TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[boredaf]

Simply go full rate on Ozgur upgrade, Turkiye has the TAI and Tomtas facilities. Upgrade them in record time to Ozgur blk II level

How do you know we can do it any faster than we are doing it at the moment?

 

[Nutuk]

To build new F16's we need to free up production lines, get production line setups from LM etc. etc. (not worth the investment while we are fully going for Hurjet and Kaan)

The Tomtas facilities can be fully reserved for upgrades, buy 80 upgrade kits for viper upgrade and pump out Ozgur blk II upgraded F16's.

With the money they gonna waste on new F16's we can put a whole new modern plant and upgrade in high speed

 

[TheInsider]

I didn't say SABR is the latest AESA tech in radars but It is certain that it is the latest of its generation F16's best variant can use and this make it the last gen for F16s a customer can purchase. That's what I meant

Understood.

I want to say, in general, any AESA radar that doesn't have GaN modules is not the latest and greatest. GaN adds a generational performance uplift. This is proven both scientifically and with on-field performance experience.
We shouldn't fly with anything less than AESA in 2030 and aim to field at least half of the fleet with GaN AESA.

 

[uçuyorum]

Greek F-35s will cause a lot of headaches.
Buying the S-400 has to be the dumbest foreign policy decision ever. We gave the USA a reason to kick us out of the program on a golden platter. I cannot imagine how hard the Greek and Israeli lobbies in Washington laughed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751182132813177321

This stupidity will go down in the history books.

We collectively deserved this mockery for our unrelenting stupidity. Need to get our shit togheter quickly.

I should probably quit following defense news for a while for my own mental well being.

 

[TheInsider]

BTW I don't understand this deal. Why didn't we ask to integrate our own weapons and pods into F-16Vs? We should have brought this into the negotiations. This deal makes zero sense and logic.

Oh we should have also asked the cancellation of CAATSA sanctions.

 

[YeşilVatan]

We should have asked for a full Syria withdrawal or F-35 just to begin negotiations. Such an opportunity comes once every 50 years.

Emeği geçenlerin yatacak yeri yok.

 

[Sanchez]

D-3 is only for domestic use afaik. C-3 is its export variant.

C8 still lacks the two way datalink and much greater range, no? There are at least 4 120D users outside of US, important US allies like UK, Norway, Canada and Australia. I'm interested to see if the future Greek package will include D.

 

[Afif]

C8 still lacks the two way datalink and much greater range, no? There are at least 4 120D users outside of US, important US allies like UK, Norway, Canada and Australia. I'm interested to see if the future Greek package will include D.

You are right 120D has foreign users.

I was talking about D-3 which resulted from F3R program. And so far it hasn't been offered for export yet afaik. C-8 also incorporate the advances of F3R program.

 

[chngr]

C8 still lacks the two way datalink and much greater range, no? There are at least 4 120D users outside of US, important US allies like UK, Norway, Canada and Australia. I'm interested to see if the future Greek package will include D.

" nine hundred fifty-two (952) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-8 or equivalent missiles "

Only equivalent aim-120D...maybe just maybe

 

[Sanchez]

" nine hundred fifty-two (952) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-8 or equivalent missiles "

Only equivalent aim-120D...maybe just maybe

Or C7 . C5 and C7 I believe are no longer in production, but depending on the deal, maybe they give C7s from USAF stock.

 

[chngr]

Or C7 . C5 and C7 I believe are no longer in production, but depending on the deal, maybe they give C7s from USAF stock.

why would they do? already approved with this ''equivalent''....they can even sold us Aim-120d

 

[Strong AI]

Greek F-35s will cause a lot of headaches.
Buying the S-400 has to be the dumbest foreign policy decision ever. We gave the USA a reason to kick us out of the program on a golden platter. I cannot imagine how hard the Greek and Israeli lobbies in Washington laughed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751182132813177321

This stupidity will go down in the history books.

"If Turkey had bought F-35s, they could have bombed Athens without us seeing them."

So when ANKA-3 and KAAN gets operational, Türkiye will be able to bomb Athens without Greece noticing it. Noted

On a side note, imo he should consume less Ouzo. He is acting like F-35 is alien tech.

EDIT: By the way, before their first F-35 gets operational, Türkiye will have a huge arsenal of ballistic and cruise missiles, able to strike every corner of Greece. And at least three earth observation satellites will be orbiting earth.
It would be wise for him to lower his tone.

 

[Oublious]

In the begin Cem Dogut explains how the proces work and according to hem we will not pay that amount money. Why did we buy bombs and missiles.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

We had to use this chance and purchase some more CH-47s.

I would've liked to order a couple of C-17s.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

I would've liked to order a couple of C-17s.

The US does not produce the C-17 anymore. Spain is canceling the last 13 A400M that was destined for them, Turkiye should procure them.

 

[dBSPL]

The current Greenville's Viper production capacity for 2024 is 1.6 aircraft per month. From next year onwards, 4 aircraft per month, 48 per year. Current block-70 order book: Bahrain 16, Morocco 24, Taiwan 66, Bulgaria 16, Slovakia 14, Jordan 12, Turkiye 40. Total 188 jets.

If we will be in the latest lot and there are no other options in between, TAF jets could start rolling out from the line in late 2027 or early 2028. I hope the integration of the V-modernization kits will take place within TAI. Thus, we can complete the modernization of F-16 fleets before 2030.

 

[Merzifonlu]

IMO USA haven't made any sales yet, for now.

If the sale goes through (I won't believe it until I receive the equipment, by the way), I think it would be good for two reasons: i) Maintenance of the existing F-16 fleet would no longer be a problem. ii) We will gain time until we can produce domestic air-to-air missiles in significant quantities.

Other than continuing to produce indigenous air-to-air missiles, IMO there are two additional things we need to do very urgently:
a) We must put the Murad AESA radar into mass production as soon as possible.
b) As soon as 3-5 Hürjet units (they do not need to be armed) enter the inventory, we should establish a test fleet to study the "Hürjet, Capable of Operating Drones+KE+Anka-3" concept.

Putting domestic turbofan engines into mass production comes right after these. That's also priority, of course.

 

[2033]

IMO USA haven't made any sales yet, for now.

If the sale goes through (I won't believe it until I receive the equipment, by the way), I think it would be good for two reasons: i) Maintenance of the existing F-16 fleet would no longer be a problem. ii) We will gain time until we can produce domestic air-to-air missiles in significant quantities.

Other than continuing to produce indigenous air-to-air missiles, IMO there are two additional things we need to do very urgently:
a) We must put the Murad AESA radar into mass production as soon as possible.
b) As soon as 3-5 Hürjet units (they do not need to be armed) enter the inventory, we should establish a test fleet to study the "Hürjet, Capable of Operating Drones+KE+Anka-3" concept.

Putting domestic turbofan engines into mass production comes right after these. That's also priority, of course.

I don't believe they will sell to us. They found an opportunity to humiliate us. They will give F-35 to Greece and not even give us F-16.

They will not give the Kaan engine either. Kaan will not enter the inventory before 2040.

All we can do is EF2000.

 

[DBdev]

Let’s elaborate on your rough calculations:
According to official US defence sources the cost of Greece’s 123 plane upgrade kit will cost them 2.4 billion dollars. This includes 125 Aesa radars and 123 kits of avionics etc.

Government of Greece – Upgrade of F-16 Aircraft to F-16 Block V Configuration | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

That means Greeks are paying just under 20 million dollars per kit. I can’t see us paying a great deal more than that. So for the 79 kits, it totals 1.55 billion dollars.

Regarding the F16 V70 planes themselves; there are various quotes made by LM:
Slovakia has been offered 14 planes for 800million. That is 57 million a piece.
For Colombia they have offered 108 million dollars a piece for 24 planes and 133 million dollars a piece for 12 planes. However these include variety of different munitions.
Bulgaria is contemplating to buy 8 F16 planes for 1.3 billion. That means 162 million a piece.
Below site quotes f16v70 price to be 63million a piece

Top 10 most expensive fighter jets in 2024

What do you think are the most expensive fighter jets in the world today? (hint, it’s not the F35)

www.aerotime.aero

As Turkey will want to produce these aircrafts and their engines in house at Tusas and TEI, I can’t see us paying more than Slovakian planes.
So that makes 2.4 billion for the 40 planes.
Regarding 600 AAMs:
If we are thinking of buying the long range AIM 120 D version (Since we have Gokdogan in production it is only apt to think that we will go for the Aim 120D) : UK ordered 200 of them for 650 million dollars. Making it 3.25 million a piece. So for 600 missiles it would total 1.95 billion dollars.
Regarding the 800 Precision Guided Munition :
It s difficult to guess what we would be buying from US, since we have so many different versions of this type of munition in our inventory. The only munition that makes sense is something like an AGM-88G HARM as Akbaba is still in development stage (Since Greeks have recently ordered the E version) at a price of nearly 1 million a piece making 0.8 billion.

So in total the logical payable cost of this order should be no more than 6 billion dollars. 20 billion dollars is outrageously high and in explicable.

Anybody has any ideas how this 6 billion turned into 23 billion despite basically the same items? Why the hell did we agree to this rip off?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I respect all views but I dont approve of those who are spreading nonstop fear and panic with worst case scenarios.

What Turkiye is doing now is to increase deterrence and discourage adversaries with intermediate solutions. We do not aim to buy Eurofighter T4/5/6 or F16 Block70/90/100 and brag about them for future homeland protection but regional adversaries don't have any other alternative than purchasing them even if they swim in the dept ocean. Think in the perception of other side for once to see who has the battle-readiness and menthal superiority. Imagine cost of attacking a country of 85 million with 40 F35s (2030+), 24 Rafale and 84 F16Vs against a fleet of 315 aircraft with AESA and thousands of BVR missiles until KAAN arrives?

That is why these purchases are only an interim solution because our real target is much bigger than what is seen and will have a deterrent that enemy cant even imagine but in an environment where countries in all direction are fighting with eqchother and everyone is talking about WW3, we only need TIME. 40 F16 and 40 Eurofighters will provide us with this necessary time. Within this time, majority of 857 ongoing projects qorth almost 90 billion $ will be completed, additional production facility investments will be completed and war-time production activities will be carried out without stopping. At the same time, ongoing investments in excellent test centers will be completed and KAAN will be turned into a real war machine with its advanced sensors and fusion center. In the partnerships established for turbofan engine projects, prototypes will be produced and tested with the most advanced technologies. Anka and Kizilelma will also evolve and make a name for themselves in the air with the contributions of AI and autonomous features. We will witness some of these fighter drones reaching supersonic speeds and firing BVR missiles.