TR Air Defence Programs

[uçuyorum]

Hisar D RF already differs from Hisard O RF somewhat right?

So from this statement Hisar D RF block 2 will be like a hybrid between Siper and Hisar.

 

[UkroTurk]

Do you really think They won't produce G40?
I think they are cheating.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Mr. Ibrahim also stated that a new missile that can be packaged as an ESSM-like quad-pack is being developed with modifications to be carried out on the Hisar RF-D (the missile we see as Siper Blok-1).

Folding strakes which seem to be positioned more forward with folding fins to accompany them. Overall diameter seems to be the same with HİSAR RF but the shape might be more uniform.

Do you really think They won't produce G40?
I think they are cheating.

I feel your pain. It could be developed even faster if you think about it. But I ain't gonna complain as HİSAR-D Block 2 will retain advantages like TVC and dual pulse engine. Would rather like to see G40 re-evolved into an extended range GÖKDOĞAN as an alternative missile for GÖKDEMİR and possibly aircraft. AMRAAM-ER is being studied as an interim extended range air to air missile after its journey with NASAMS.

 

[Terrain]

Burc X a larger variant envisioned on one of the weapon platforms vehicles: Otokar Akrep 2.

BTW not to scale

Imagine this in every Kalekol and light vehicle convoys.

.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Yeah good idea, I should probably make a BURÇ sometime, but BURC is so wide on its own. They could probably modify missile launchers (I'd say adding the extra space above instead of widening) to have provisions for SUNGUR, CİRİT and OMTAS canisters. I don't see much advantage in OMTAS because of its rather short range though. If we could have 2x UMTAS-GM Block 1, that might work better.

Murat İkinci once said that they will add LEVENT missiles to BURÇ. This means there will be longer and probably larger missile pods (Hope they consider transitioning to 30x113 with ATOM ammo in future for better space). If my guesses are correct, LEVENT's length is more than UMTAS-GM Block 1's so there could be an option to have UMTAS-GM Block 1's in place of 4 LEVENTs as a multirole capability.

Should we call this idea M-SHORAD Premium edition or something? Lol

 

[Terrain]

True Omtas does have shorter range but there is difficulty in placing Umtas in canisters because of it's unholdable wings, that takes more space and we have to wait for Umtas GM as it seems we have done a huge leap in propellant technology with that.

Ideally a multirole missile that could attack land and air that is sungur/cirit size would have been better. If only Aselsan could develop a seeker for that.

 

[Terrain]

 

[Kaan Azman]

here is difficulty in placing Umtas in canisters because of it's unholdable wings

UMTAS-GM Block 1/2 missiles are meant to be canister launched like SPIKE NLOS; unlike UMTAS

 

[Terrain]

 

[Sanchez]

Knowing TSK, hell needs to freeze first before they go for a multirole platform tasked with both AA and anti armor.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Knowing TSK, hell needs to freeze first before they go for a multirole platform tasked with both AA and anti armor.

YALMAN can be a starting point. I am just sick of this lack in flexibile thinking

 

[Sanchez]

YALMAN can be a starting point. I am just sick of this lack in flexibile thinking

Even using Kaplan STA as a starting point for a standoff support system was a huge step that surprised me. We know they worked in implementing Cirit a decade ago on ACVs and fixed pedestal mounts. You are right that it was a starting point. An AA-AG mix though, employs two different class of soldiers, artillery(?) and air defence.

 

[boredaf]

Knowing TSK, hell needs to freeze first before they go for a multirole platform tasked with both AA and anti armor.

YALMAN can be a starting point. I am just sick of this lack in flexibile thinking

They aren't being inflexible just for the fun of it. It is easier and safer to have a vehicle dedicated to one thing, shorad in this instance, than trying to make a jack of all trades vehicle and make its crew divide their attention and expertise. Same thing goes for vehicles with anti-armor role or fire support role.

 

[Sanchez]

ADATS could be an interesting read for such a concept. Though it employed double role missiles, instead of different mounts.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Even using Kaplan STA as a starting point for a standoff support system was a huge step that surprised me. We know they worked in implementing Cirit a decade ago on ACVs and fixed pedestal mounts. You are right that it was a starting point. An AA-AG mix though, employs two different class of soldiers, artillery(?) and air defence.

I feel like the introduction to multirole systems should be done through integrating SUNGUR on new variant of YALMAN, KMC-U, which will have a wider array of missile options plus 7.62 machine gun. It is clearly stated that both laser and IIR guided missiles can be launched so I don't see any obstacles other than modifying FCS.

 

[Sanchez]

I feel like the introduction to multirole systems should be done through integrating SUNGUR on new variant of YALMAN, KMC-U, which will have a wider array of missile options plus 7.62 machine gun. It is clearly stated that both laser and IIR guided missiles can be launched so I don't see any obstacles other than modifying FCS.

ÖKK could be an interesting tester of such a platform. A KMC-U on a Pars 6x6, armed with UMTAS-GMs and Sungur.
And there's a precedent, so could be an easier sell to our dinosaurs.

 

[Terrain]

They aren't being inflexible just for the fun of it. It is easier and safer to have a vehicle dedicated to one thing, shorad in this instance, than trying to make a jack of all trades vehicle and make its crew divide their attention and expertise. Same thing goes for vehicles with anti-armor role or fire support role.

I think it would be an interesting concept. Although as you said I'm not sure about how practical it might be as this could be some kind of a stand alone umbrella for a convoy, or a village and what if we think like you, and separate the AIR to AIR and it's not within range of the vehicle that detected it? That's why it is better to have multirole vehicle that could suppress all possible targets. Some kind of a bubble around a perimeter with multilayered protection within it's range.

Sorry for the edits

 

[boredaf]

I think it would be an interesting concept although not sure about how practical it might be as it could be some kind of an umbrella for a convoy or a village and what if the air to air is not within range? That's why a multirole vehicle that could have a bubble of multilayered protection of it's range is ideal.

If a convoy or location is important enough to require mechanized protection we can afford to put 2 vehicles there. As a concept it might be interesting but I don't think it would help us to halve either air defense or anti-armour or infantry capability of a vehicle just so we can have 1 less vehicle in a convoy.

 

[Kaan Azman]

HİSAR-D Block 2 based on ROKETSAN's scaled MİDLAS model from IDEF'23

 

[Terrain]

If a convoy or location is important enough to require mechanized protection we can afford to put 2 vehicles there. As a concept it might be interesting but I don't think it would help us to halve either air defense or anti-armour or infantry capability of a vehicle just so we can have 1 less vehicle in a convoy.

Another thought think small scale internal conflict so rather than a town think a village, as it seems BURC is designed for low-intensity conflict (LIC).

So if we are at war with a neighboring country and internal uprising was triggered. We send this to villages that are suspected of attacking a base nearby. So the dude's will go in and paint target, the system rains in missiles. Terror groups send in Quadcopter with improvised or air dropped mortar rounds like in Ukraine, the system takes that down. Think this is attached to a search convoy from a local Kalekol of few Cobra2/Ejder/Vuran with limited resources.