TR Air Defence Programs

[Radko]

Someone was talking about a dual pack huh?


This is a good point, ALP-600G or ALP-500G is not the SEIRS. I will bet on ALP-500G being a portable high altitude radar from its size. Even a dual-band radar.

500G could be the Turkish TPY-2, given it's size and shape

 

[Sanchez]

Someone was talking about a dual pack huh?


This is a good point, ALP-600G or ALP-500G is not the SEIRS. I will bet on ALP-500G being a portable high altitude radar from its size. Even a dual-band radar.

"With the aim of taking the defense power of the Turkish Armed Forces to the highest level thanks to the stage reached and the knowledge gained in the ALP-300G, and in line with the decision of the Defense Industry Executive Committee, the development of the ALP-500G Fixed Early Warning Radar System, the largest member of the early warning radar family to date, has been initiated. Beyond being just a radar, the ALP-500G stands out as an integrated sensor solution with its own building and a dome radome infrastructure, which will be designed and produced nationally for the first time. The ALP-500G will have a capability far beyond existing early warning radars in terms of detection range performance."

Aselsan 2023 official report calls 500G SEİRS. Page 115. https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/ASELSAN_2023_FAALIYET_RAPORU_20240530.pdf

Only image we have for it so far from Aselsan's instagram account. Interestingly calls it transportable via trucks and aircraft, but from what else is said about it, it will only be deployed on fixed locations:

 

[TheInsider]

I am wondering if SIPER block 3 can be integrated seamlessly with existing C2 and sensor architecture like block 2 is supposed to be. In this way TUrAF and potential export operators can gain ABM capability just by procuring the interceptor. @TheInsider

Yes and no. Any friendly nation might buy Siper 3 and use it with existing batteries but to take advantage of its full capabilities Aselsan YIRAD (High Altitude radar) is needed at the minimum. Turkiye also plans to deploy space-based sensors after 2030 to further improve effectiveness of the system.

BTW according to dimensions shared Siper-1 (235mm diameter without booster, 370mm with booster) can be quadpacked if a new booster is designed. I think using the booster of Atmaca was a good call as a stop-gap solution but Roketsan should design a new booster for Siper-1 with a diameter smaller than 254mm. Efficient use of VLS cells is very important. I class ships can carry 8x4 Hisar, 4x4 Siper-1 and 4x Gezgin as a standard combat load.

 

[Anmdt]

"With the aim of taking the defense power of the Turkish Armed Forces to the highest level thanks to the stage reached and the knowledge gained in the ALP-300G, and in line with the decision of the Defense Industry Executive Committee, the development of the ALP-500G Fixed Early Warning Radar System, the largest member of the early warning radar family to date, has been initiated. Beyond being just a radar, the ALP-500G stands out as an integrated sensor solution with its own building and a dome radome infrastructure, which will be designed and produced nationally for the first time. The ALP-500G will have a capability far beyond existing early warning radars in terms of detection range performance."

Aselsan 2023 official report calls 500G SEİRS. Page 115. https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/ASELSAN_2023_FAALIYET_RAPORU_20240530.pdf

Only image we have for it so far from Aselsan's instagram account. Interestingly calls it transportable via trucks and aircraft, but from what else is said about it, it will only be deployed on fixed locations:

View attachment 71820

Yes but on the other hand images show 500G as something similar to AN-TPY2

 

[Kaan Azman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854239293352685831

SİPER Product 1 integration on MİDLAS will take place this year, single cell configuration developed for OPVs and off-topic but submarine MİDLAS is confirmed to be under development for MİLDEN.

 

[zio]

Aselsan 35mm atom and aselsan 25mm atom….I hope next would be, canik 30/113mm,ermeksan 40/70mm,or mke 76mm.

 

[Huelague]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854239293352685831

SİPER Product 1 integration on MİDLAS will take place this year, single cell configuration developed for OPVs and off-topic but submarine MİDLAS is confirmed to be under development for MİLDEN.

How many cells will our OPV get?

 

[Sanchez]

And here's the VLS variant.

I do like that they are each a single cell. Should be interesting.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854399817264296437

 

[uçuyorum]

And here's the VLS variant.

I do like that they are each a single cell. Should be interesting.

View attachment 71881

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854399817264296437

Might be easier for ADA class than hisar and the better option

 

[Sanchez]

Might be easier for ADA class than hisar and the better option

If it was with Gökdoğan instead..

 

[Anmdt]

but submarine MİDLAS is confirmed to be under development for MİLDEN.

It doesn't seem confirmed but deduced by the author. Milden has circular bays for missiles and as far as i know these won't be used for AAW. And these launchers often referred as silo and has special lids and structure to withstand the pressure.

This is like seeing 4x4 Pars and telling 8x8 Pars is based on the chasis of 4x4 Pars.

 

[Anmdt]

And here's the VLS variant.

I do like that they are each a single cell. Should be interesting.

View attachment 71881

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854399817264296437

Well it still seems to be in stage of 'brain storming). It is useless without stacking, and too much space for a single missile with limited capability. They should at least offer Gökdoğan. Not expecting a booster version as it contradictz the idea of using missile as is.

They should have either made it cold launched or stacked 2/4 missile and attach a single exhaust. The missile is sufficiently compact to allow it.

If it was with Gökdoğan instead..

It should, or Roketsan's single cell version will beat it.

 

[Kaan Azman]

I don't remember implying that MİLDEN will use it for AAW or something and the Manager clearly said MİLDEN in the presentation.

 

[Anmdt]

I don't remember implying that MİLDEN will use it for AAW or something and the Manager clearly said MİLDEN in the presentation.

Well then as far as i know MILDEN uses silo approach and that will be similar to modular launcher used by USN. Because in the long run Turkish Navy wants to launch more than just Gezgin.

I don't think you would require a VLS design similar to MILDAS for submarine launched missiles.

 

[UkroTurk]

And here's the VLS variant.

I do like that they are each a single cell. Should be interesting.

View attachment 71881

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854399817264296437

İt reminds me Umkhonto VLS solution. Every cell has own exhaust exit.
"Concentric canister launch"

 

[Sanchez]

İt reminds me Umkhonto VLS solution. Every cell has own exhaust exit.
"Concentric canister launch"

It is useless without stacking, and too much space for a single missile with limited capability.

I think single cell design may be a good solution for retrofits on older, smaller ships where space is at a premium, like Indonesia is planning. When the other option is nothing, 2 on one side, 4 on the other doesn't sound too bad without increasing costs enormously for an older ship.

 

[Anmdt]

I think single cell design may be a good solution for retrofits on older, smaller ships where space is at a premium, like Indonesia is planning. When the other option is nothing, 2 on one side, 4 on the other doesn't sound too bad without increasing costs enormously for an older ship.

If you are referring to Malaysian LMSB2 project it has VLS cells compatible or larger cell width to Mk41/MIDLAS and holds 4 missiles, linked to a single exhaust line, whereas Göksur VLS is rather in dimension of JAGM QUAD per cell and each cell has an individual exhaust.

So given the size of Göksur VLS cell and the single missile it holds, the individual cell is lesslikely to be used alone, it will be at least a stack of 2 - 4 to 1 or 2 to 2.

To win against Roketsan's single and short MIDLAS Aselsan has to come up with a better solution to cover more than just boat classes. Launching Kuzgun, Bozdoğan - Gökdoğan and UAVs with cold launch mechanism sounds like a good way to me and the partner - TÜBİTAK SAGE has studied cold launch earlier.

 

[boredaf]

Launching Kuzgun, Bozdoğan - Gökdoğan and UAVs with cold launch mechanism sounds like a good way to me and the partner - TÜBİTAK SAGE has studied cold launch earlier.

Not just the VLS but it would be amazing if they could modify the latest 20 missile Göksur launcher to have the capability to fire other missiles as well if necessary.

 

[UkroTurk]

As Göksur 100N VLS has above deck configuration, it could be even put on a mobile trailer /or a container where VLS prevents fire hazardous. Every ship could have SAM systems Incase of needs.I love the separated one cell- one exhaust design.

Even in submarines could be deployed.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Well then as far as i know MILDEN uses silo approach and that will be similar to modular launcher used by USN. Because in the long run Turkish Navy wants to launch more than just Gezgin.

I don't think you would require a VLS design similar to MILDAS for submarine launched missiles.

Of course a brother can't slap the MİDLAS on a submarine the way it is. We have seen that a modified K-VLS for KSS-III is good and kicking for SRBMs.

ASFAT has already put the debut of MİLDEN with VLS with a rough mini-model of ATAMCA and we know that MİDLAS will be capable of both ATMACA and GEZGİN.

But I'm certainly gonna keep defending the idea of putting a geometrically adjsuted TAYFUN for MİDLAS as the quick strike option alongside the subsonic ones (Murat İkinci said there is some plan on that a year ago and we also know that TAYFUN's length is within strike length boundaries).

Anyway, this is kinda going off topic, just included it as it was part of the news article