TR Air Defence Programs

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,483
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,759
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
rumor is that for FACs there wil be point deffence and AESA?? is it related with Levent or a different solution? if true off course
Who says it is rumored? It is clear as water that TTFAB will be equipped with independent PDMS system. It has been issued on the RfI/RfP years ago. And not just because RAM was not able to be procured, Sapan PDMS project existed specially for TTFAB.
 

Khagan1923

Contributor
Messages
970
Reactions
14 4,147
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Who says it is rumored? It is clear as water that TTFAB will be equipped with independent PDMS system. It has been issued on the RfI/RfP years ago. And not just because RAM was not able to be procured, Sapan PDMS project existed specially for TTFAB.

This off-topic but is there a reason why we haven't heard or seen anything about TTFAB for a short while now?
 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
925
Reactions
13 1,519
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Who says it is rumored? It is clear as water that TTFAB will be equipped with independent PDMS system. It has been issued on the RfI/RfP years ago. And not just because RAM was not able to be procured, Sapan PDMS project existed specially for TTFAB.
It has been teased that there is another version of Göksur with a mystery launcher configuration for FAC, so that was Sapan?
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,483
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,759
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
It has been teased that there is another version of Göksur with a mystery launcher configuration for FAC, so that was Sapan?
Goksur if chosen will be used as is. The missile itself is Sapan.


ok lets try to rephrase the question in 2021 Roketsan offered Sungur D for Sapan (ASELSAN-TUBİTAK-ROKETSAN) is Sungr D replaced by Bozdoğan?

View attachment 59789
It was SAGE offering Bozdogan with an improved seeker and later passive RF in block II while Roketsan hopped in, by telling anyway they are developing Sungur ER (D for naval use) that can later evolve into block II. This systems will both have stand-alone variants like SeaRAM and dependent on ship's sensors variany similar to RAM with more missiles.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,483
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,759
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Goksur if chosen will be used as is. The missile itself is Sapan.

It was SAGE offering Bozdogan with an improved seeker and later passive RF in block II while Roketsan hopped in, by telling anyway they are developing Sungur ER (D for naval use) that can later evolve into block II. This systems will both have stand-alone variants like SeaRAM and dependent on ship's sensors variany similar to RAM with more missiles.
Lets note these launchers can also be used for other purposes, to launch Cirit, UMTAS GM, Kuzgun, Kuzgun-ER.
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,663
Reactions
54 4,748
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
If 15 Tuzla class YTKBs had 4 AESA Plates from BURÇ or GÜRZ , they would be real gap closer over shores against Cruise missiles and UAVs. For sure the TUZLA CLASS should also need LEVENT or SUNGURs.

1690715557175.png

AESA radars of BURÇ seem more compact, practical and cheaper than GÜRZ.
İ-Class frigate has huge, powerful rotating D-Band radar so Burç's compact AESA radar could enable to switch off CENK-D while securing point defense. I am opposite of rotating two MAR-Ds in I-Class

1690715990737.png


I would put AESA radars of GÜRZ onto Ada class since Corvettes have just PESA rotating radar.
 
Last edited:

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
3,902
Reactions
5 4,104
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
If 15 Tuzla class YTKBs had 4 AESA Plates from BURÇ or GÜRZ , they would be real gap closer over shores against Cruise missiles and UAVs. For sure the TUZLA CLASS should also need LEVENT or SUNGURs.

View attachment 59796
AESA radars of BURÇ seem more compact, practical and cheaper than GÜRZ.
İ-Class frigate has huge, powerful rotating D-Band radar so Burç's compact AESA radar could enable to switch off CENK-S while securing point defense. I am opposite of rotating two MAR-Ds in I-Class

View attachment 59797

I would put AESA radars of GÜRZ onto Ada class since Corvettes have PESA rotating radar.

Is the Gatling a good choice?
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,663
Reactions
54 4,748
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
On Burc System. It’s not our Army who developed this system. Don’t you think a single barrel canon would be better?
This triple barrel Gatling gun must be from ATAK helis. One cannon for multiple platforms however single barrel auto cannon would be more effective against cheap UAVs?
 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
925
Reactions
13 1,519
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
This triple barrel Gatling gun must be from ATAK helis. One cannon for multiple platforms however single barrel auto cannon would be more effective against cheap UAVs?
That 3 barrel gatling is 20mm, a single barrel 20mm would have very low firerate like 300-400 rpm. M197 is 750-1500 rpm. 6 barrel M61 is 6000 rpm.
 

Radonsider

Contributor
Messages
1,463
Reactions
14 2,790
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
@Anmdt I know that I've asked this billion times before but after all of this İDEF and information fuzz, can you re-enlighten us on the issue of MİDLAS and quadpacking, will we ever be able to see a long range (80+km) air defence missile quadpacked into the system?
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,315
Reactions
79 10,544
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
That 3 barrel gatling is 20mm, a single barrel 20mm would have very low firerate like 300-400 rpm. M197 is 750-1500 rpm. 6 barrel M61 is 6000 rpm.
M197 is certainly not rated for anti air role as it was devised. I'd like to see some actual fire tests with multiple high speed drones before I give my thoughts on it. We only saw one test, at night, firing at nothing.
 

Osman

Committed member
Messages
264
Reactions
6 507
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
It might be interesting to be able to launch cirit (or a new version like cirit er) too from burç launcher. With its gatling gun. A multi role concept
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,663
Reactions
54 4,748
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
It might be interesting to be able to launch cirit (or a new version like cirit er) too from burç launcher. With its gatling gun. A multi role concept


Cirit's? No CIWS is fine!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,061
Solutions
1
Reactions
34 14,465
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
If 15 Tuzla class YTKBs had 4 AESA Plates from BURÇ or GÜRZ , they would be real gap closer over shores against Cruise missiles and UAVs. For sure the TUZLA CLASS should also need LEVENT or SUNGURs.

View attachment 59796
AESA radars of BURÇ seem more compact, practical and cheaper than GÜRZ.
İ-Class frigate has huge, powerful rotating D-Band radar so Burç's compact AESA radar could enable to switch off CENK-D while securing point defense. I am opposite of rotating two MAR-Ds in I-Class

View attachment 59797

I would put AESA radars of GÜRZ onto Ada class since Corvettes have just PESA rotating radar.

İ-Class frigate has huge, powerful rotating D-Band radar so Burç's compact AESA radar could enable to switch off CENK-D while securing point defense. I am opposite of rotating two MAR-Ds in I-Class

S-Band, Cenk-S.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,483
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,759
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
@Anmdt I know that I've asked this billion times before but after all of this İDEF and information fuzz, can you re-enlighten us on the issue of MİDLAS and quadpacking, will we ever be able to see a long range (80+km) air defence missile quadpacked into the system?
Siper Block - 1 was expected. But first comer is Hisar - D and then quad-packed version.
 

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
3,902
Reactions
5 4,104
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
About the different air defense systems


At the 16th International Defense Industry Fair (IDEF 2023) in Istanbul, ASELSAN, a defense company affiliated with the Turkish Armed Forces Foundation (TSKGV), held a launch ceremony for four new air defense products. The ceremony was attended by Turkish Defense Industry President Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün, ASELSAN General Manager Ahmet Akyol, TÜBİTAK SAGE President Gürcan Okumuş, and ASELSAN board members.

The first of the products unveiled by the company was the GÜRZ Hybrid Air Defense System. The company’s first product was the GÜRZ Hybrid Air Defense System. GÜRZ, according to Aselsan, is an innovative air and missile defense system with multiple interceptors against very low and low altitude air threats. This new Air and Missile Defense System will protect both fixed facilities and in-transit convoys from threats such as UAVs, helicopters, and airborne munitions. Mounted on an 8×8 armored wheeled platform, GÜRZ consists of components such as a 35-millimeter air defense gun, 8 low altitude air defense missiles, 4 active electronically scanned array (AESA) search radars, a fire control radar, electro-optical sensors, and data link.

Another product unveiled for the first time was the air defense system GÖKSUR, produced for naval platforms. Developed as the equivalent of the US-made RIM-116 RAM System in Turkish Navy Ada class corvettes, GÖKSUR is a short-range, close-range air defense system. Three different configurations will be offered to adapt to changing threat conditions due to the modular design of this new system, which will be able to detect and neutralize various threats such as anti-ship missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, cruise missiles, aircraft, and helicopters. The system will employ 12 IIR guided BOZDOĞAN-DH missiles developed by the Defense Industry Research and Development Institute of the Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey (TÜBİTAK-SAGE) as interceptor missiles. The GÖKSUR Close Air Defense Missile System, according to the company, has a number of features, including 360-degree threat destruction capability, the ability to intercept multiple targets, standalone and/or platform integrated operation, intermediate guidance with data link, and high single launch interception possibility.

bd5601b5-100c-4e85-8e67-ca14f5e6348b.jpg


The GÖKSUR Close-Range Air Defense Missile System developed by Aselsan / From Aselsan
The GÖKBERK Mobile Laser Weapon System is another of ASELSAN’s new solutions that will contribute to Turkey’s air defense. The GÖKBERK Mobile Laser Weapon System stands out as a weapon system that can search, detect, and track UAVs with radar and electro-optical sensors, as well as physically neutralize threats with a laser weapon with a power of at least 5kW and functionally neutralize them by jamming with the Kangal jammer subsystem. The GÖKBERK weapon system is compatible with all 6×6 wheeled vehicle platforms. Ground and naval platforms, power plants, airports, border posts, headquarters structures, and routes for convoy crossing are planned as the GÖKBERK system’s priority use zones. In the near future, the company also plans to increase the power of current platforms and develop Modular Laser Weapons Towers that will be integrated into air defense systems with distributed architecture.

3048d771-4452-4f12-8a07-1884159ddd86-1024x535.jpg


The GÖKBERK Mobile Laser Weapon System / From Aselsan
The GÖKDEMİR medium altitude air defense system was the last item the company launched in the field of air defense. The GÖKDEMİR Launch System mounted on the SEYİT carrier vehicle will be used to launch the GÖKDOĞAN missile, which was developed by TÜBİTAK-SAGE and updated in accordance with air defense requirements, during air and missile defense missions against threats from aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, helicopters, cruise and air-to-ground missiles. By integrating with the ASELSAN Fire Control Device, the GÖKDEMİR Launch System successfully completed its first test-fire in June 2022. According to the company, GÖKDEMİR, which can be prepared and deployed in a very short amount of time, has features such as 360-degree threat neutralization capability with its rotating turret structure, multiple engagement and sequential firing, intermediate stage guidance with data link, missile loading platform and crane system, multi-use canister, and wired/wireless communication.

F06WdgYWIAAmZUR-1024x535.jpg


The GÖKDEMİR Medium Altitude Air Defense System / From Aselsan
In a statement on the subject, Turkish Defense Industry President Görgün congratulated all ASELSAN employees who contributed to the development of air defense systems, saying, “Air defense systems are one of the priority issues in the whole world. We have made significant progress in air defense in recent years… We have developed products in every layer of layered air defense systems. As you are aware, our SİPER test-fires continue to go well. Hopefully, they will be accepted this year. Each project today has been developed to meet the need for different platforms of the layered air defense system. While enjoying the advantage of having these systems as a country, our support to friendly and allied countries will continue.”


 

DBdev

Committed member
Messages
298
Reactions
8 522
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
About the different air defense systems


At the 16th International Defense Industry Fair (IDEF 2023) in Istanbul, ASELSAN, a defense company affiliated with the Turkish Armed Forces Foundation (TSKGV), held a launch ceremony for four new air defense products. The ceremony was attended by Turkish Defense Industry President Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün, ASELSAN General Manager Ahmet Akyol, TÜBİTAK SAGE President Gürcan Okumuş, and ASELSAN board members.

The first of the products unveiled by the company was the GÜRZ Hybrid Air Defense System. The company’s first product was the GÜRZ Hybrid Air Defense System. GÜRZ, according to Aselsan, is an innovative air and missile defense system with multiple interceptors against very low and low altitude air threats. This new Air and Missile Defense System will protect both fixed facilities and in-transit convoys from threats such as UAVs, helicopters, and airborne munitions. Mounted on an 8×8 armored wheeled platform, GÜRZ consists of components such as a 35-millimeter air defense gun, 8 low altitude air defense missiles, 4 active electronically scanned array (AESA) search radars, a fire control radar, electro-optical sensors, and data link.

Another product unveiled for the first time was the air defense system GÖKSUR, produced for naval platforms. Developed as the equivalent of the US-made RIM-116 RAM System in Turkish Navy Ada class corvettes, GÖKSUR is a short-range, close-range air defense system. Three different configurations will be offered to adapt to changing threat conditions due to the modular design of this new system, which will be able to detect and neutralize various threats such as anti-ship missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, cruise missiles, aircraft, and helicopters. The system will employ 12 IIR guided BOZDOĞAN-DH missiles developed by the Defense Industry Research and Development Institute of the Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey (TÜBİTAK-SAGE) as interceptor missiles. The GÖKSUR Close Air Defense Missile System, according to the company, has a number of features, including 360-degree threat destruction capability, the ability to intercept multiple targets, standalone and/or platform integrated operation, intermediate guidance with data link, and high single launch interception possibility.

bd5601b5-100c-4e85-8e67-ca14f5e6348b.jpg


The GÖKSUR Close-Range Air Defense Missile System developed by Aselsan / From Aselsan
The GÖKBERK Mobile Laser Weapon System is another of ASELSAN’s new solutions that will contribute to Turkey’s air defense. The GÖKBERK Mobile Laser Weapon System stands out as a weapon system that can search, detect, and track UAVs with radar and electro-optical sensors, as well as physically neutralize threats with a laser weapon with a power of at least 5kW and functionally neutralize them by jamming with the Kangal jammer subsystem. The GÖKBERK weapon system is compatible with all 6×6 wheeled vehicle platforms. Ground and naval platforms, power plants, airports, border posts, headquarters structures, and routes for convoy crossing are planned as the GÖKBERK system’s priority use zones. In the near future, the company also plans to increase the power of current platforms and develop Modular Laser Weapons Towers that will be integrated into air defense systems with distributed architecture.

3048d771-4452-4f12-8a07-1884159ddd86-1024x535.jpg


The GÖKBERK Mobile Laser Weapon System / From Aselsan
The GÖKDEMİR medium altitude air defense system was the last item the company launched in the field of air defense. The GÖKDEMİR Launch System mounted on the SEYİT carrier vehicle will be used to launch the GÖKDOĞAN missile, which was developed by TÜBİTAK-SAGE and updated in accordance with air defense requirements, during air and missile defense missions against threats from aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, helicopters, cruise and air-to-ground missiles. By integrating with the ASELSAN Fire Control Device, the GÖKDEMİR Launch System successfully completed its first test-fire in June 2022. According to the company, GÖKDEMİR, which can be prepared and deployed in a very short amount of time, has features such as 360-degree threat neutralization capability with its rotating turret structure, multiple engagement and sequential firing, intermediate stage guidance with data link, missile loading platform and crane system, multi-use canister, and wired/wireless communication.

F06WdgYWIAAmZUR-1024x535.jpg


The GÖKDEMİR Medium Altitude Air Defense System / From Aselsan
In a statement on the subject, Turkish Defense Industry President Görgün congratulated all ASELSAN employees who contributed to the development of air defense systems, saying, “Air defense systems are one of the priority issues in the whole world. We have made significant progress in air defense in recent years… We have developed products in every layer of layered air defense systems. As you are aware, our SİPER test-fires continue to go well. Hopefully, they will be accepted this year. Each project today has been developed to meet the need for different platforms of the layered air defense system. While enjoying the advantage of having these systems as a country, our support to friendly and allied countries will continue.”


Does anybody know if Turkish air defense missiles can be launched all at once or not like most Israeli ones against a saturation attack arriving from different directions at the exact same time? I am afraid launch sequence may be too slow like the Turkish MLRS waiting almost 1 second between each rocket.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom