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After we sell it to Qatar/UAE it is their system and their decision what to do with it.
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TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions
- Thread starter Blackeyes90
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In a radio show were they were discussing geopolitical stuff a few years ago they said how unlike us Greeks who give everything to the USA and the West and don't take anything back in return, how Turkey is with Russia then with USA and the West, then with Russia again then with the USA and the West again and what will you, Russia, offer us to be on your side? And what will you, USA and the West, offer to us to be on your side?
They said Turkey gains things playing between the two, the East and the West, but at one point the time will come to chose, East or West? The geopolitical analyst said Turkey will chose the West and when they do Turks should know that the Russian bear bites and it will be a nasty bite for Turkey.
If you say look at Ukraine and the difficulty the Russians face there. They were saying yesterday on the radio if Putin wants he can pick up the phone, give an order and finish Ukraine yesterday. They claimed with all Russia's casualties there is a reason they don't put all their strength there. Now, if something happens in the straights and Russia puts all its strength against Turkey? And I don't believe it will be Turkey against just Russia, or against just Greece, or against just Israel. Until know with all the strength of the Turkish army and your military industry you fought and won rebels and in countries already devastated and destroyed by civil wars. The Turkish army choses where to fight. On 1922 and 1974 when the Greek army fought seriously you won nothing. The Greek politicians messed things. That from Manzikert until 1974 and Imia 1996. If you check what really happened every time a Turkish army wone(?) a Greek army. Wone(?) because each single time we lost from Turks the politicians interfered and messed things and it is the bad habbit we Greeks have since Ancient Greece and... the Greek army won the Greek army and not the Turkish army which takes the glory and talks big.
If they give the F-35s do you thing they will give them to you to use them against Greece and Israel? If they help you to reinforce your army they want you to use it against Russia. There are people here in Greece who claim USA didn't sell us the F-35s to use against Turkey, but against Russia. They claim if there was a war between Greece and Turkey we shouldn't be surprised if we couldn't even turn them on.
They said Turkey gains things playing between the two, the East and the West, but at one point the time will come to chose, East or West? The geopolitical analyst said Turkey will chose the West and when they do Turks should know that the Russian bear bites and it will be a nasty bite for Turkey.
If you say look at Ukraine and the difficulty the Russians face there. They were saying yesterday on the radio if Putin wants he can pick up the phone, give an order and finish Ukraine yesterday. They claimed with all Russia's casualties there is a reason they don't put all their strength there. Now, if something happens in the straights and Russia puts all its strength against Turkey? And I don't believe it will be Turkey against just Russia, or against just Greece, or against just Israel. Until know with all the strength of the Turkish army and your military industry you fought and won rebels and in countries already devastated and destroyed by civil wars. The Turkish army choses where to fight. On 1922 and 1974 when the Greek army fought seriously you won nothing. The Greek politicians messed things. That from Manzikert until 1974 and Imia 1996. If you check what really happened every time a Turkish army wone(?) a Greek army. Wone(?) because each single time we lost from Turks the politicians interfered and messed things and it is the bad habbit we Greeks have since Ancient Greece and... the Greek army won the Greek army and not the Turkish army which takes the glory and talks big.
If they give the F-35s do you thing they will give them to you to use them against Greece and Israel? If they help you to reinforce your army they want you to use it against Russia. There are people here in Greece who claim USA didn't sell us the F-35s to use against Turkey, but against Russia. They claim if there was a war between Greece and Turkey we shouldn't be surprised if we couldn't even turn them on.
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Üstad, if a transfer to the United Arab Emirates or Qatar occurs, how will the offsetting work? Will Turkiye receive military systems in exchange for the S-400 system, will another debt issue arise, or will these countries commit to funding certain projects or companies in Türkiye?
T
You need to relax man,nobody wants a war with Greece.
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They will probably pay us some money, less than what we paid to Russians and that is it. We will be at a net loss.
myNameJeff-17
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The opinion of Greek so called geopolitical analysts isn't worth the paper it is written on.
Cozy up to Russia and Germany will make sure you Greeks bring your own medication to hospital visits for the next 30 years, considering the money they're pouring into the military and Ukraine
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The transfer of second-hand military systems would never be equal to the initial acquisition costs. That's acceptable. But, for example, if this deal were with Qatar; it could be offset against the 'bare aircraft' price that Türkiye has to pay for 24 EFTs, or perhaps we could even acquire ownership of 4 C-17s on top of that, hehe. Anyway, if barter possibilities aren't on the table, let's hope this transfer happens as soon as possible.
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"Turkiye did not pay $2.5 billion for the S-400s. The project included the firm purchase of one system and an option for a second system that was never purchased. We only purchased the first system. An estimated payment of between $1.25 and $1.5 billion was made."
Holikarbon
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Greece is not a problem for us to deal with.
"Imagine buying something for 4.5 billion (Steel Dome (Çelik Kubbe)) and never using it. Also Imagine the amount of opportunities we lost because of it."
The best approach is to put logic aside and keep going like this. (!)
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We are on the verge of a leap forward in both combat aviation and anti-access, area denial capabilities. While building this infrastructure, we have sometimes taken blows and sometimes dealt blows in a vast area stretching from Libya to the Caucasus, from the Black Sea to the Horn of Africa, but we have somehow concretely and permanently expanded our military sphere of influence. With its successes and failures, and with delays of three or eight years, if Turkiye can establish its military industry on the world stage and simultaneously achieve regional military and security dominance by the 2030s, it will be the new paradigm that is being discussed, not the costs and mistakes made.
IC3M@N FX
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The S-400 procurement was also a tool of a new, multi-vector foreign policy. Erdoğan wanted to demonstrate that Turkey was no longer merely following orders from the West, but was acting as an independent regional power. Furthermore, a strategic rapprochement with Moscow was absolutely essential to safeguard Turkey’s complex military operations in northern Syrian airspace (such as in Afrin or Idlib), which was effectively controlled by Russia.
In summary, from Ankara’s perspective, the purchase was not merely an arms deal, but a symbolic and practical breakthrough towards strategic autonomy – even if the price paid (exclusion from the F-35 programme and CAATSA sanctions) was massive, both in military-technical and economic terms.
At that time, Turkey was not yet independent or stable enough to effectively withstand subtle foreign policy pressure from the West; the reorientation of Turkish policy towards multiple axes – the economy, trade and defence independence – was still fragile. Time was needed, along with military safeguards or deterrents – in other words, the S-400s were purchased following the attempted coup as a means of political leverage; the message was: ‘We can buy even more from Russia and China; we have options – do not force us to have to use them.’
Whether one likes Erdogan or not – had he been overthrown during the coup, however, I can assure you with all my heart that all defence projects would have been put on hold; the country would have run up debts with the IMF once again and would have had to settle once more for the role of an obedient vassal, content with the scraps left on the table. Political, economic and military independence does not come for free – the more one pursues it, the stronger the external resistance becomes, seeking to dissuade one from doing so.
The S-400 has served its purpose, at least in the sense that it has allowed time to consolidate the transformation into a network power spanning East and West, and South and North. Turkey is too important to ignore, too significant to overlook, and too headstrong to be brought into the fold. The country exerts a unique pull that compels others in its vicinity to negotiate with it on equal terms, whether they like it or not.
In summary, from Ankara’s perspective, the purchase was not merely an arms deal, but a symbolic and practical breakthrough towards strategic autonomy – even if the price paid (exclusion from the F-35 programme and CAATSA sanctions) was massive, both in military-technical and economic terms.
At that time, Turkey was not yet independent or stable enough to effectively withstand subtle foreign policy pressure from the West; the reorientation of Turkish policy towards multiple axes – the economy, trade and defence independence – was still fragile. Time was needed, along with military safeguards or deterrents – in other words, the S-400s were purchased following the attempted coup as a means of political leverage; the message was: ‘We can buy even more from Russia and China; we have options – do not force us to have to use them.’
Whether one likes Erdogan or not – had he been overthrown during the coup, however, I can assure you with all my heart that all defence projects would have been put on hold; the country would have run up debts with the IMF once again and would have had to settle once more for the role of an obedient vassal, content with the scraps left on the table. Political, economic and military independence does not come for free – the more one pursues it, the stronger the external resistance becomes, seeking to dissuade one from doing so.
The S-400 has served its purpose, at least in the sense that it has allowed time to consolidate the transformation into a network power spanning East and West, and South and North. Turkey is too important to ignore, too significant to overlook, and too headstrong to be brought into the fold. The country exerts a unique pull that compels others in its vicinity to negotiate with it on equal terms, whether they like it or not.
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Nobody wants it but it is inevitable nonetheless
If Turkey wants to get back its blue homeland, a war is 100% inevitable with Greece since Greece reached a point in which they believe that everything in the MedEast Sea belongs to them. In other words, the Greeks need a good slap to wake up from their wet dream just like with Armenia
The only question is when, where, and how the war will be conducted and that will depend on how the Turkish govt and foreign actors controlling Greece play their cards
Pokemonte13
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Blue Homeland Doctrine is not only for expanding our water but also denying the expansion of others. If we can deny the greeks to expand their control over water they claim as theirs then i think it has done its purpose as a full fledged expansion would led to conflict with the US and EU and honestly that not worth it. So as long as nobody effectively controls it its a useful tool.
Khagan1923
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One of the more feverish Anti-Turkey Senators, Lindsey Graham, seems to have passed away yesterday.
I'm sure most members here know him well.
I'm sure flags in Israel and Greece will be lowered to half-flag with this news as they have lost their biggest pawn in the US Congress.
We will see if this will have any impact on the F-35-Turkey saga in the Senate.
boredaf
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Lindsey Graham was Trump's bitch, no matter what he said in the end he always did what Trump told him to do.
Turkic
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Passed away right after saying F-35's for Turkiye is possible. It's hard to not get suspicious. "Brief and sudden illness"
Khagan1923
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Yeah, still he was a bigger bitch for Israel. The second he would smell the chance to disobey Trump in regards to Turkey he would have done it.
This way most likely a interim will take his seat who will vote according to the Party line.
Can't also forget the influence he had inside the Party to stir up shit without him actively doing it.
We need to use the time until the Mid-Terms as Trump and Republicans will most likely lose the House and there is a chance they lose the Senate to push through as much as we can.
