TR Air Defence Programs

[Afif]

I don't know, Kiel isn't known for peddling nonsense mate.

*Ukraine has 3x patriot batteries operational at the time when we read about Kinzal and Zircon interception.

*And these 3d batteries are NOT deployed at th same place with overlapping coverage. 2x batteries in Kiev. And third one is somewhere else/mostly Kharkiv.

*Two patriot battery has two AN/MPQ-53 radars. And Each can guide 18 interceptors at 9 targets. That means maximum 36x interceptots at once.

*Assuming the interceptor is PAC-2, launching all 32 launchers means guiding 128x missiles toward 1 target. Not only practically absurd but technically impossible.

*That's me being generous. Because usually it is a mix of PAC-2 and PAC-3. In that case, numbers of launched interceptors are twice or more. The whole proposition then becomes even bigger nonsense.

 

[uçuyorum]

*Ukraine has 3x patriot batteries operational at the time when we read about Kinzal and Zircon interception.

*And these 3d batteries are NOT deployed at th same place with overlapping coverage. 2x batteries in Kiev. And third one is somewhere else/mostly Kharkiv.

*Two patriot battery has two AN/MPQ-53 radars. And Each can guide 18 interceptors at 9 targets. That means maximum 36x interceptots at once.

*Assuming the interceptor is PAC-2, launching all 32 launchers means guiding 128x missiles toward 1 target. Not only practically absurd but technically impossible.

*That's me being generous. Because usually it is a mix of PAC-3 and PAC-3. In that case, numbers of launched interceptors are twice or more. The whole proposition then becomes even bigger nonsense.

Maybe its mathematically saying " to reach reliable interception rate of hypersonics you would need that many missiles which is not possible "

 

[Afif]

Maybe its mathematically saying " to reach reliable interception rate of hypersonics you would need that many missiles which is not possible "

I don't think this is a correct explanation.

 

[boredaf]

*Ukraine has 3x patriot batteries operational at the time when we read about Kinzal and Zircon interception.

*And these 3d batteries are NOT deployed at th same place with overlapping coverage. 2x batteries in Kiev. And third one is somewhere else/mostly Kharkiv.

*Two patriot battery has two AN/MPQ-53 radars. And Each can guide 18 interceptors at 9 targets. That means maximum 36x interceptots at once.

*Assuming the interceptor is PAC-2, launching all 32 launchers means guiding 128x missiles toward 1 target. Not only practically absurd but technically impossible.

*That's me being generous. Because usually it is a mix of PAC-3 and PAC-3. In that case, numbers of launched interceptors are twice or more. The whole proposition then becomes even bigger nonsense.

Mate, you're making assumptions, Kiel is quoting Ukrainian sources. You can call it nonsense if you want but Kiel is very trustworthy and they wouldn't something like that in an article they publish without having proper sources. But, you do you.

 

[Afif]

Mate, you're making assumptions, Kiel is quoting Ukrainian sources. You can call it nonsense if you want but Kiel is very trustworthy and they wouldn't something like that in an article they publish without having proper sources. But, you do you.

Those are facts. There are technical limitations of launching all interceptors from 32x launchers at once and guiding them.

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Kartal1]

The Land Forces Command has completed the inspection and acceptance activities of various Low Altitude Air Defense (Korkut) Command Control and Weapon System vehicles.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1834168837056438580

 

[Strong AI]

Roketsan General Manager Murat İkinci:

"One of the main issues Roketsan focuses on is drone attacks. We are investing in enhancing ALKA to higher levels of power and also transforming it into a system where multiple ALKAs can operate together as a central hub. This will make it one of the backbone systems of our air defense systems, particularly to counter potential threats from small drones in the future."

Son testler de tamam! İşte Çelik Kubbe'nin son üyesi! - Resim 1

Dünyanın en gelişmiş savunma sistemlerinden birini üretme yolunda ilerleyen Türkiye, Çelik Kubbe'ye yeni bir üye eklemek üzere...... - Sayfa 1

www.haber7.com

EDIT:

https://www.roketsan.com.tr/products/alka-new-network-enabled-weapon

 

[Strong AI]

SIPER Block-2

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1835372432275763589

 

[somegoodusername]

What was the estimated range of Siper Block-2?

 

[Oublious]

What is the speed of that missile woowww , the acceleration is mind blowing...

 

[Huelague]

What was the estimated range of Siper Block-2?

…and altitude, of course.

 

[Afif]

SIPER Block-2

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1835372432275763589

I will be waiting for the booster version. (With an effective range of 200km)

 

[Afif]

Successful shot from SİPER Product-2: Long arm of Steel Dome​

The second firing test of the SİPER Product-2 Long Range Air Defense Missile was successfully completed. The 'long arm' of the Steel Dome Integrated Air and Missile Defense System will be SİPER Product-2.

The firing activities were carried out at the Sinop Test Center on September 12, 2024. As a result of the test activity attended by the Presidency of Defense Industries and the Turkish Armed Forces, the Fire Control Center, Data Link and Missile Launch System capabilities were tested using the SİPER Product-2 Missile.

Making an assessment on the subject, Defense Industries President Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün noted the following in his statement:

“ With the long-range and high -altitude deterrent power of the Steel Dome , the SİPER Project , we aim to provide Long-Range and Distributed Architecture Air Defense against enemy attacks at Strategic Facilities within the scope of Regional Air Defense . The SİPER System will be able to engage air -breathing targets such as fighter jets and cruise missiles and air-to-ground munitions , and in the later stages, work will also be carried out to gain engagement capability against ballistic missiles .

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1835373042525999168

We will use the data collected within the scope of the Firing Test in the development work of the project . I heartily congratulate our ASELSAN-ROKETSAN-TÜBİTAK SAGE companies and their personnel who took part in the project , and I hope that the firing test will bring goodness to our homeland and our country's defense . "

SİPER will enter the inventory this year​

Within the scope of the Long Range Regional Air and Missile Defense System Project Phase-C (SİPER) contract signed between the Presidency of Defense Industries and the ASELSAN-ROKETSAN-TÜBİTAK SAGE business partnership on January 15, 2018 , Turkey's first national long-range air defense system is being developed.

The first SİPER system is aimed to be added to the Turkish Armed Forces inventory by the end of this year with the 100-kilometer range SİPER Product-1 Missile. The SİPER Product-1 Missile will be followed by the 150-kilometer range SİPER Product-2 Missile.

---

SİPER Ürün-2’den başarılı atış: Çelik Kubbe’nin uzun kolu | SavunmaSanayiST

SİPER Ürün-2 hava savunma füzesinin ikinci atış testi, başarıyla tamamlandı. Çelik Kubbe Hava ve Füze Savunma Sistemi'nin 'uzun kolu', SİPER Ürün-2 olacak.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[UkroTurk]

Not a slim missile. Chubby. I doubt if it was doublepacked.

 

[Huelague]

When can we expect satellite killer missile?

 

[Sanchez]

Hisar O+'s radar seeker is AGRAS-100SA(Surface Air?), Siper Ürün-1 uses the 110, while Hisar-D's is dubbed the 150. 150km ranger Siper Ürün/Product 2 will have the AGRAS-400SA.
Still not clear what Sapan will exactly be.

"A variant of the missiles used in the Hisar O+ system is the HİSAR O+ missile with RF Seeker Head (AGRAS-100SA)."

"With the experience gained in HİSAR O+ RF, the first output of the SİPER Long Range Regional Air Defense System development process, the SİPER Product-1 missile, was first introduced. The SİPER Product-1 missile, which uses the ASELSAN Radar Seeker Head (AGRAS-110SA), is currently being prepared to enter the inventory."

"Firing tests have begun with the HİSAR-D missile using ASELSAN Radar Seeker Heads (AGRAS-150SA)."

"Within the scope of the near-term needs of the Naval Forces Command, the studies to increase the capability of Radar Seeker Heads for air defense missiles to be used in the SAPAN Project continue with AGRAS-200SA and AGRAS-500SA. The Radar Seeker Head (AGRAS-400SA) is being developed for the SİPER Product-2 missile developed within the scope of the Long Range Regional Air Defense System SİPER, which constitutes the top layer of the ongoing air defense system projects."

https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/aselsan_dergi_120_092024.pdf

 

[Oublious]

Steel Dome...

 

[Anmdt]

Hisar O+'s radar seeker is AGRAS-100SA(Surface Air?), Siper Ürün-1 uses the 110, while Hisar-D's is dubbed the 150. 150km ranger Siper Ürün/Product 2 will have the AGRAS-400SA.
Still not clear what Sapan will exactly be.

"A variant of the missiles used in the Hisar O+ system is the HİSAR O+ missile with RF Seeker Head (AGRAS-100SA)."

"With the experience gained in HİSAR O+ RF, the first output of the SİPER Long Range Regional Air Defense System development process, the SİPER Product-1 missile, was first introduced. The SİPER Product-1 missile, which uses the ASELSAN Radar Seeker Head (AGRAS-110SA), is currently being prepared to enter the inventory."

"Firing tests have begun with the HİSAR-D missile using ASELSAN Radar Seeker Heads (AGRAS-150SA)."

"Within the scope of the near-term needs of the Naval Forces Command, the studies to increase the capability of Radar Seeker Heads for air defense missiles to be used in the SAPAN Project continue with AGRAS-200SA and AGRAS-500SA. The Radar Seeker Head (AGRAS-400SA) is being developed for the SİPER Product-2 missile developed within the scope of the Long Range Regional Air Defense System SİPER, which constitutes the top layer of the ongoing air defense system projects."

https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/aselsan_dergi_120_092024.pdf

From there as i see it (speculating);

AGRAS-200SA is Hisar-D2 / Sapan-1
AGRAS-500SA is Siper-B2D / Sapan-2

Those are only two missiles made from scratch for navy, or with navy's involvement, since the beginning. Thus it makes sense for two of these to be accounted as part of the Sapan air defence system, unlike other two (Hisar-D/ ex Hisar-O RF, Siper-B1D, ex Hisar-U / Siper-B1) adopted from land based systems.

As i noticed Aselsan's taxonomy indicates a new product by 3rd digit and increments on the 2nd digit indicates improvement, adoption, modification for alternative uses.

But SSB cancels me here;

HİSAR-O-RF füzesinin MİLGEM gemilerine entegrasyonu için faaliyetler yürütülmektedir. Bununla birlikte,
Başkanlığımızca yürütülmekte olan Satıhtan Havaya Millî Güdümlü Mermi ve Sistemi Tedariki (SAPAN)
Projesi kapsamında Siper Blok-1 füzesinin MİLGEM’e entegrasyonuna, ve Milli Dikey Atım Sistemi (MİDLAS)
ile entegre dörtlü kanister geliştirilmesine yönelik faaliyetler yürütülmektedir

They refer to SAPAN as an acquisition program for surface to air missiles and related systems. We might be dealing with two Sapan projects named similarly and referring to different products.

Or AGRAS-200SA is a seeker that quadpacked Hisar-DB2 and Siper-B1D will use in common. Or Navy's Siper-B1 will be ER variant of Hisar-DB2 in other words.

Such a puzzle to solve.

 

[UkroTurk]

AGRAS-200SA is Hisar-D2 / Sapan-1
AGRAS-500SA is Siper-B2D / Sapan-2

Those are only two missiles made from scratch for navy,

Are there any prototypes or photos of Hisar-D2 since they were made?

( We saw Hisar-D1 that launched from TCG İstanbul, i am asking especially about Hisar-D2)

 

[cr33pt3d]

the naming scheme is so confusing that i'm entertaining the idea that it is made on purpose