UK), and i see even 200-300 GCAP over the next few decades as a great success.

But the problem isnt the market. But it is the fact that Japan and Europe have performed poorly in many defense projects in recent years. Mitsubishi Space Jet and C2/P1, technical problems have been constantly arising.

If they successfully develop GCAP, the market is not a problem. Only Japan, UK and Italy will require no less than 400-500 units. (at least 300-400 for Japanese airforce alone)

Yasar_TR said:

Bro, that is on paper and in advertising propaganda information.
1. If it takes off vertically, its operational range is shortened so much that the whole process becomes almost futile. Increased mechanical complexity, reduced internal payload/fuel capacity, less range/endurance and higher fuel consumption during vertical manoeuvres, making it heavier and less capable in weight-limited scenarios.
It already has a disadvantage as it has to carry excess fuel to allow it to land vertically on carriers. To add another disadvantage is not very clever.

2. Operating from non-conformal positions (out in the wilderness or ”dispersed” as you say) will mean a lot of support equipment will have to be present in take off and landing sites. This causes logistical nightmares.
Your airforce land crews will have to be trained accordingly.
To a small and spread apart individual or a few units, you will have to provide the same number of equipment and ground crew that you would for a squadron or two in base.

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Jack of all trades, Master of none.