TR Air Defence Programs

[boredaf]

I have a question. Do you guys think that GURZ with integrated Akdogan missile, Gokberk laser weapon, its turret and a suitable radar can act as a C-RAM in a point defence scenario?

I personally don't think so. C-RAM's need to act like CIWS, which is why the one US uses is literally a Phalanx but on land, and other systems are all more or less the same. While in theory Gürz could also do that with its cannon, I think Korkut is a much better solution for that, or, the turret MKE was making which had 6 barrel 20mm gun, basically a land Phalanx.

Of course, once the laser solutions are advanced enough, I expect they will first complement, then slowly replace other solutions.

 

[lLiberté]

the turret MKE was making which had 6 barrel 20mm gun, basically a land Phalanx.

That turret was actually promising design, I'm not sure why it was not pursued. It weighs around only 500kg and would be cheap solution for FPV kamikaze drones and smaller drones. It also had pod for two MANPADS which would be useful against bigger threats.

 

[boredaf]

That turret was actually promising design, I'm not sure why it was not pursued. It weighs around only 500kg and would be cheap solution for FPV kamikaze drones and smaller drones. It also had pod for two MANPADS which would be useful against bigger threats.

View attachment 65526

I don't know if the latest iteration has the pod, but I guess it could be added if necessary. I remember it being tested sometime in 2023 and was shown in IDEF 23, so perhaps it'll enter inventory later on.

Edit: Also, I just checked and you're way off in the weight department, MKE's version weighs 3500 kgs. The one you shared looks completely different as well.

 

[Sanchez]

That turret was actually promising design, I'm not sure why it was not pursued. It weighs around only 500kg and would be cheap solution for FPV kamikaze drones and smaller drones. It also had pod for two MANPADS which would be useful against bigger threats.

View attachment 65526

That crate only holds 100 or so ammo, so less than 0.5 seconds of engagement time for a Vulcan. And when you add a bigger ammo box and the place to hold that box, it's now a 2.5 ton system. There's a reason why C-RAM is on a flatbed trailer with a huge ammo drum under the gun.

 

[lLiberté]

I don't know if the latest iteration has the pod, but I guess it could be added if necessary. I remember it being tested sometime in 2023 and was shown in IDEF 23, so perhaps it'll enter inventory later on.

Edit: Also, I just checked and you're way off in the weight department, MKE's version weighs 3500 kgs. The one you shared looks completely different as well.

The one I mentioned was shown in İDEF 2019, it is different than what is on MKE's website, YHSS. YHSS is proper C-RAM solution they're different. As I mentioned, it is discounted or evolved into YHSS.

That crate only holds 100 or so ammo, so less than 0.5 seconds of engagement time for a Vulcan. And when you add a bigger ammo box and the place to hold that box, it's now a 2.5 ton system. There's a reason why C-RAM is on a flatbed trailer with a huge ammo drum under the gun.

Precisely and thats probably why it was discontinued and/or evolved into YHSS. I'm not arguing that system was the best, if it would been, we would've seen in on the field already. All I'm saying the concept way good and I do believe we should pursue additional cheaper system against FPVs, more and more will be available on market in future and it's only matter of time we face with them in Middle East and Africa.

 

[BaburKhan]

GÜRZ Air Defense System will be added to the Turkish Armed Forces inventory

ASELSAN General Manager Ahmet Akyol made special statements to Defence Turk within the scope of the World Defense Show (WDS)

en.defenceturk.net

 

[what]

We will add it to our army’s inventory within a few years. Thats the actual quote. Clickbait title.

 

[dBSPL]

Turkey and Greece will formally join the German-led missile-defense project European Sky Shield

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1758048764554551542

The wind is changing direction? We are starting another joint military program with the Germans after years, let's see what comes out of it.

 

[what]

The goal of Sky Shield is to

It involves countries jointly procuring air- and missile-defense systems and is designed to increase cost efficiency and flexibility.

and

The ESSI will use multi-layered defence, with the following systems planned:[6]

• Medium range: primarily IRIS-T SLM
• Long range: MIM-104 Patriot
• Very long range (exoatmospheric): Arrow 3

European Sky Shield Initiative - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are we buying Patriots or IRIS-T? Arrow 3 is probably not realistic due to current political circumstances.

 

[Sanchez]

Turkey and Greece will formally join the German-led missile-defense project European Sky Shield

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1758048764554551542

The wind is changing direction? We are starting another joint military program with the Germans after years, let's see what comes out of it.

Thinking about capabilities this would bring, doesn't ESSI use Patriot for long range, and Arrow 3 for ABM? How do we get into *that* ? This is not THAAD or SAMP-T that we may think about getting into with some back and forth.

 

[Bogeyman]

The goal of Sky Shield is to


and

European Sky Shield Initiative - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are we buying Patriots or IRIS-T? Arrow 3 is probably not realistic due to current political circumstances.

It is said that a missile defense system can be purchased from Europe within the scope of the project. Apart from that, it seems certain that no air defense system will be purchased.

 

[uçuyorum]

Maybe we are integrating SIPER into this system, and some manufacturing partnership? There were some talks about acquiring Patriot PAC 3 MSE for ballistic threats.

 

[Afif]

Sounds like a political participation. Not a technical one. Israel will never sell something sensitive as Arrow-3 to Türkiye. On the other hand, HISAR O+ is not much different than IRIS-T SLM. And the point of SIPER program is develop indeginous alternative for patriot or SAMP/T. But even if Türkiye need PAC-3, it can directly purchase it from USA.

 

[cr33pt3d]

maybe this could pave the way for EF2000.

 

[Chocopie]

ESSI is practically a business platform to sell anti-air systems to (Eastern) European countries. Predominantly IRIS-T SLM and Patriot missiles, system parts which are jointly produced in Germany by Comlog (MBDA & Raytheon).

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_221626.htm

That‘s a reason why most ongoing European air defense tenders will go to IRIS-T in the name of system conformity, i.e. Romania. Germans are genius!

Arrow 3 is a weird procurement (exoatmospheric anti-ballistic system against ICBM) instead of stationing air defense systems against quasi-ballistic Russian SRBM like Iskander or lower altitude MRBM in Europe.

 

[TheInsider]

This is mostly a political move. I don't expect Turkiye to buy anything and sellers like Israel won't provide anything to Turkiye.

 

[Sanchez]

Interesting wording from Güler.

"This initiative, led by Germany, is an important step towards the fulfillment of NATO's requirements while ensuring interoperability and integration of allies. Turkey is ready to contribute to this initiative with a wide range of national capabilities. I would like to thank Germany for its coordinating role in this important initiative. We will be pleased to work with you in this initiative that serves the concept of collective defense"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1758128876239347893

 

[GoatsMilk]

Interesting wording from Güler.

"This initiative, led by Germany, is an important step towards the fulfillment of NATO's requirements while ensuring interoperability and integration of allies. Turkey is ready to contribute to this initiative with a wide range of national capabilities. I would like to thank Germany for its coordinating role in this important initiative. We will be pleased to work with you in this initiative that serves the concept of collective defense"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1758128876239347893

to me it looks like they play Turks for fools. keep screwing us, attacking us, undermining us, then just before it reaches breaking point throw a few scraps our way and were pacified again. banana style politics.

 

[boredaf]

to me it looks like they play Turks for fools.

How exactly did they do that with this?

And, would you rather have us cut all ties with our biggest trading partners and turn into North Korea with only China and Russia to trade with?

 

[GoatsMilk]

How exactly did they do that with this?

And, would you rather have us cut all ties with our biggest trading partners and turn into North Korea with only China and Russia to trade with?

They do it many ways. In many of my previous posts i've already gone into great detail about these things.

So just a few examples of how they play Turks for fools. Germany is the most important player in the EU, they basically bankroll the Greek state. Have the most influence and power over her. When it comes to Turkey every single hostile greek position is taken against Turkey, whether it be the east med, Libya, the sea of islands etc. They empower their hostility against us.

In Syria just yesterday they embargoed us over things like tanks parts. They support the PKK terrorists and house feto against us. I could go on and on and on.

All these projects you do with germans when it suits them they will simply reengage and shit on Turkey. They are basically the temprory carrot to fool and subdue the Turks and buy their side more time to use against us.

What i'm saying is that you cannot keep falling for these games. For example, they support the pkk against Turkey well why is Turkey hosting 13 million illegals that all want to go the EU?

The point is, if you keep bowing your head down they will just keep bending you over. Every time they engage in hostile acts against our nation their has to be repercussions, otherwise they will keep doing it. And in the long run you will come out the big loser.

also never forget back in 2015 shortly after the Turks downed a Russian jet.

Turkey & Syria Analysis: Why Germany Is Withdrawing Its Patriot Missiles - and What's Missing in the Decision - EA WorldView

Germany's withdrawal of Patriot missiles from Turkey is political, objecting to Ankara's approach to Kurds and to "safe zone" in northern Syria.

eaworldview.com

Germany is more interest in protecting marxist terrorists then it is a NATO nation. Tomorrow when you want to strike the pkk again, they will embargo you over the projects you entered into.

The end goal of the west and the PKK support is to balkanise Turkey. To destroy our sovereignty and our peace. Lets start calling a spade a spade. If we don't say what going on, we leave it purely in the hands of their corrupt media to lie and deceive.