TR Air Defence Programs

[Anmdt]

Imagine having all three on a ship!

We got the Brrrrrrrrrrt, DakaDaka and Fshewwww

My ultimate CIWS;
2 x Phalanx
2 x single barrel 35mm multi purpose gun
1 x 21 cell Levent

 

[Turko]

My ultimate CIWS;
2 x Phalanx
2 x single barrel 35mm multi purpose gun
1 x 21 cell Levent

Apart from all our jokes , i seriously wonder if one RAM launcher could cover 360degree.

Our enemies must have created the strategy against our point defence capabilities.
For instance , ADA class have just rear RAM , so what if Greeks send Harpoons onto front of the ship?
Again I class will have just rear Gökdeniz CIWS.

One side CIWS / RAM/ LEVENT could engage on cruise missiles?

Althouht Here we just calculated the importance of seconds , but why we don't discuss about importance of 360 coverage for point defence.

İ would prefer 2 Gökdeniz 35mm CIWS ( frontal and rear) rather than one RAM/LEVENT/Phalanx.

Or two phalanx instead of one Gökdeniz CIWS.

And the last variant two RAM launchers.

Does half covered point defence remain a real point defence?

 

[Saithan]

how about STAMP solution on a "elevator" that can be withdrawn under deck to reduce RCS, and raise it up when you need it. Just like those fancy carlights that closed

 

[Yasar_TR]

I quit insisting.

Bak bu da vatan evladı, bunu da biz yaptık. La bu Phalanx neetti size

Rolling missiles and 20mm CIWS combination is the better solution than 35mm Gökdeniz. İ quit.

(Rolling Airfrane Missiles) RAM with 21 missiles costs around 25million dollars. Plus a14 million dollars of Phalanx ; You have 40 million dollars. Then you’ll need 2 of these ; That will make 80 million dollar investment.
I would like to see how the cost of MKE phalanx and Gokdeniz ER combo; or MKE phalanx with Roketsan Levent; will compare against US phalanx plus RAM.

 

[Tornadoss]

I am really looking forwards to see Levent and Gokdeniz-ER.

 

[Turko]

how about STAMP solution on a "elevator" that can be withdrawn under deck to reduce RCS, and raise it up when you need it. Just like those fancy carlights that closed

Americans have such projects. İt is unlikely a programmable ammunition, ammunitions have proximity fuse for airburst.

Even the short 30x113mm m230 chain could be transformed a CIWS with those smart ammunitions. Obviously it will allow creating compact platforms and easy loading systems.

Marines JLTV RWS: 30mm + 7.62 + Stinger

The Marines have just awarded a contract for the Kongsberg RWS for the JLTV: https://defence-blog.com/news/u-s-marine-corps-awards-contract-to-kongsberg-for-xm914-remote-weapon-stations.html The Kongsberg XM914 RWS is the first 30mm remote weapon station to be qualified on the JLTV platform. It...

forums.delphiforums.com

İ don't know if short 30mm smart ammunitions would be effective against cruise missiles.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Looking at the modern missile systems of now and to come; any CIWS system short of engagement range of 3 km is going to be not sufficient to stop supersonic missiles. Phalanx can hit targets at around 1500m max. Latest version of Phalanx has a range of 5500m. But the effective real life hit to kill range has been given as 1490metres max. A Brahmos missile travelling at 1km per second and weighing over 2 tons (3 tons before burning off it‘s fuel) even if hit at that distance most of it’s broken parts will devastate the ship trying to stop it.
It can hit may be one. But will never have enough time to hit a simultaneously launched second Brahmos.
But instead of hard kill, if a wall of metal barrier is formed in front of a supersonic missile, the metal pellets don’t need any speed. The 2 ton weight of the incoming missile will have so much kinetic energy that the pellets that it hits will destroy the missile.

USA 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

 

[Combat-Master]

Americans have such projects. İt is unlikely a programmable ammunition, ammunitions have proximity fuse for airburst.

View attachment 38104
View attachment 38105

Even the short 30x113mm m230 chain could be transformed a CIWS with those smart ammunitions. Obviously it will allow creating compact platforms and easy loading systems.

Marines JLTV RWS: 30mm + 7.62 + Stinger

The Marines have just awarded a contract for the Kongsberg RWS for the JLTV: https://defence-blog.com/news/u-s-marine-corps-awards-contract-to-kongsberg-for-xm914-remote-weapon-stations.html The Kongsberg XM914 RWS is the first 30mm remote weapon station to be qualified on the JLTV platform. It...

forums.delphiforums.com

View attachment 38106
View attachment 38107

İ don't know if short 30mm smart ammunitions would be effective against cruise missiles.

I like Thales 40mm Rapidfire which also has 4km effective engagement range

RAPIDFire: Thales and Nexter to equip French Navy ships with new CIWS system - Naval News

The RAPIDFire system developed by the consortium formed by Thales and Nexter has been chosen by the French defence procurement agency (DGA) to equip future French Navy vessels with new artillery. This new system will provide the Navy’s surface vessels with an effective close-in defence...

www.navalnews.com

 

[Anmdt]

Apart from all our jokes , i seriously wonder if one RAM launcher could cover 360degree.

Our enemies must have created the strategy against our point defence capabilities.
For instance , ADA class have just rear RAM , so what if Greeks send Harpoons onto front of the ship?
Again I class will have just rear Gökdeniz CIWS.

One side CIWS / RAM/ LEVENT could engage on cruise missiles?

Althouht Here we just calculated the importance of seconds , but why we don't discuss about importance of 360 coverage for point defence.

İ would prefer 2 Gökdeniz 35mm CIWS ( frontal and rear) rather than one RAM/LEVENT/Phalanx.

Or two phalanx instead of one Gökdeniz CIWS.

And the last variant two RAM launchers.

Does half covered point defence remain a real point defence?

RAM doesn't need to have direct coverage like Phalanx or others.
As long as it has a blocked view within certain limits, missiles can be fired in a way to later maneuver towards the target, i think the missile can even maneuver 60-80 degrees with ease within first few hundred meters.
That is the reason why CIWS missiles (RAM) is derived from AA missiles, not from manpads.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr Erdoğan: "We have built the HİSARs for now, we will soon complete the Siper and beyond. "

 

[Yasar_TR]

ASELSAN'ın Sarp silah sistemi 'Atom' atacak

ASELSAN, Sarp Uzaktan Komutalı Stabilize Silah Sistemi ile Atom 40 milimetre Yüksek Hızlı Akıllı Mühimmat'ın yeteneklerini birleştirdi

www.savunmasanayiidergilik.com

They have attached a 40mm cannon to Sarp-Dual to be able to fire 40mm Atom ammunition. This makes Sarp Dual a very capable anti air gun. It only has 96 rounds of 40mm Atom on board but it will make Sarp a multi target capable weapon.
The new version will have either of the two of :
1500 rounds of 7.62mm
400 rounds of 12.7mm
96 rounds of 40mm Atom.

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/SARPDUAL_Uzaktan_Komutali_Stabilize_Silah_Sistemi_1123.pdf

 

[Era_shield]

ASELSAN'ın Sarp silah sistemi 'Atom' atacak

ASELSAN, Sarp Uzaktan Komutalı Stabilize Silah Sistemi ile Atom 40 milimetre Yüksek Hızlı Akıllı Mühimmat'ın yeteneklerini birleştirdi

www.savunmasanayiidergilik.com

They have attached a 40mm cannon to Sarp-Dual to be able to fire 40mm Atom ammunition. This makes Sarp Dual a very capable anti air gun. It only has 96 rounds of 40mm Atom on board but it will make Sarp a multi target capable weapon.
The new version will have either of the two of :
1500 rounds of 7.62mm
400 rounds of 12.7mm
96 rounds of 40mm Atom.

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/SARPDUAL_Uzaktan_Komutali_Stabilize_Silah_Sistemi_1123.pdf

With the grenade launcher it's really only suitable against nearby small drones due to the short effective range (~1km against an airborne target).

 

[Kartal1]

ASELSAN'ın Sarp silah sistemi 'Atom' atacak

ASELSAN, Sarp Uzaktan Komutalı Stabilize Silah Sistemi ile Atom 40 milimetre Yüksek Hızlı Akıllı Mühimmat'ın yeteneklerini birleştirdi

www.savunmasanayiidergilik.com

They have attached a 40mm cannon to Sarp-Dual to be able to fire 40mm Atom ammunition. This makes Sarp Dual a very capable anti air gun. It only has 96 rounds of 40mm Atom on board but it will make Sarp a multi target capable weapon.
The new version will have either of the two of :
1500 rounds of 7.62mm
400 rounds of 12.7mm
96 rounds of 40mm Atom.

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/SARPDUAL_Uzaktan_Komutali_Stabilize_Silah_Sistemi_1123.pdf

The problem with the remote controlled weapon I see is that when the gunner raise the barrel in order to hit its target depending on the distance he lose sight of it. We saw that clearly in Romania when our guys shot their 40mm RCWS during Steadfast Defender 2021 exercise. I am not sure if it is based on wrong operation or there is a handicap in the ranging but I am really curious how it will work out with Atom munition.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

We are increasing the firepower of our Turkish Armed Forces by combining anti-tank and air defense capabilities!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482257615421947905

 

[Manomed]

We are increasing the firepower of our Turkish Armed Forces by combining anti-tank and air defense capabilities!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482257615421947905

FINALLY THATS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. Can we get Anti tank missiles on IFV versions of acv-15 now?

 

[Yasar_TR]

HİSAR-O+ Tüm Unsurlarıyla Teslim Edildi | SavunmaSanayiST

HİSAR-O+ Orta İrtifa Hava Savunma Sistemi, tüm unsurlarıyla Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri'ne teslim edildi. HİSAR-O+, orta irtifadaki tehditleri bertaraf edecek.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Hisar O+ system has been delivered to Turkish Armed Forces with all it’s ancillary equipment and elements.
So that means the short and medium altitude air defence systems for Turkey are now operational.
Next in line is the Siper, which will complete the first part of the AD needs of our military for the time being.
Then it is Siper with anti Ballistic Missile capability to come yet.

 

[fushkee]

There will be no system between Hisor-O+ and Siper? Like Hisar-U?

 

[Fairon]

There will be no system between Hisor-O+ and Siper? Like Hisar-U?

Hisar-U renamed as Siper Block 1.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There will be no system between Hisor-O+ and Siper? Like Hisar-U?

Hisar U has become Siper according to all publications.
please see below :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1154662195122360320

 

[Abdelaziz]

There will be no system between Hisor-O+ and Siper? Like Hisar-U?

Hisar rf