TR Air Defence Programs

[Ravager]

lol

Nobdoy is going to use SIPER missiles against cheap shit drones, only dumb people will use it. We will use SPAAG systems like Korkut, or other airburst rounds.

For stationairy defence.

In ideal world your wish might be happened. . but wars is always about perception , diversion and deceipt ... Not too mention in today fulll EW spectrum warfares . Who are to say .... That our future adversary couldn't masking their cheap ass home grown rockets that could look and read/treated as ballistic missile just to depletes and bankrupt us before hitting with their true hammers. ...??
Well , i'm just a layman .... Nothing i write here have some basis of techincal realities . So , take this as simple kind warning or a passing joke ....


Salam ....

 

[what]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676204573172662272

Firing 600k missiles at a 50k drone is insane.
I hope that our own products will be cost-effective.

 

[Afif]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676204573172662272

Firing 600k missiles at a 50k drone is insane.
I hope that our own products will be cost-effective.

When it comes to missile, it won't. (Even though Turkish missiles are cost effective compared to Werstern ones)

However, cold war era concept of AAA gun once again making a comeback (and rightfully so) due to the proliferation of cheap and easily mass produced kamikaze drones.


Aselsan Korkut

Oerlikon Skynex

In a nutshell, this is how armies around the world are planning to fight against cheap kamikaze drones.

But also, these system has dual use.
For example, nowadays artillery and mortars are becoming incredibly accurate due to implementation precision guidance kit and automatic fire control system.
(And we all saw how heavy armor and mechanized vehicle has been hammered by accurate artillery fire on both sides in Russia-Ukraine conflict)

And These highly responsive automated AAA guns could potentially shoot down mortars and artillery rounds in a cost effective manner.

 

[Huelague]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676204573172662272

Firing 600k missiles at a 50k drone is insane.
I hope that our own products will be cost-effective.

What’s the damage cost of a 50k drone?

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Any news about korkut SAM project , is ot finished ? Have gone so many years and 2022 was the year as far as i know ?
120 korkuts or 40 systems i think they said to produce + other fixed systems 35mm .
Any change ?

 

[Oublious]

Any news about korkut SAM project , is ot finished ? Have gone so many years and 2022 was the year as far as i know ?
120 korkuts or 40 systems i think they said to produce + other fixed systems 35mm .
Any change ?

Korkut is exported to several countries....

 

[Heartbang]

Korkut is exported to several countries....

Are you sure?

 

[AzeriTank]

Siper is only for to shoot down jets before releasing the bombs or high flying bombers, or some ballistic missiles

 

[Yasar_TR]

Siper is only for to shoot down jets before releasing the bombs or high flying bombers, or some ballistic missiles

Not quite just that. Siper will hit any flying object within its range and altitude envelope. These will include supersonic and subsonic jets and missiles. Provided our radars can identify and target a ballistic missile it will hit it. Both Hisar and Siper use dual pulse rocket engines that have superior terminal phase kinematics. These missiles fly in excess of 4 Mach speeds.
quote:
Siper is a long-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) air defense system designed to defend against any type of airborne threat: aircraft, cruise missiles, air-to-ground missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). It was jointly developed in Türkiye by the companies Roketsan, Aselsan and the research institute Tübitak Sage.
unquote.
Siper is still in development stage. The final programmed block Siper missile system will have a range in excess of 150km and will be able to hit SRBMs and MRBMs.

Turkish Siper air defense system succeeds in final firing test | Defense News May 2023 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2023 | Archive News year

Turkish Siper air defense system succeeds in final firing test

www.armyrecognition.com

Remember there are stand off weapons like SOM and SCALP that are released 300km away from their targets. So the AD system can not hit these aircrafts. But it will target to hit what they have released when they are in range.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

I know its expensive but Siper should ve tested with real modern cruise missile like SOM .

 

[uçuyorum]

I know its expensive but Siper should ve tested with real modern cruise missile like SOM .

And tayfun, I hope. But i think Siper may not have enough maneuverability against ballistic missiles without pif paf system.

 

[Afif]

And tayfun, I hope. But i think Siper may not have enough maneuverability against ballistic missiles without pif paf system.

Tbh, Pif paf is not a necessity against Tactical balistic missiles.

(However, against MRBM (2000km) it seems to be a necessity due to their much higher speed compared to TBMs. For example, a MRBM flies at mach 10/12 or above. So, with only conventional surface control system it is very very hard for an interceptor to perform hit to kill interception against it. Also, due to its high hypersonic speed interceptor's warhead won't be able to do much in close proximity blast, so Hit to kill interception capability against MRBM becomes a necessity. However, when it comes TBMs, its speed is not that higher than the interceptor itself. And interceptor's warhead blast in close proximity will destroy the TBMs.)

Here, BARAK-8 ER performing a TBM interception with exceptional accuracy (for a missile that doesn't have altitude control thrusters)

I definitely think SIPER block ii would be able to do the same even when it doesn't have PIF-PAF.

 

[Yasar_TR]

PIF/PAF (Pilotage enforce/Pilotage aerodynamique fort, inertial steering by force/aerodynamic steering by force)
This is a great tool to steer an AD missile against highly manoeuvrable missiles and targets.
But as per @Afif has said it is not a must. Aster missiles have this and they destroy their targets by hit to kill. ESSM can destroy supersonic and subsonic high manoeuvrable missiles without PIF-PAF. Barak-8 doesn’t have PIF-PAF but can destroy a manoeuvring Iskander missile with success.

 

[Bürküt]

Tbh, Pif paf is not a necessity against Tactical balistic missiles. (However, against SRBM (1000km) and MRBM (2000km) it seems to be a necessity due to their much higher speed compared to TBMs)

Here, BARAK-8 ER performing a TBM interception with exceptional accuracy (for a missile that doesn't have altitude control thrusters)

I definitely think SIPER block ii would be able to do the same even when it doesn't have PIF-PAF.

As far as I know, Siper has thrust vector control . Isn't it not enough for the threats up to MRBM?

 

[GoatsMilk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676204573172662272

Firing 600k missiles at a 50k drone is insane.
I hope that our own products will be cost-effective.

naturally though its not a unilateral problem. Against a normal army iran would also have to defend against cost effective suicide drones. And in that situation the nation whose air defence can protect critical infrastructure wins the war.

 

[Afif]

As far as I know, Siper has thrust vector control . Isn't it not enough for the threats up to MRBM?

Hisar A/O has TVC. However, Hisar RF/SIPER block I doesn’t seem to have TVC.

But more importantly, TVC and altitude control motors/thrusters are two different things.

That is what called Altitude control motors/thrusters

Altitude control motors of Aster family.

Altitude control motors of MIM-104 PAC-3.

And that is what we generally know as TVC.

Here you can see Bozdogan and Hisar A/O also uses the same principle for its TVC.

Hisar 3d model from Roketsan's website.

Ironically, Aster family has both TVC (in its booster) and altitude control motors (in its 'Dart')

 

[Yasar_TR]

Hisar A/O has TVC. However, Hisar RF/SIPER block I doesn’t seem to have TVC

Siper is the booster added version of Hisar O+ missile.

There are actuators on those fins. So they have aerodynamic thrust control. That is the PAF portion.
What Siper seems to be lacking according to given statements is the PIF portion. That is the inertial powered thrust vectoring portion. But there is nothing stopping for that to be added at later versions or blocks.

 

[UkroTurk]

The cheapest way to stop Shahid is SUNGUR loaded Launcher with E/O scanner.

 

[Oublious]

Are you sure?

 

[AzeriTank]

lol

Nobdoy is going to use SIPER missiles against cheap shit drones, only dumb people will use it. We will use SPAAG systems like Korkut, or other airburst rounds.

For stationairy defence.

Not even an option, thats where you need the networked air deffence which Turkey started to sell to Idnonesian navy with advent