TR Air Defence Programs

[boredaf]

Long range, high velocity (direct and linear flight path / rapid reaction), high rpm.

Would smaller diameter mean any of that? We have high velocity 40 mm grenades and 30/35 mm bullets, I don't see what difference 30 mm would make.

 

[UkroTurk]

Would smaller diameter mean any of that? We have high velocity 40 mm grenades and 30/35 mm bullets, I don't see what difference 30 mm would make.

3 times more velocity makes flight trajectory accurate, doubles the range, increase the rate of fire while keeping compactness.

35mm Korkut/Göker/ Gökdeniz is huge but has 3.5 km effektiv range and 2x550rpm.

Rheinmetalls 30x173mm has 2.5km effective range and 1000rpm though We haven't got it yet.

But we have 30x113mm solution at hands . İt could have 2/2.5km eff range and 1500rpm. 30mm ATOM would be absolutely Better than 40mm ATOM grenades while keeping compactness.

I would like to recommend you to listen how dual barrel DEFA gun (uncle of VENOM) bursts.
Very light and compact cannon with optimal range .

DEFA 553 30mm Cannon Gun Run

The Argentine Air Force conducts a practice air strike and some gun runs using a DEFA 553 30mm cannon.

www.military.com

here is my solution

 

[Sanchez]

Would smaller diameter mean any of that? We have high velocity 40 mm grenades and 30/35 mm bullets, I don't see what difference 30 mm would make.

High velocity in that 40mm is compared to other grenade launchers, not cannon sized calibers. As UkroTurk mentioned, 40mm MGL is pretty slow.

35mm gun, in this case the GDF or its local clone is a very long and bulky gun and the feeding system is also pretty big, so the lightest 35mm turret you can have from it is Korhan or Göker sized.

Venom LR or a substitute of it is best of both worlds and can be fitted on a STOP sized turret on a 4x4 vehicle, hence its main advantage, if it works as advertised of course.

40mm MGL systems like Aselsan’s Şahin still has a place on the battlefield, mainly on base duties, but a 30mm gun like this is much more mobile.

 

[BaburKhan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1794645393382523076

 

[Radonsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1794645393382523076

sauce (source)?

 

[BaburKhan]

sauce (source)?

Maybe someone here know more.

 

[Heartbang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1794645393382523076

Is the terminology in the tweet correct?
The device in the picture is an Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle (EKV).

Multiple Kill Vehicle refers to a US missile defense program that packed multiple EKV's in a single payload

 

[Sanchez]

sauce (source)?

This twitter user is known for huge claims and outright lies from time to time, so this is indeed the best response to it.

 

[TheInsider]

Is the terminology in the tweet correct?
The device in the picture is an Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle (EKV).

Multiple Kill Vehicle refers to a US missile defense program that packed multiple EKV's in a single payload
View attachment 68259

It is indeed EKV and it is nothing new. One has to produce an EKV to develop an MKV. Tubitak SAGE and Roketsan have been developing subsystems and researching base technologies for years. Exoatmospheric interception capability will be introduced after 2028.

 

[CAN_TR]

3 times more velocity makes flight trajectory accurate, doubles the range, increase the rate of fire while keeping compactness.

35mm Korkut/Göker/ Gökdeniz is huge but has 3.5 km effektiv range and 2x550rpm.

Rheinmetalls 30x173mm has 2.5km effective range and 1000rpm though We haven't got it yet.

But we have 30x113mm solution at hands . İt could have 2/2.5km eff range and 1500rpm. 30mm ATOM would be absolutely Better than 40mm ATOM grenades while keeping compactness.

Gökdeniz is comparable to Rheinmetall Millenium (35mm) and if you look at them you will clearly see that Gökdeniz is the more compact one, the 30x173mm (SeaSnake) you are talking about is not even a CIWS but a RCWS.


30x173mm vs 30x113mm
This should prove that 30x113mm is not suitable for CIWS.

And here a comparison of 35x228mm (Gökdeniz) vs 30x178mm (SeaSnake).

 

[UkroTurk]

30x173mm (SeaSnake) you are talking about is not even a CIWS but a RCWS.


30x173mm vs 30x113mm
This should prove that 30x113mm is not suitable for CIWS.

What makes the ammunition as real CIWS? The number of tungsten balls?
(35mm has 150 pieces tungsten balls. 30mm has 100 pieces tungsten balls.)
According to Swiss logic, yes it is.

Germans and swiss preferred the more number of tiny balls to hit a cruise missiles as well as mortar rounds.


what is the point of of using 20mm cal in Phalanx as CIWS?
If the answer: 20mm bullet is monolithic solid penetrator , then reduce the number of tungsten balls and make them larger in 30mm cal. Anyway they would hit larger area than 20mm Phalanx.

İf 30x110mm bullet had 9 pieces large iron balls( like shotguns buckshot), preprogrammed bullet would be exploded in front of cruise missile and one shot 9 large balls before the target could totally damage the target.
And remember, you shoot several times, 1000rpm.

Why insisting on number zero birdshot pellets?

Anyway it is a complete science and need deep knowledge of naval Battlefield. German Logic doesn't work well always. 35mm cal aims also mortar rounds.
Different preferences , different armies.

İngilizlerin star streak füzesi 3 tane 3cm lik çelik oku lazerlr hedefe yönlendiriyor. Oklar daireler çiziyor. Daireler çizdikleri için 3ün 1i kesin vuruyor. Dakikada 1000 atışla, 30mm atom mühimmat 20 tane büyük çelik ( göreceli olarak daha büyük)misketi hedefin 20metre önünde patlatsa Cruise füzeside , quadrocopterde kaçamaz. 1 metre çap ile etki ederler. Ama havan topu mermisi yakalayamaz. Almanların derdi aynı zamanda havan yakalamak. Onun için bol bol ince çelik saçmalar atıyor Millenium gun.


Birde şu açıdan bakın , ya düşman Sovyet tipi eski zırhlı ve ağır seyir füzesi atarsa, hiçbir kinetik enerjisi olmayan hem de incecik serpilmiş saçmalarla, Korkut, Gökdeniz zırhı delip durdurabilir mi ?
Neyse çok uzattım. Artık bu konuda susucam.

 

[CAN_TR]

What makes the ammunition as real CIWS? The number of tungsten balls?
(35mm has 150 pieces tungsten balls. 30mm has 100 pieces tungsten balls.)
According to Swiss logic, yes it is.

Germans and swiss preferred the more number of tiny balls to hit a cruise missiles as well as mortar rounds.


what is the point of of using 20mm cal in Phalanx as CIWS?
If the answer: 20mm bullet is monolithic solid penetrator , then reduce the number of tungsten balls and make them larger in 30mm cal. Anyway they would hit larger area than 20mm Phalanx.

İf 30x110mm bullet had 9 pieces large iron balls( like shotguns buckshot), preprogrammed bullet would be exploded in front of cruise missile and one shot 9 large balls before the target could totally damage the target.
And remember, you shoot several times, 1000rpm.

Why insisting on number zero birdshot pellets?

View attachment 68271


Anyway it is a complete science and need deep knowledge of naval Battlefield. German Logic doesn't work well always. 35mm cal aims also mortar rounds.
Different preferences , different armies.

30x113mm has a pathetic muzzle velocity, good against land targets but not suitable for CIWS.

 

[Heartbang]

It is indeed EKV and it is nothing new. One has to produce an EKV to develop an MKV. Tubitak SAGE and Roketsan have been developing subsystems and researching base technologies for years. Exoatmospheric interception capability will be introduced after 2028.

Is this date for EKV or MKV?

 

[Afif]

Is this date for EKV or MKV?

Obviously for EKV. There isn't any MKV in service today anywhere. It requires ICBM class booster.

 

[Kaan Azman]

ASELSAN Develops C-RAM Capability for KORKUT SPAAG | TURDEF

In its 2023 Activity Report, ASELSAN has revealed that it is working on C-RAM capability for KORKUT 35 mm SPAAG.

turdef.com

(Technical inconvenience for the picture not appearing, here you go till the issue is solved)

I honestly can't wait for the C-RAM KORKUT

 

[BaburKhan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1799562640412258740

 

[Aqerdf]

Unpopular opinions, rants, etc.: Burç should have mono barrel & linkless feed 35mm or dual barrel & linkless feed 25mm. With electric driven Mk-19 & 40mm atom RCWS combo.

To me, these are the only realistic solutions.

-20mm M197 turret has both short range and low rate of fire. If Burç will fire non-smart munitions, it it should better be fast firing.
-20mm gatling has short range.
-30x113mm has short range, for its short range, revolver feeding makes it expensive, it's hypothetical 30x113 atom munition is also makes it expensive.
-Revolver feeding mono-35mm isn't here and expensive.
-Linkless feeding dual-35mm.. Well, for Burç's potential role / ac. numbers (convoys, frontline fobs) is expensive. And big. For Burç. I think..

By writing short range, i meant for C-UAS and smart/small munition saturation attacks, cheap-build cruise missile attacks.

 

[Strong AI]

ASELSAN KORKUT Air Defence Gun System integrated on an 8x8 vehicle will be unveiled at #EUROSATORY2024.
.
17 - 21 June 2024
Paris

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1801192098479096058

 

[boredaf]

ASELSAN KORKUT Air Defence Gun System integrated on an 8x8 vehicle will be unveiled at #EUROSATORY2024.
.
17 - 21 June 2024
Paris

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1801192098479096058

This is what FNSS showed as a variant in their Pars Alpha catalogue. I wonder if the vehicle is that one.

https://fnss.com.tr/uploads/docs/2024ENGCATALOGUE/1706888472_pars-alpha-8x8-eng-2024-tri-fold.pdf?1706888472

 

[Strong AI]

This is what FNSS showed as a variant in their Pars Alpha catalogue. I wonder if the vehicle is that one.

https://fnss.com.tr/uploads/docs/2024ENGCATALOGUE/1706888472_pars-alpha-8x8-eng-2024-tri-fold.pdf?1706888472

ARMA

EDIT: I think this was already in IDEF 2023
EDIT 2: But why do they write it like it will be showed the first time?