TR Air Defence Programs

Lool

Experienced member
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,728
Reactions
11 4,733
Nation of residence
Albania
Nation of origin
Albania
Why is everyone giving up on Ukraine already? Look at the conflict map, Ukrainians are actually doing fairly well in holding them back. Russia is shelling everything but it still doesn't seem to be enough, so they are preparing for another round of heavy bombing to try and soften up the Ukrainians more.
Simply because Russia still has lots of soldiers that are yet to be deployed while Ukraine is using everything it has
Many may see that Ukraine is doing well but IMO, in just day one, Russia controlled most of the power grids, destroyed most of the air bases and controlled all the large airports excpet one which was recently recaptured and all of this is just in DAY ONE!

I respect the ukranians for actually putting up a fight against the third strongest military worldwide but unless they develop something either a tactic or weapon that can turn the tides then their defeat in the long run is imminent
 

Anastasius

Contributor
Moderator
Azerbaijan Moderator
Messages
1,332
Reactions
3 2,935
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Azerbaijan
Simply because Russia still has lots of soldiers that are yet to be deployed while Ukraine is using everything it has
Many may see that Ukraine is doing well but IMO, in just day one, Russia controlled most of the power grids, destroyed most of the air bases and controlled all the large airports excpet one which was recently recaptured and all of this is just in DAY ONE!

I respect the ukranians for actually putting up a fight against the third strongest military worldwide but unless they develop something either a tactic or weapon that can turn the tides then their defeat in the long run is imminent
Um, no offense but have you actually looked at the current battlefield projections? There is a lot of misinformation but it's fairly clear that:

a) Russia's offensive from the east got beaten back with zero gains.

b) At Kharkiv, they got stopped.

c) Moving towards Kyiv from Belarus, they got stopped. Their aerial offensive and paratrooper landings both failed.

d) The biggest success was from Crimea in the south but the Russian army got stopped at the river and that's mostly because Ukraine concentrated most of their forces at Odessa expecting an amphibious assault.

Air bases/air assets destroyed is nonsense propaganda. You can literally see videos of Ukrainian AA and planes fighting Russians, which should not be possible if Russian forces did indeed basically vaporize everything in sight.

You have a point about Russia's overwhelming numbers but considering this was supposed to be an unstoppable blitzkrieg by the Russian army, their failure to make overwhelming gains thus far is interesting, especially considering that Zelensky was in denial shit was going down until it actually went down.
 
M

Manomed

Guest
Um, no offense but have you actually looked at the current battlefield projections? There is a lot of misinformation but it's fairly clear that:

a) Russia's offensive from the east got beaten back with zero gains.

b) At Kharkiv, they got stopped.

c) Moving towards Kyiv from Belarus, they got stopped. Their aerial offensive and paratrooper landings both failed.

d) The biggest success was from Crimea in the south but the Russian army got stopped at the river and that's mostly because Ukraine concentrated most of their forces at Odessa expecting an amphibious assault.

Air bases/air assets destroyed is nonsense propaganda. You can literally see videos of Ukrainian AA and planes fighting Russians, which should not be possible if Russian forces did indeed basically vaporize everything in sight.

You have a point about Russia's overwhelming numbers but considering this was supposed to be an unstoppable blitzkrieg by the Russian army, their failure to make overwhelming gains thus far is interesting, especially considering that Zelensky was in denial shit was going down until it actually went down.
Russians are bıw targeting grain depots hospitals and civilians lol syria all over again
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,461
Reactions
5 18,068
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Um, no offense but have you actually looked at the current battlefield projections? There is a lot of misinformation but it's fairly clear that:

a) Russia's offensive from the east got beaten back with zero gains.

b) At Kharkiv, they got stopped.

c) Moving towards Kyiv from Belarus, they got stopped. Their aerial offensive and paratrooper landings both failed.

d) The biggest success was from Crimea in the south but the Russian army got stopped at the river and that's mostly because Ukraine concentrated most of their forces at Odessa expecting an amphibious assault.

Air bases/air assets destroyed is nonsense propaganda. You can literally see videos of Ukrainian AA and planes fighting Russians, which should not be possible if Russian forces did indeed basically vaporize everything in sight.

You have a point about Russia's overwhelming numbers but considering this was supposed to be an unstoppable blitzkrieg by the Russian army, their failure to make overwhelming gains thus far is interesting, especially considering that Zelensky was in denial shit was going down until it actually went down.

Thats the crazy thing is with the intensified attacks the Russians really thought the Ukrainians will surrender and go to the table.

But it seems the war is dragging on and the Ukrainians are fighting back but still the factors are still against them has Russia still has the firepower.
 

SaR

Committed member
Messages
200
Reactions
3 599
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Most profitable way to make use of S400s are EHTES. Air Forces would pay to train against the export version under EHTES infrastructure. Training deals could worth hundred millions and we can use it as a platform to show our munitions, EW. UAVs systems etc. to potential customers. Potential billions of defense exports.

Advances in Goktug, Hisar, Siper eliminated need for ready purchase long range anti aircraft systems and in addition technical, political shortages of S400s.

We need anti ballistic missile capability. Koreans now offers 2-3 systems for export. Which can be option while we are developing our own follow on to Siper. *Siper could potentially have limited ABM capability.
 

astragan

Active member
Messages
33
Reactions
1 120
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Most profitable way to make use of S400s are EHTES. Air Forces would pay to train against the export version under EHTES infrastructure. Training deals could worth hundred millions and we can use it as a platform to show our munitions, EW. UAVs systems etc. to potential customers. Potential billions of defense exports.

Advances in Goktug, Hisar, Siper eliminated need for ready purchase long range anti aircraft systems and in addition technical, political shortages of S400s.

We need anti ballistic missile capability. Koreans now offers 2-3 systems for export. Which can be option while we are developing our own follow on to Siper. *Siper could potentially have limited ABM capability.
We could (and I believe that we probably will) actually use the S400s to train our own anti-air systems as well. Firing missiles from an S400 and a completed Siper system towards a common target under exact same conditions would help us obtain very valuable information on how the S400's algorithms really work. We could then update our systems accordingly to act similarly, while maintaining our own original methods. That way we could create systems that would mimic Soviet systems, which could even give us the upper hand during times of war. I know that this would be an extreme stretch but, we could try and manipulate their systems so that their own air defence systems might mistaken our missiles with theirs.
 

SaR

Committed member
Messages
200
Reactions
3 599
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Most profitable way to make use of S400s are EHTES. Air Forces would pay to train against the export version under EHTES infrastructure. Training deals could worth hundred millions and we can use it as a platform to show our munitions, EW. UAVs systems etc. to potential customers. Potential billions of defense exports.

Advances in Goktug, Hisar, Siper eliminated need for ready purchase long range anti aircraft systems and in addition technical, political shortages of S400s.

We need anti ballistic missile capability. Koreans now offers 2-3 systems for export. Which can be option while we are developing our own follow on to Siper. *Siper could potentially have limited ABM capability.




Korean AD programs including variety of medium-long range missiles. Also including CRAM development
 
M

Manomed

Guest
1646054704995.png


Will there be a version of Hisar O+ like this?
 

SaR

Committed member
Messages
200
Reactions
3 599
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
View attachment 40340

Will there be a version of Hisar O+ like this?

Hisar A serial production cancelled in favor of Hisar O. But Hisar O is not suitable for ACV platform.

Sungur and Sungur+ will be vehicle based.

Sungur+ on ACV likely would be similar to Crotale NG like configuration.

They could use Goktug NASAMS for vehicle based AD


I wonder how Ukrainian conflict will change the approach to vehicle based tactical ADs?
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,161
Reactions
21 18,782
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
It would likely depend on how succesful the AD systems tested are. I still think an ACV with Sugur and 12,7mm/‘50 cal could be good as a mobile short range AD system.
 
M

Manomed

Guest
It would likely depend on how succesful the AD systems tested are. I still think an ACV with Sugur and 12,7mm/‘50 cal could be good as a mobile short range AD system.
I heard our tank killers could use sunger?
 

Abdelaziz

Contributor
Messages
491
Reactions
1 821
Nation of residence
England(UK)
Nation of origin
Lebanon
Hisar A serial production cancelled in favor of Hisar O. But Hisar O is not suitable for ACV platform.

Sungur and Sungur+ will be vehicle based.

Sungur+ on ACV likely would be similar to Crotale NG like configuration.

They could use Goktug NASAMS for vehicle based AD


I wonder how Ukrainian conflict will change the approach to vehicle based tactical ADs?
Turkey needs autonomous movable SAM .. sungur is not sufficient .. pantsir like system is very important
 

Hexciter

Experienced member
Messages
2,575
Reactions
4 11,447
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

HİSAR-RF SGTM Firing Test and the Differences Between the SİPER B1 Missile HİSAR-RF SGTM Firing Test and the Differences Between the SİPER B1 Missile

On February 19, 2022, President of Defence Industries (SSB) İsmail DEMİR announced on his social media account that the HİSAR-O+ System successfully destroyed a target in the first firing test carried out with the RF (Radio Frequency) Seeker model. DEMİR said, "We added a new capability to our air defence structure. While the serial production continues, we will continue to work on new capabilities at full speed.".

February 28, 2022
By İbrahim SÜNNETÇİ & Saffet UYANIK
7f967cc6-aab4-4e83-b035-855b1169cbc9.jpg

The development of the HİSAR Missile Family's new member, HİSAR-RF, still continues, and under the project, 2 different HİSAR-RF Controlled Test Missiles (CTM) were fired in July 2021. Since the Seeker Guided Test Missile (SGTM, IIR/RF Seeker enabled but no warhead) was used in the last firing test, which was reported to the press, I believe that the Guided Test Missile (GTM, dual pulse rocket motor and TVC capability) was also fired before this test as part of the HİSAR Project.
a2496344-5675-4c0b-9fc1-5524ea65a9d0.jpg

The HİSAR-RF Missile, whose clear image was shared for the first time in the short video of the firing test shared by the SSB, scored a direct hit on the jet-powered Banshee Jet 80+ High-Speed Aerial Target Drone (simulating the hostile air target) from the rear right side (hit-to-kill, an important detail to show the accuracy of the Active RF Seeker). It was clearly seen that the right wing and tail of the Banshee Target Drone were severed after the hit, and it started to lose altitude uncontrollably.
Ads%C4%B1z(1).jpg

The firing test and qualification process of the HİSAR-O+ Missile System's RF Seeker version (HİSAR-RF) is planned to be completed by the end of 2022, and the first delivery will be made. Thus, the HİSAR-O+ System will have the ability to launch both the HİSAR-O+ and the HİSAR-RF Missiles by the end of 2022.
H%C4%B0SAR-O%20RF_2(1).jpg

Differences Between HİSAR Family and SİPER Block-I Missile
In our previous reports, we pointed out that the HİSAR-RF Missile, although based on the HİSAR-O+, has a different body and fin design. After the short video of the firing test shared by the SSB, it has become certain that HİSAR-RF resembles the SİPER Blok-I Missile's external design rather than HİSAR-O+. Under the SİPER National Long-Range Air Defence Missile System Project (formerly HİSAR-U), which is expected to enter service in 2023, the first controlled fire test with the Controlled Test Missile (CTM, with auto-pilot control but without the seeker and the Thrust Vector Control-TVC system in the tail section) was carried out from the Sinop Missile Test Range towards the Black Sea on 5 November 2021.
35ddc56c-7683-48d8-96c2-4467b888044c(1).jpg

Featuring a longer body due to extended range requirements compared to the existing HİSAR missiles, SİPER Block-I has high G-tolerance and maneuvering capability, a Dual-Pulse motor, and the same RF Seeker used in HİSAR-RF. In the short video of the firing test shared on November 6, the SİPER Block-I was equipped with a booster similar to the one used on the ATMACA Anti-Ship Missile. There are also a number of differences between the HİSAR-RF Missile, which was previously tested without a seeker, and the SİPER Block-I CTM. It features a different control surface and tail fin design.
H%C4%B0SAR-O%20RF_4(1).jpg

Speaking at the "4th Traditional Lagari Aviation and Defence Days" event held on May 7, 2021, ROKETSAN Business Development Manager Murat SİLAV stated that the length of the HİSAR-A Missile is 3.8m, and the HİSAR-O Missile is 4.2m. The HİSAR-O+ canister displayed at the ROKETSAN booth at IDEF '21 Fair was 550mm in width, 4.770mm in length (120mm longer compared to HİSAR-O), and 685mm in height (45mm higher compared to HİSAR-O). The full weight of the HİSAR-O+ canister, with a total volume of 1.8m3, was given as 595 ±10kg. I have also learned that the HİSAR-RF Missile has the same dimensions as the HİSAR-O+.
b163cf51-b89e-4739-aff8-e86fdaf5f7da.jpg

HİSAR-O+ and HİSAR-O Canisters
In the light of this information, it can be said that there is a slight increase in the length, height, and weight of the HİSAR-O+ Missile compared to the HİSAR-O. Since the length of the HİSAR-O Missile with a canister length of 4,650mm is given as 4.2m, I believe the total length of the HİSAR-O+ Missile with a canister length of 4,770mm is approximately 4.31m. As I wrote above, based on the information that the HİSAR-RF Missile is the same size as the HİSAR-O+, as stated by the sources close to the project, my estimation of the total length for both missiles are approximately 4.31m.
S%C4%B0PER_1.jpg

Resembling the HİSAR-RF Missile in appearance, the SİPER Block-I Missile has a longer body and features a booster similar to the one used in the ATMACA Missile. According to ROKETSAN data, the ATMACA booster is 90cm long (total length of ATMACA Missile is given as 5.2m with the booster and 4.3m without the booster in ROKETSAN Product Catalogue).
F%C3%BCzeler-2(1).jpg

Based on our study using the SIPER Block-I images, the missile's length is approximately 4.7m. Together with the booster, we estimate the total length of the SİPER Block-I Missile is around 5.7m. Considering these dimensions, both the HİSAR Family and the SİPER Block-I Missile will be launched from the National Vertical Launching System (MİDLAS), which was first announced to be used on the TCG Istanbul Frigate, and first firing tests will be carried out this year. It was stated that MİDLAS would be 30 cm longer than the Mk-41 Vertical Launching System (VLS) Tactical-length module (6.7m long), which is currently in service with the Turkish Navy.
c343ce67-4603-4597-9b63-f27ee8d01ff6.jpg

 
Last edited:

Cypro

Contributor
Messages
662
Reactions
2 1,790
Nation of residence
Northern Cyprus
Nation of origin
Northern Cyprus
Can't we Integrate sungur into Korkut? Or will there going to be a movable Hisar O?
I have read somewhere that it was pre-planned when Korkut was designed, if it is viable we will see it as an upgrade or in newer versions. Initially, it was designed to include Stinger or Igla-S launcher like Zıpkın but up to now, we didn't see that if I am correct. Maybe it is not useful as it can engage may targets
 

SaR

Committed member
Messages
200
Reactions
3 599
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I have read somewhere that it was pre-planned when Korkut was designed, if it is viable we will see it as an upgrade or in newer versions. Initially, it was designed to include Stinger or Igla-S launcher like Zıpkın but up to now, we didn't see that if I am correct. Maybe it is not useful as it can engage may targets

According to Mr. Sunnetci, Sungur is planned to be integrated along with Korkut.

Variant of Sungur, Sungur+ is in development for vehicles.
Also Levent Block 1 RIM along with RF seeker Block 2 for the Navy.
Gokdeniz-ER is in development by Aselsan and Tubitak SAGE.

All are canister and technically can be launched from land based mobile platform.

Aselsan also developing small AESA radars. Can be mounted on vehicles small as 4x4s.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom