TR Air Defence Programs

[Kaan Azman]

Mete has 1m CEP.Unfortunately the long shape and weight of the Missile is vulnerable from side winds . Keeping the missile on the moving targets hard. Moreover Mete has minimum range 360 meter.
View attachment 70348
So using several 40mm grenade ammunition is more effective while you can not control and set timefuse after launch.

But LOBL with an IR seeker can change things I think. I just think that we should elongate the missile for longer rocket motor and develop a 40 mm diameter IR seeker (not imaging). Another possibility is developing a semi active radar guided version for C-UAS.

 

[UkroTurk]

But LOBL with an IR seeker can change things I think. I just think that we should elongate the missile for longer rocket motor and develop a 40 mm diameter IR seeker (not imaging). Another possibility is developing a semi active radar guided version for C-UAS.

I gotch u,you mean mini Stinger but ATOM 40mm hunts cheap quadrocopters which are massively in the battlefield. Although ATOM40 is really very smart and unique solution , system is not compact.

There is just one rival of ATOM40 :
XM25 CDTE

XM25 CDTE - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[No Name]

I gotch u,you mean mini Stinger but ATOM 40mm hunts cheap quadrocopters which are massively in the battlefield. Although ATOM40 is really very smart and unique solution , system is not compact.

There is just one rival of ATOM40 :
XM25 CDTE
View attachment 70445

XM25 CDTE - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Wasn't the XM-25 decommissioned due to it being a war crime to use?

 

[boredaf]

Wasn't the XM-25 decommissioned due to it being a war crime to use?

That's a myth (a stupid one at that), it is not a "war crime" to use a grenade launcher, 40 mm grenades can also burst in air. It was cancelled because it was heavy and unreliable, nothing more.

 

[UkroTurk]

XM 25 hits directly because has more velocity. 40mm very slow .

There is no 40mm smart rifle.
XM 25 is unique.

 

[boredaf]

XM 25 hits directly because has more velocity. 40mm very slow .

There is no 40mm smart rifle.
XM 25 is unique.

And useless. It was too heavy and required a soldier to forgo their basic rifle and only had like 40 bullets which is nothing if you have to fight in close range. There is a reason it was cancelled after millions of dollars were wasted.

Edit: Also, I just checked and ATOM has higher muzzle velocity than XM25.

 

[UkroTurk]

Hey Dear Authorities show us please surface to air missiles, VLS etc. For instance i would love to see SIPER B2, Hisar-N. The topic looks boring.

Why they haven't loaded Göksur on some ships?

Where is the naval variant of GÜRZ? Will we see naval Gürz?

 

[Kartal1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1833576545203679452

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1833576545203679452

So like small satellites that can be detatched and used at certain distances from the truck. Reminds me of pickup truck mounted AA guns , but more durable ? And less mobile...

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1833576545203679452

For what reason though? You either need a mobile unit to travel with your armoured divisions etc, or, you need a stationary unit to defend a base or another point which is then put there anyway, with added benefit of other aa systems to compliment it if necessary. What would be different/more beneficial about this?

 

[Kartal1]

For what reason though? You either need a mobile unit to travel with your armoured divisions etc, or, you need a stationary unit to defend a base or another point which is then put there anyway, with added benefit of other aa systems to compliment it if necessary. What would be different/more beneficial about this?

This is more of a drone counter-measure for temporary bases if you ask me.

We know that Aselsan IHTAR and 40mm SAHIN for example can be transported by a vehicle pulling them as they are made like trailers. There's also a static configuration for GOKER.

I think it may be beneficial for temporary base area deployment if it is made modular based on a DROPS trailer. You can configure the platform according to the needs and transport it in a static configuration with the help of a DROPS truck. Or if there's emergency need you can use it on the truck dependingon on the configuration of the DROPS module.

Of course this is my wishful thinking in order to ease the transportation and increase the modularity and versatility of such a DROPS trailer, but it may even not be relevant for TSK at this moment. In order for my concept to work and to have any meaning the whole logistics system in TSK should be overhauled, based on a familiar DROPS platform and our DROPS inventory is still very small. I think it is time to upgrade our logistic vehicle inventory.

 

[Afif]

Aselsan/Roketsan need to address the C-RAM with a low cost interceptor like Tamir and MHTK. It's a major challenge for ground formations. As seen with HIMARS rampage in Uk.

 

[boredaf]

I think it may be beneficial for temporary base area deployment if it is made modular based on a DROPS trailer. You can configure the platform according to the needs and transport it in a static configuration with the help of a DROPS truck. Or if there's emergency need you can use it on the truck dependingon on the configuration of the DROPS module.

A modular structure that you can configure according to needs of a temporary base could work, but, so could a Gürz, for example, embedded in the group that is operating out of that base. Of course, this could be more cost efficient without risking a more expensive system. Maybe a configuration with focus on FPV drones and low flying threats. Like Şahin + some jammers + directed energy weapons with the addition of Göker, for example. But I'm still not sure whether it would be worth the extra effort to make it droppable from the truck bed, instead of just using it from the truck.

think it is time to upgrade our logistic vehicle inventory.

I couldn't agree more with this mate, and not just for our land forces but for all of our military forces in general.

Aselsan/Roketsan need to address the C-RAM with a low cost interceptor like Tamir and MHTK.

I still believe a modified Mete, probably bit bigger like MHTK which is like 20-30 cm bigger and a bit heavier than Mete, would be the best solution for us. Obviously it would need to be upgraded accordingly but it is small and cheap enough that it could be deployed in numbers and easily attached to any necessary system.

 

[Kartal1]

A modular structure that you can configure according to needs of a temporary base could work, but, so could a Gürz, for example, embedded in the group that is operating out of that base. Of course, this could be more cost efficient without risking a more expensive system. Maybe a configuration with focus on FPV drones and low flying threats. Like Şahin + some jammers + directed energy weapons with the addition of Göker, for example. But I'm still not sure whether it would be worth the extra effort to make it droppable from the truck bed, instead of just using it from the truck.

I couldn't agree more with this mate, and not just for our land forces but for all of our military forces in general.


I still believe a modified Mete, probably bit bigger like MHTK which is like 20-30 cm bigger and a bit heavier than Mete, would be the best solution for us. Obviously it would need to be upgraded accordingly but it is small and cheap enough that it could be deployed in numbers and easily attached to any necessary system.

Sure, I think of Gurz as fully mobile and upper tier.

What I really like is the implementation of a DROPS truck in this. We know that trucks and logistics vehicles are expendables and are manufactured in high numbers. I like the idea that if we established our DROPS fleet as I dream we will be able to use our trucks more efficiently as the configuration will be made in such a way that any compatible DROPS truck can transport the system.

If we manage to implement such an integrated and modular logistics approach trough DROPS, I think we may see even further implementation of not only air defense related configured "pallet/platform", but other systems depending on the need. EW, sensors, artillery, direct fire support cannon configurations etc.

Other static or low mobile system packages/modules can be configured for usage with the DROPS and after deployed even another unit with the same DROPS trucks can take care of the transport of it. The truck after dropping the payload may be utilized for other tasks within the unit.

What I really think of is the implementation of interoperable, integrated logistics and transportation systems utilizing the same truck chassis and compatible attachments so we can attach different systems on every compatible truck in our armed forces inventory.

I might have gone a bit off topic with this message for which I apologize.

 

[TheInsider]

Aselsan/Roketsan need to address the C-RAM with a low cost interceptor like Tamir and MHTK. It's a major challenge for ground formations. As seen with HIMARS rampage in Uk.

A Tamir-like missile project is in progress, and Aselsan will deliver its guidance section ( Aselsan cost-effective seeker head project/semi-active RF) in 2026. From what I heard the target is to have a similar performance at half the price of the Tamir missile. Roketsan is also working on a cost-effective thrust vector control system for the missile. This project is taken seriously and considered a difficult project because the missile should have good performance and should be as cheap as possible.

 

[Sanchez]

Sure, I think of Gurz as fully mobile and upper tier.

What I really like is the implementation of a DROPS truck in this. We know that trucks and logistics vehicles are expendables and are manufactured in high numbers. I like the idea that if we established our DROPS fleet as I dream we will be able to use our trucks more efficiently as the configuration will be made in such a way that any compatible DROPS truck can transport the system.

If we manage to implement such an integrated and modular logistics approach trough DROPS, I think we may see even further implementation of not only air defense related configured "pallet/platform", but other systems depending on the need. EW, sensors, artillery, direct fire support cannon configurations etc.

Other static or low mobile system packages/modules can be configured for usage with the DROPS and after deployed even another unit with the same DROPS trucks can take care of the transport of it. The truck after dropping the payload may be utilized for other tasks within the unit.

What I really think of is the implementation of interoperable, integrated logistics and transportation systems utilizing the same truck chassis and compatible attachments so we can attach different systems on every compatible truck in our armed forces inventory.

I might have gone a bit off topic with this message for which I apologize.

Old MAN and BMCs have still at least a decade in them. Once people start talking, we should see other builders offer DROPS versions as well, other than Koluman. If we do, that means DROPS type vehicles will be an important part of the next generation logistical vehicle program. Also hope that they do.

 

[boredaf]

"16 Sample interception rates for commonly used Russian missiles in 2024: 50% for the older Kalibr subsonic cruise missiles, 22% for modern subsonic cruise missiles (e.g. Kh-69), 4% for modern ballistic missiles (e.g. Iskander-M), 0.6% for S-300/400 supersonic long-range SAM, and 0.55% for the Kh-22 supersonic anti-ship missile. Data on interception rates of hypersonic missiles is scarce: Ukraine claims a 25% interception rate for hypersonic Kinzhal and Zircon missiles, but Ukrainian sources also indicate such interceptions require salvo firing all 32 launchers in a US-style Patriot battery to have any chance to shoot down a single hypersonic missile"

If they really have to fire 32 launchers to stop a single hypersonic missile that is an insane amount of missiles and money spent just to stop 1 missile.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/Dateiverwaltung/IfW-Publications/fis-import/1f9c7f5f-15d2-45c4-8b85-9bb550cd449d-Kiel_Report_no1.pdf

25th page of this report, which is really interesting in general.

 

[YeşilVatan]

"16 Sample interception rates for commonly used Russian missiles in 2024: 50% for the older Kalibr subsonic cruise missiles, 22% for modern subsonic cruise missiles (e.g. Kh-69), 4% for modern ballistic missiles (e.g. Iskander-M), 0.6% for S-300/400 supersonic long-range SAM, and 0.55% for the Kh-22 supersonic anti-ship missile. Data on interception rates of hypersonic missiles is scarce: Ukraine claims a 25% interception rate for hypersonic Kinzhal and Zircon missiles, but Ukrainian sources also indicate such interceptions require salvo firing all 32 launchers in a US-style Patriot battery to have any chance to shoot down a single hypersonic missile"

If they really have to fire 32 launchers to stop a single hypersonic missile that is an insane amount of missiles and money spent just to stop 1 missile.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/Dateiverwaltung/IfW-Publications/fis-import/1f9c7f5f-15d2-45c4-8b85-9bb550cd449d-Kiel_Report_no1.pdf

25th page of this report, which is really interesting in general.

Conclusion: strike first and hit hard or dig deep and hide well.

 

[Afif]

If they really have to fire 32 launchers to stop a single hypersonic missile that is an insane amount of missiles and money spent just to stop 1 missile.

I say, nonsense.

 

[boredaf]

I say, nonsense.

I don't know, Kiel isn't known for peddling nonsense mate.