TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

Zafer

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That doesn't make sense since we have been using their weapons against our enemies for decades, including this very year. Or do you think F-16s we've been using are from some other magical country other than the US?
When did you use these weapons against western countries, Greece doesn't even count as we are not even conflicting with them. Enemies who have invaded Türkiye once already you want to count on them to give you weapons to fight whom. Other nations than the west we don't need any more weapons than we are already making ourselves. All lame ass claims you make I won't even bother answering.
 

Zoth

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I saw tweets mentioning conditions on EF not to fly it in Aegean/Adalar denizi.
I also saw tweets from good defence industry channels that deny that.





Turkey has 2 very strict red lines, they don't accept any conditions on where to fly whatever they buy and the most important part is the integration of our indigenous systems.

Same type of stuff was also mentioned when F-16 deal was approved and then categorically denied by our officials :rolleyes: its almost like some people immediately go into shit stirring mod or something.

This is not a rumor, Eurofighter delegation is already in Turkey and in talks with Aselsan, Roketsan, Havelsan or TAI in general, other than Germany all other 3 members on the consortium really want this deal to pass. And it seems that it will pass.


In the other hand, the F16 deal is more complicated, Turkey same as in above example, wants to integrate their indigenous systems into F16-Vipers but USA seems that doesn't like that idea, they also want to build the new F16s in Turkey and also make the modernization in Turkey due to how congested F16 production line is at Lockheed factories.

Tolga Özbek claims Turkey is interested in second hand EF-2000s from gulf countries to speed up the procurement, probably Saudi or Qatar. But I doubt it, Yaşar Güler did state that they're not interested in second hand jets in the past. Unlike the previously reported UK T1s though, Saudi and Qatar jets are pretty new. Saudis have 48 T2 and 24 T3s and Qatar is still getting the delivery of its 24 T3s, I think only half or so were delivered until now. Maybe they want to get Qatar's yet to be delivered T3s as a stop gap(for the stopgap..)
You are right, but getting some second hand Eurofighters will speed up our proccess of intregrating them into our logistic lines, getting EFs now and start flying and maintaining them now will be beneficial for us once we get our T4/T5s in the future.
 

boredaf

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This is not a rumor, Eurofighter delegation is already in Turkey and in talks with Aselsan, Roketsan, Havelsan or TAI in general, other than Germany all other 3 members on the consortium really want this deal to pass. And it seems that it will pass.
You misunderstood me mate, I was talking about there being red lines about the Eurofighter purchase. Same kind of talk was going around on tweeter when the rumours of F-16 agreement being done were making the rounds.
 

Zoth

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You misunderstood me mate, I was talking about there being red lines about the Eurofighter purchase. Same kind of talk was going around on tweeter when the rumours of F-16 agreement being done were making the rounds.
Ah yeah, you were talking about the same rumors for red lines, yeah i totally misunderstood that part, my bad.
 

dBSPL

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IMO, Qatar's EFs are hardly second-hand. They received their first jet in 2022 and as far as I know, full operational capability has not yet been declared. Deliveries have not been completed anyway. In fact, the Qatari Air Force has purchased more aircraft than its capacity, almost like filling its plate from a buffet, due to the comfort provided by vast financial resources, political support recruitment-lobbying and planning mistakes. Qatar's special position is its network of diplomatic relations, not hardpower. Apart from the EF, Qatar also continues to order F-15s and has 36 Rafale aircraft, some of which are in Konya. Very probably, they will also want to buy KAAN in the first available schedule.

The Kuwaiti air force is a bit more reliant on the EF. So even if we take this speculation as true, I don't see Kuwait and KSA as likely, the country he is referring to is probably Qatar.

On the other hand, I think that there is a negotiation package that aims for concrete significant progress in defense cooperation with the EU region, including not only the purchase of 20+20 EFs, but also additional A400Ms, MRTT kits and its domestic retrofit activities. Even though no longer a must for us, we can expect an acceleration in the joint air defense project, taking into account the needs for EU. From unmanned aviation to air defense, we are no longer just buyers; there is significant mutual potential here. Joking but true, if they give the Eurodrone project to Baykar or TAI, they will have a ready-to-go platform within 2 year.
 
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Zapper

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I saw tweets mentioning conditions on EF not to fly it in Aegean/Adalar denizi.
EU economy is currently shit...I heard this clause was being put in by the Germans but it's very likely for the other 3 countries to pressurize Germans to let go just so they can keep the jobs and firms running while getting in some much needed cash

Not to mention, such clauses often don't mean anything. The F-16s for instance were sold to pakistanis to be used for anti-terrorist activities on their western front (kinda dubious since one would need gunships over fighter jets for such ops) but we all know against whom they're primarily intended for
 

Quasar

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GZ168pHXAAg3wyn


The first flight of the aircraft equipped with mission equipment in the HAVA-SOJ project is coming soon

 

Kartal1

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What is the chance that we cooperate on the KC-390 with Embraer within this agreement? I think this will be a good option for a future replacement of our C-130s. I just saw that they are also making a tanker version for it.

I remember that in the past there was going to be a cooperation agreement between TUSAS and Embraer, but TUSAS scrapped it as they didn't see the future potential of Embraer at the time. Maybe it is time for a second chance? :rolleyes:

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Oublious

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What is the chance that we cooperate on the KC-390 with Embraer within this agreement? I think this will be a good option for a future replacement of our C-130s. I just saw that they are also making a tanker version for it.

I remember that in the past there was going to be a cooperation agreement between TUSAS and Embraer, but TUSAS scrapped it as they didn't see the future potential of Embraer at the time. Maybe it is time for a second chance? :rolleyes:

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kicking Israel out of South America.
 

boredaf

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What is the chance that we cooperate on the KC-390 with Embraer within this agreement? I think this will be a good option for a future replacement of our C-130s. I just saw that they are also making a tanker version for it.

I remember that in the past there was going to be a cooperation agreement between TUSAS and Embraer, but TUSAS scrapped it as they didn't see the future potential of Embraer at the time. Maybe it is time for a second chance? :rolleyes:

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I swear I was thinking about the chances of us being interest in this bird just yesterday. I feel like air force might want to keep the logistics simple and continue on with the LM and Airbus planes, but it looks like a really good alternative.

Imagine if we could get a production line going here, that would bloody amazing.
 

Sanchez

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With the mentioned C-130J purchase and extra A400 order, I don't think air force would be interested in a similar sized aircraft. We absolutely will need a CN-235 replacement in the next decade however.
 

Fairon

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I wonder what is included in the deal.

Joint-developement of AWACS and maritime patrol aircraft based on C390 or E-Jet2 series might be interesting.( Yes E290 is not as capable as B737 but might just capable enough)

Also slowly replacing C130s with C390's that we can modify as we want sounds tempting.( If that can be included in the deals)
 

Saithan

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I think it's important to balance things. While atm we are heavily relient on LM and Airbus I think the CN235 was a nice little niche that could allow us to cooperate more with Spain/Indonesia.

I do not think we should reduce our cooperation on CN235 or better/newer platforms. Especially not if we're expecting customers for KAAN and anything else we want to sell.

Just as I expect LM and Airbus are using our production capability to civil aviation as a give-and-take moving too much to a different platform might mean they'll move/shift production elsewhere.

But we need to somehow break the ice and having a small, but reliable start is important. Let's not put all our eggs in one basket :)
 

dBSPL

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I honestly don't think that the Air Force will be satisfied with such limited capacity in the tactical air cargo fleet in the next generation after 235s. There may be a joint development with a country or there may be an under-license production, but as a precedent, I believe that C-27J can be considered as a lowest limit. With the C27J as an example, you can fly close to 5000km with 5 tons of payload, while with CN235s you can fly around of 1000km.
 
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Sanchez

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I honestly don't think that the Air Force will be satisfied with such limited capacity in the tactical air cargo fleet in the next generation after 235s. There may be a joint development with a country or there may be an under-license production, but as a precedent, I believe that C-27J can be considered as a lowest limit. With the C27J as an example, you can fly close to 5000km with 5 tons of payload, while with CN235s you can fly around of 1000km.
Air Force already had a plan 6-7 years ago for a larger aircraft, Genel Maksat Uçağı(GMU) program to acquire 6 CN-295 and C-27J were both supposed to be participants but program was cancelled I believe.

I always liked the CN-235. We got them to basically replace DC-3s. We have nearly 50 in service in the air force alone. They proved to be real work horses for any transport missions between bases over the last 3 decades. Suffice to say we probably outgrew them at this point.
 

dBSPL

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Air Force already had a plan 6-7 years ago for a larger aircraft, Genel Maksat Uçağı(GMU) program to acquire 6 CN-295 and C-27J were both supposed to be participants but program was cancelled I believe.

I always liked the CN-235. We got them to basically replace DC-3s. We have nearly 50 in service in the air force alone. They proved to be real work horses for any transport missions between bases over the last 3 decades. Suffice to say we probably outgrew them at this point.
I have the same emotional attachment to the CN-235. However, when I think about some of the logistics lines that the air force needs to fly non-stop and without resupply today and in the next 50 years, I draw a rough ruler and realize that the smallest aircraft currently in service that can fly these distances with a load of 4-5 tons are C27Js. If we don't include most far bases like Mogadishu, 295s are also sufficient. In short, I think we will moving towards a more medium class in the tactical fleet because in his way fleet can cover also small payload on long distances. I hope that these aircraft will be produced domestically too.
 

Saithan

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Isn't it fine to have a variety, as long as it sustains and expands our knowledge and maintenance capabilities ? the C-295 could be a nice addition as it should be fairly similar to CN235

 

boredaf

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“Germany wants a written guarantee from Turkey that its Eurofighter Typhoon warplanes will not be used in the Aegean.”

— MEE


No.
Best we could do is a pinky promise. Also, they'll change this position as well, imo, they already came from refusing outright to dragging their feet while sulking and asking for this. They need this sale almost as much as we need this purchase.
 

chngr

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Best we could do is a pinky promise. Also, they'll change this position as well, imo, they already came from refusing outright to dragging their feet while sulking and asking for this. They need this sale almost as much as we need this purchase.
You will still rely on spare parts from Germany...Germany is unreliable partner
 

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