TR Air Defence Programs

[Turko]

When will Roketsan share dimensions of HISAR missiles? It would be great to know its weight, length, diameter, warhead information. Global SAM producers like MBDA don't hesitate sharing infos.

 

[Combat-Master]

When will Roketsan share dimensions of HISAR missiles? It would be great to know its weight, length, diameter, warhead information. Global SAM producers like MBDA don't hesitate sharing infos.

It'll be similar to VL MICA NG in dimensions.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Upper tier SAM (90-100km Hisar, Siper, S-400) will take care of those targets flying supersonic at high altitude. The targets that a Hisar-O+ will encounter are not high-flying supersonic planes but subsonic fighters, helicopters, UCAV's and PGM's at mostly low and medium altitude.

That is why Turkey is developing a layered ADS each with their own strengths and weaknesses complementing each other.

How about low flying supersonic missiles? You can’t expect to hit sea skimming missile that comes in to your radar at 30km and has to be engaged at closer than 10km, with Siper!
Also if a supersonic plane is at 30-40km distance, you wouldn’t send a 150km range missile to intercept it.
Also my criticism was not only for Hisar but for a2a missiles too.
If you have only Hisar O+ or RF in your VLS tubes on you ship and have registered a supersonic plane or missile coming towards you, you have to use your Hisar RF. But have we ever tested it against such a threat?

 

[Philips]

How about low flying supersonic missiles?

The Hisar is primarily a land-based system and thus unlikely to deal with (supersonic) sea-skimming missiles in a naval environment. But the hardware is there to do that in theory. TVC and dual pulse for extra hit chance against terminal manouvering targets.

You can’t expect to hit sea skimming missile that comes in to your radar at 30km and has to be engaged at closer than 10km, with Siper!

Perhaps it can but there are short and medium range systems better suited to do that like RAM, ESSM, SA-N-12/HQ-16 and gun barreled CIWS.

Also if a supersonic plane is at 30-40km distance, you wouldn’t send a 150km range missile to intercept it.

Depends on the situation. On land, such a plane would primarily be intercepted/targeted by fighters. A plane flying at supersonic speed will be detected by the LRSAM radar(s) at longer ranges than the range of a LRSAM. A plane at supersonic speeds and low altitude will have its range drastically reduced by the thicker air and if it carries any payload, will also be severely limited in evasive manouvers. If targeted, it will have to drop its payload in order to stand a chance of surviving and will result in mission failure.

If you have only Hisar O+ or RF in your VLS tubes on you ship and have registered a supersonic plane or missile coming towards you, you have to use your Hisar RF.

I would argue that the Hisar-O+ with its IIR seeker is better suited for that job than an active radar guided Hisar. IIR is more difficult to counter than a RF seeker by a plane. And a missile doesn't carry any counter measures at all, so theoretically an IIR and RF seeker will perform the same.

But in what case would a supersonic plane be doing within the range of a naval MRSAM? Desperation? Potential kamikaze attack? If so than the attacking plane would be in much more in trouble than the attacked ship.

If the Hisar gets deployed on ships then I expect it to be adapted for naval use and will do its job properly against the most common aerial threats.

 

[Era_shield]

Looking forward to seeing a version with R/F seeker.
View attachment 25393

Pretty sure you're looking at it.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Is this possible for Hisar A?

The Discardable Nose is developed for the Umkhonto Missile to reduce the drag and extend the missile range

Denel Dynamics develops expendable nose cone to increase missile range - defenceWeb

Denel Dynamics interns have developed a nose cone to reduce drag and thus increase the range of the Umkhonto infrared guided missile by more than ten kilometres. The expendable nose cone will be fitted to the Umkhonto EIR surface-to-air weapon. This was revealed during the Denel Dynamics Interns...

www.defenceweb.co.za

Denise Wilson, Denel Dynamics deputy chief executive, said that the nose cone has been on the cards for a while and will be incorporated onto future missiles. This should increase range from 25 to 35 kilometres for the Umkhonto EIR.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Finally the biggest rival of MİCA VL/ Umkhonto VL has appeared. I hope it will achieve great export success as IIR guided missiles bring Great tactical solution.

Umkhonto is effectively dead, they couldn't even get a loan from South African banks for a mutli million dollar Egyptian contract for development of the Umkhonto-R.

 

[Siper>MMU]

Is this possible for Hisar A?

The Discardable Nose is developed for the Umkhonto Missile to reduce the drag and extend the missile range

Denel Dynamics develops expendable nose cone to increase missile range - defenceWeb

Denel Dynamics interns have developed a nose cone to reduce drag and thus increase the range of the Umkhonto infrared guided missile by more than ten kilometres. The expendable nose cone will be fitted to the Umkhonto EIR surface-to-air weapon. This was revealed during the Denel Dynamics Interns...

www.defenceweb.co.za

Denise Wilson, Denel Dynamics deputy chief executive, said that the nose cone has been on the cards for a while and will be incorporated onto future missiles. This should increase range from 25 to 35 kilometres for the Umkhonto EIR.

Hisar O utilizes a discarding nose cone like Umkhonto.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Hisar O utilizes a discarding nose cone like Umkhonto.

Could it be implemented on the A in theory?


Edit: O is just A with a booster or?

 

[Merzifonlu]

Is this possible for Hisar A?

The Discardable Nose is developed for the Umkhonto Missile to reduce the drag and extend the missile range

Denel Dynamics develops expendable nose cone to increase missile range - defenceWeb

Denel Dynamics interns have developed a nose cone to reduce drag and thus increase the range of the Umkhonto infrared guided missile by more than ten kilometres. The expendable nose cone will be fitted to the Umkhonto EIR surface-to-air weapon. This was revealed during the Denel Dynamics Interns...

www.defenceweb.co.za

Denise Wilson, Denel Dynamics deputy chief executive, said that the nose cone has been on the cards for a while and will be incorporated onto future missiles. This should increase range from 25 to 35 kilometres for the Umkhonto EIR.

Yes. Very likely possible. But not for extending range.

Two layers of thermal transparent layers are placed in front of the IIR receiver. The first thermal transparent layer is separated when the missile approaches the target.

The purpose of this application should be to get rid of the first layer, which heats up due to excessive speed and loses its thermal transparency, and to hit the target using the second thermal transparent layer, which remains cold in the final stage.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

I don't understand why you want to extend the range of Hisar A, there is already Hisar O for that.

 

[Philip the Arab]

I don't understand why you want to extend the range of Hisar A, there is already Hisar O for that.

Isn't Hisar-A on the APC chassis smaller and more mobile than the Hisar-O?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Perhaps it can but there are short and medium range systems better suited to do that like RAM, ESSM, SA-N-12/HQ-16 and gun barreled CIWS.

Our new frigates and ships are probably not going to have RAM or ESSM. The new MDAS will most likely have quad packed Hisar RF for AD purposes. If they can produce a 10km range Sungur, then a RAM replacement may be in the running.
You can’t attack a target at 40-50 km with a RAM replacement or CIWS. If you are using them then the target has already evaded your Hisar RF and you are at your last point of defence.
Hisar may be primarily a land based system. But it will lend itself very well in to a Sea Based AD system too.
What you are saying in your posts are mostly valid points. But I think you are missing the actual point I was trying to make. That was; Just to test a missile with a 600-700km/hr jet propelled target plane is not enough proof that it is going to be just as effective when confronted with a supersonic target. As well as satisfying our curiosity, it will also make it certain for prospective purchasers that it is, as claimed.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Isn't Hisar-A on the APC chassis smaller and more mobile than the Hisar-O?

All subsystems, features and working methods of Hisar O and Hisar A are the same. It just has a smaller fuel and fuselage. The reason for this is to allow the mobile units to fit 4 units in the vehicles in the All In One concept.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

 

[Hexciter]

Isn't Hisar-A on the APC chassis smaller and more mobile than the Hisar-O?

A hint to you: They use same canister.

 

[Siper>MMU]

A hint to you: They use same canister.

O+ canister is a bit longer and heavier. Hisar O vehicles can use A missiles but Autonomus Hisar A cant use O missiles.

 

[Era_shield]

Hisar O utilizes a discarding nose cone like Umkhonto.

Hope you're right but the brochure pictures in the previous page show it launching with a bare IIR nose.

Edit: hmm there are some bumps at the base of the cone that could be related:

 

[Siper>MMU]

Hope you're right but the brochure pictures in the previous page show it launching with a bare IIR nose.

Source is ibrahim sünnetçi.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413889359791673348

Test on hitting target succesfully completed at 25 km an uav.