TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Sanchez]

Kinda sad for the airforce no new fighter jets in 17 years (2011-2028) at least coming decade looks very promising

If it can come, that is.

 

[Lool]

For those who are confused, this is the simplification of the matter:

>>>Trump wants to make Turkey a cash machine for the US industrial complex in order to finance their already-late 6th generation fighter jet; as China already flew three different 6th gen prototypes

>>>Erdogan's govt is split into 2 different groups: the first wants to buy US fighter jets as a stop-gap measure for the TAF. The second group wants to give priority to domestic manufacturers and just buy US engines for KAAN pronto.

The problem with the first group's idea is that the US's F16 and F35 production lines are already reserved for at least the next 3 years; thus, any planes to Turkey will be given after 3 years minimum. Moreover, the initial deal is estimated at a massive 50 billion dollars for the F16s alone (not to mention the F35s). Moreover, the US doesnt want to allow Turkey to use its domestic munitions on its F16 Viper jets and abandon american amunitions. Finally, many Turkish officials are worried that the US take the initial money for the F16s and after a couple of years, they will come up with an excuse from their a** to sanction Turkey and prevent them from not only obtaining American jets but also prevent the domestic jet from being properly financed

The problem with the second group is that the US doesnt want to sell Turkey its engines without securing the massive initial F16 deal. Such a deal will deplete Turkish govt's reserves and make them unable to appropriately find KAAN for some years. Moreover, many expect the KAAN program to face many delays and probably only be incorporated into TAF in 2030 (just like how South Korea jet program got delayed a lot)

I also want to mention that Turkey will continue to please Trump since rumors do indicate that Turkey plans a Military Operation in SDF-controlled Syria next year if the SDF refuse to implement the March 10 agreement (ofcourse if the rumors are true that is)

No path will be easy for Turkey

 

[boredaf]

>>>Trump wants to make Turkey a cash machine for the US industrial complex in order to finance their already-late 6th generation fighter jet; as China already flew three different 6th gen prototypes

That is just nonsense. Even if we purchased everything in that 20 billion agreement it is nothing but a drop in the bucket for the US. And that is just their public budget.

Moreover, the initial deal is estimated at a massive 50 billion dollars for the F16s alone (not to mention the F35s).

Where on earth are you getting that number from??? We already know the exact deal submitted and approved by the US Congress and even with 40 planes, 80 upgrade kits, fuck ton of spare parts and munitions it was 20 something billion.

Finally, many Turkish officials are worried that the US take the initial money for the F16s and after a couple of years, they will come up with an excuse from their a** to sanction Turkey and prevent them from not only obtaining American jets but also prevent the domestic jet from being properly financed

They didn't come up with a reason to stop the F-35, our government gave them a proper reason and had plenty of warning beforehand.

Moreover, many expect the KAAN program to face many delays and probably only be incorporated into TAF in 2030

It *is* going to get into our inventory in 2030s, we already know this. Just this summer there have been multiple mentions of 2032 with domestic engine at earliest iirc.

 

[Lool]

That is just nonsense. Even if we purchased everything in that 20 billion agreement it is nothing but a drop in the bucket for the US. And that is just their public budget.

Where on earth are you getting that number from??? We already know the exact deal submitted and approved by the US Congress and even with 40 planes, 80 upgrade kits, fuck ton of spare parts and munitions it was 20 something billion.

The initial deal was around 40 F16s and 79 modernisation kits from the US for its already existing F16s valued at nearly ~50 billion dollars (if i remember right). Turkey then reduced it to around 40 jets to concentrate on its Ozgur program. Now, Turkey wants to reduce it even more

And Yes, Trump needs money from Turkey especially in a potential sale of F16s and F35s that could provide the US with billions of dollars

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1971105339224526994

They didn't come up with a reason to stop the F-35, our government gave them a proper reason and had plenty of warning beforehand.

The main OFFICIAL reason for the CAATSA sancyion imposed on Turkey was that the S400 is detrimental to the US since the S400 can steal valuable data from the F35

This has been refuted by Lindsay Graham who stated that the obly reason that Turkey was placed in the CAATSA sanction list is to make an example out of Turkey to all US-allied nations to not buy weapons from anyone other than the US

Why on Earth is Turkey getting a warning while India which has numerous batteries of S400s are being offered not only US-made engines but also F35s in return for co-operation and more anti-China policy?

It *is* going to get into our inventory in 2030s, we already know this. Just this summer there have been multiple mentions of 2032 with domestic engine at earliest iirc.

Some TAI officials did state that the first 4.5 KAAN will be made available to the TAF by the end of 2028/early 2029. I just posted that a portion of the officials in the govt dont believe that it is feasible

 

[boredaf]

The initial deal was around 40 F16s and 79 modernisation kits from the US for its already existing F16s valued at nearly ~50 billion dollars (if i remember right). Turkey then reduced it to around 40 jets to concentrate on its Ozgur program. Now, Turkey wants to reduce it even more

And Yes, Trump needs money from Turkey especially in a potential sale of F16s and F35s that could provide the US with billions of dollars

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1971105339224526994

The main OFFICIAL reason for the CAATSA sancyion imposed on Turkey was that the S400 is detrimental to the US since the S400 can steal valuable data from the F35

This has been refuted by Lindsay Graham who stated that the obly reason that Turkey was placed in the CAATSA sanction list is to make an example out of Turkey to all US-allied nations to not buy weapons from anyone other than the US

Why on Earth is Turkey getting a warning while India which has numerous batteries of S400s are being offered not only US-made engines but also F35s in return for co-operation and more anti-China policy?

Some TAI officials did state that the first 4.5 KAAN will be made available to the TAF by the end of 2028/early 2029. I just posted that a portion of the officials in the govt dont believe that it is feasible

I'm sorry but, lmfao. You are taking what Trump says seriously? That is absolutely hilarious. His brain is melting at this point and he has no idea what he is talking about, at all. And Lindsay Graham is an arse licker who would say anything to look tough, or, make Trump look tough. F-35 to India was nothing but Trump bullshitting, again, since nothing even remotely official happened there. Seriously, Trump's brain is mush, stop taking him seriously.

And YOU ARE remembering it wrong it was NEVER 50 billion, ever. 20 or 23 billion was the number for the whole deal. The fact that you are still saying that number even though I told you we have the actual deal already written down and it was around 20 is fucking weird.

And some TAI officials were talking out of their arses that is why right now all the talk shifted to 2030s already.

 

[Zafer]

Passenger plane order to Boeing can be in the hundreds if the US plays well.

 

[Sanchez]

Passenger plane order to Boeing can be in the hundreds if the US plays well.

I don't think this is as big of a leverage as it's made out to be. TK for decades have run a dual fleet of European and American aircraft. It's a doubling of the fleet to get better deals from manufacturers and to make sure in the event of a crisis, portion of the fleet can run regardless, be it systematic issues, maintenance issues etc.

TK already ordered about 250 Airbus units in 2023. Airbus orderbook is nearly full, with airlines outbidding each other to get a slot, lots of delays in production due to supply chain issues in both sides of the atlantic as well. TK has to order Boeings to hit their previously stated goals and to keep the fleet young. Maybe the order gets delayed 2-3 more years, but it will happen.

 

[Zafer]

I don't think this is as big of a leverage as it's made out to be. TK for decades have run a dual fleet of European and American aircraft. It's a doubling of the fleet to get better deals from manufacturers and to make sure in the event of a crisis, portion of the fleet can run regardless, be it systematic issues, maintenance issues etc.

TK already ordered about 250 Airbus units in 2023. Airbus orderbook is nearly full, with airlines outbidding each other to get a slot, lots of delays in production due to supply chain issues in both sides of the atlantic as well. TK has to order Boeings to hit their previously stated goals and to keep the fleet young. Maybe the order gets delayed 2-3 more years, but it will happen.

Who knows maybe China catches up or maybe Airbus grow bigger. Boeing losing deals left and right puts them in a tight spot. Delays of several years is pressure enough to make them compromise.

 

[Spitfire9]

Was anything related to F-35 decided at the meeting between Erdogan and Trump? Is a Eurofighter deal now dead?

 

[Fairon]

Was anything related to F-35 decided at the meeting between Erdogan and Trump? Is a Eurofighter deal now dead?

No. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For a while, and possibly in the foreseeable future, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ will be the answer to all questions related to Air Force procurements.

 

[Huelague]

This is so pathetic that a NATO member is desperately trying to get fighter jets

"NATO is brain dead." E.Macron is right.

 

[Costin1984]

Why are we putting up with this crap? They can keep their SAFE, Eurofighter, F-16/35.
It's time to make a clean break and turn to countries that really deliver, while doing our own thing. Once we've reached a certain level of technological maturity, these countries will come crawling back to us.

As I was saying in another thread, Turkey s trade volume with, a small country like Romania,is 11 billion....with Pakistan is 1.4 billion...
Welcome to the real world

 

[mTT]

The procurement of 12 C-130J military transport aircraft from the United Kingdom has been finalized.

Ministry of National Defense:

As part of the efforts to procure 12 C-130J aircraft from the United Kingdom to meet the operational needs of our Air Force Command, the aforementioned aircraft have been delivered to the relevant company for maintenance and modernization.

Following maintenance and modernization in the United Kingdom, the aircraft will be gradually incorporated into the inventory of our Air Force.

Furthermore, the maintenance and servicing of the C-130J aircraft will be carried out using domestic and national resources after Type Training.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1978759909417087325

 

[Sanchez]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1978759909417087325

Finally some updates on this front.

Company in question is Marshall Aerospace based in UK, most probably. All 15 aircraft were being kept near their hangar since 2023:

Now my question is, what will the transfer really entail; there are some really nice specimens in the ex-RAF fleet, like the C-130J4 RAF 47 SQN used for special forces missions, equipped with AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM. Being an American system, it is possible that this might be removed if the said aircraft is one of the ones to be transferred. Most aircraft are also equipped with American MWRs as well, which air force would probably would like to change with Aselsan ones.

Well after the program is concluded and aircraft are delivered to TurAF, there'll be work to do.

 

[Saithan]

Good to hear about C130 from UK. Fighterjet news is just as annoying as usual. Better not talk about them considering how messed up and put of option I consider the government to be.

 

[Sanchez]

Finally some updates on this front.

Company in question is Marshall Aerospace based in UK, most probably. All 15 aircraft were being kept near their hangar since 2023:

View attachment 77748

Now my question is, what will the transfer really entail; there are some really nice specimens in the ex-RAF fleet, like the C-130J4 RAF 47 SQN used for special forces missions, equipped with AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM. Being an American system, it is possible that this might be removed if the said aircraft is one of the ones to be transferred. Most aircraft are also equipped with American MWRs as well, which air force would probably would like to change with Aselsan ones.

Well after the program is concluded and aircraft are delivered to TurAF, there'll be work to do.

Özbek claims "per official sources", Turkey will pay 740 million USD for the 12 aircraft. Only source I can find re that figure is the defencesecurityasia article from last year. And that site's credibility can only be called dubious.

Turkiye Acquires 12 Used C-130J Transport Aircraft from RAF - Defence Security Asia

Turkiye is reportedly set to acquire 12 second-hand C-130J transport aircraft from the Royal Air Force (RAF), which have been in storage since their retirement last year, in a move to enhance its tactical airlift capabilities.

defencesecurityasia.com

I didn't see any actual official sources, definitely no official remarks. Take that number with a huge grain of salt. They are of course not going to be on pennies but 61 mil a pop is about 10 mil more than I expect.

 

[Saithan]

As long as we get them price doesn't matter

 

[Sanchez]

Marshall Aerospace secures C-130J support contract with Turkish Ministry of National Defence​

The Turkish Ministry of National Defence has awarded Marshall Aerospace a major contract to support its fleet of newly-acquired Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules aircraft.

The multi-year agreement covers entry into service and sustainment for all 12 aircraft to be operated by the Turkish Air Force, including scheduled maintenance, spares and tooling.

Marshall will also provide training to enable the customer to build up an indigenous capability on the C-130J platform....

In addition to the scheduled maintenance, Marshall will have completed centre wing box replacements on each of the 12 airframes prior to the aircraft entering into service with the Turkish Air Force.

Marshall Aerospace secures C-130J support contract with Turkish Ministry of National Defence - Marshall Group

The Turkish Ministry of National Defence has awarded Marshall Aerospace a major contract to support its fleet of newly-acquired Lockheed Martin C-130J Super …

marshallgroup.com

 

[Sanchez]

And the first family photo. I really do hope the refuel probes are retained; would be a good nice capability to have for spec ops missions.

Defence Turkey Magazine

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Fairon]

Wonder if we also consider the C27s after the C130Js? They use the same engine (different variants, though I'm not sure how different they are), we have good relations with Italy in the aviation sector, and they can reduce the C130's workload for loads that are just outside the C235's capacity but not worth using the C130 for.