TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[mTT]

NTV:

The Eurofighter fighter jet purchase has reached its final stage. The final signatures will be made during UK Prime Minister Starmer's visit to Ankara next week.

New generation Eurofighters currently in production for the Royal Air Force will be sent to Turkey.

Under the agreement, Turkey will also acquire Eurofighter fighter jets belonging to the air forces of Qatar and Oman.

The fighter jets to be procured from Oman are planned to be delivered to Turkey after modernization by the manufacturer.

With the signing of the agreements related to the Eurofighter procurement process, the training and adaptation processes for Turkish pilots will begin.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1982357075054235823

 

[Zafer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1982357075054235823

By giving their production slot today they may be looking to secure a Kaan production slot for when the time comes.

 

[Radko]

Notice how outdated the fighter jets involved in the Ukrainian war are: the Su-24, Su-27, MiG-29, and even the Yak-52 trainers and others. Tanks: the T-55, T-62, armored personnel carriers, and infantry fighting vehicles from the 1960s...

Many countries retain even the most obsolete military equipment. The Ukrainians even have a Maxim machine gun from World War I. Anything can come in handy.
Over time, both fighter jets and pilots become obsolete. But they represent a very valuable reserve. In wartime, if 50- or 60-year-old pilots are called up, they will have a hard time retraining on new, more advanced fighters. Therefore, they will have to fly older ones, such as the F-4.

It's better to have 200 obsolete aircraft than 100.
Quantity matters, too.

Yeah, and they work against what exactly? (I am talking about old Ukranian 27s and 29s) They are useless against Russian aircraft. What they do with their 27s and 29s are comparable to what we are doing with F-4s...

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1982357075054235823

So the good news is that acc. to NTV Omani EF will first be modernized and then handed off to TAF.

Guessing they will be upgraded to Tranche 4. Meaning we will have depending on the number of EF taken from Qatar (24+12) + Omani (10-12, see no reason why Oman would keep two of the EF if they are not being able to actually operate them) 48 EF Tranche 3A/4 in the inventory.

 

[mehmed beg]

I am sure that Omani Typhoons are better than any F 16 apart blocks 70, maybe? Also, F 4s can be retired and Typhoons are lot better than those. Omani Typhoons can take loads of F16s. Type as they have longer range, can be parked furtherer away, it complicates thing for adversaries. Also, the planers of the potential adversaries, must take into account the existence of the squadrons which haven't existed before. I just hope that EFs aren't too expensive. The best thing would be , if by end of 2026 THK can field a squadron of those. And let's not forget that due training of THK with Qatari Air force, I think that THK is already somewhat familiar with EFs.

 

[Sanchez]

NTV: New generation Eurofighters currently in production for the Royal Air Force will be sent to Turkey

There are no RAF EFs in production, they didn't place any new orders. Only order that is currently on the BAE line are the 12 Qatari T4s. RAF is yet to order anything. They do not have any orders. Unless Oman or Qatar orders a follow up after we take theirs, only future order BAE is to see is probably the Turkish order.

 

[Sanchez]

And here I am with ANOTHER claim.

"The two countries signed a provisional agreement in July for 40 jets and have since continued negotiations over technical specifications and pricing, which Ankara reportedly found relatively high.

One source familiar with the matter said that of the 40 jets, 20 will be operated by the Royal Air Force (RAF) to allow for faster delivery. The remaining 20 will be delivered later and customised to Turkish specifications.

To speed up delivery, Turkey signed an agreement earlier this month to purchase used Eurofighter jets from Qatar, a Turkish official familiar with the issue told MEE.

Meanwhile, Turkish broadcaster NTV reported that the UK would prioritise Ankara's order by delivering aircraft currently being built for the RAF."

UK's Starmer visit to Turkey set to finalise multibillion-dollar Eurofighter deal

British PM to visit Ankara on Monday, reportedly sending two Eurofighter jets to mark the deal

www.middleeasteye.net

MEE claims RAF will deliver 20 used EFs to TurAF. It also mentions other claims of Qatari aircraft.

So now we have 5 conflicting claims:

Reuters said 12 used + 28 new,
Bloomberg said 24 used + 12 new
Özbek said 24 Qatari EFs + 12 slots + new orders
NTV said slots for RAF being transferred to TurAF
and now MEE says 20 ex RAF jets + 20 new orders

Maybe NTV claim actually is that TurAF is to get the RAF jets to be modernized into service? Because two things are certain. There are no active RAF orders, and there's no way for RAF jets that will be modernized being inducted into service in 2026. For the RAF jets(T2-T3) to be procured and to have a "quick inventory" of the birds, we need the Qatari ones.
-
Or maybe, just maybe, NTV claim is actually for the Omani Royal Air Force jets, and they fucked up when translating from the source.

 

[Turkic]

UK's Starmer visit to Turkey set to finalise multibillion-dollar Eurofighter deal

British PM to visit Ankara on Monday, reportedly sending two Eurofighter jets to mark the deal

www.middleeasteye.net

"British PM to visit Ankara on Monday, reportedly sending two Eurofighter jets to mark the deal"

And my post is verified according to MEE

We will probably get 24/40 T4 and 2 T1 from the UK

 

[Sanchez]

"British PM to visit Ankara on Monday, reportedly sending two Eurofighter jets to mark the deal"

And my post is verified according to MEE

Jets that came to Turkey are not T1s. RAF only operates 4 T1s at the moment, all of them based in the Falklands.

 

[Turkic]

Jets that came to Turkey are not T1s. RAF only operates 4 T1s at the moment, all of them based in the Falklands.

RAF Typhoon T1 retirement sparks UK defense industry debate

The RAF's retirement of Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1 fighters has sparked debate over UK defense and industrial strategy, and reliance on US-made F-35 jets.

www.aerotime.aero

"Of the original 49 Tranche 1 Typhoons, The Times reported that four aircraft would remain in service for Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) missions in the Falkland Islands until 2027, 10 would be stripped for spare parts, 17 disposed of, 12 placed in storage pending disposal, four assigned as ground training aids, and two considered for foreign sale."

 

[Khagan1923]

And here I am with ANOTHER claim.

"The two countries signed a provisional agreement in July for 40 jets and have since continued negotiations over technical specifications and pricing, which Ankara reportedly found relatively high.

One source familiar with the matter said that of the 40 jets, 20 will be operated by the Royal Air Force (RAF) to allow for faster delivery. The remaining 20 will be delivered later and customised to Turkish specifications.

To speed up delivery, Turkey signed an agreement earlier this month to purchase used Eurofighter jets from Qatar, a Turkish official familiar with the issue told MEE.

Meanwhile, Turkish broadcaster NTV reported that the UK would prioritise Ankara's order by delivering aircraft currently being built for the RAF."

UK's Starmer visit to Turkey set to finalise multibillion-dollar Eurofighter deal

British PM to visit Ankara on Monday, reportedly sending two Eurofighter jets to mark the deal

www.middleeasteye.net

MEE claims RAF will deliver 20 used EFs to TurAF. It also mentions other claims of Qatari aircraft.

So now we have 5 conflicting claims:

Reuters said 12 used + 28 new,
Bloomberg said 24 used + 12 new
Özbek said 24 Qatari EFs + 12 slots + new orders
NTV said slots for RAF being transferred to TurAF
and now MEE says 20 ex RAF jets + 20 new orders

Maybe NTV claim actually is that TurAF is to get the RAF jets to be modernized into service? Because two things are certain. There are no active RAF orders, and there's no way for RAF jets that will be modernized being inducted into service in 2026. For the RAF jets(T2-T3) to be procured and to have a "quick inventory" of the birds, we need the Qatari ones.
-
Or maybe, just maybe, NTV claim is actually for the Omani Royal Air Force jets, and they fucked up when translating from the source.

I think no one has an actual clue what the deal is gonna be at the end of the day. We know from credible sources the Air Force has shown zero interest in RAF Jets when the Brits offered them in the first place. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding going into these articles as all of the authors have no real idea about this stuff.

Also would not be surpised if NTV just mistakenly called the QAF "Royal" as they have a Royal Family.

In the end the best situation for us is Qatari+Omani Jets, with Omani being upgraded by BAE to Tranche 4/4+ and Qatar giving over their 12 slots on the line to us.

This would gives us 48 EF. With 24 being Tranche 4/4+ and 24 3A. Both of these Air Forces have hardly used these Jets so calling them "used" is maybe the wrong word. Qatari EF don't even have 100 flight hours.

 

[Iskander]

Yeah, and they work against what exactly? (I am talking about old Ukranian 27s and 29s) They are useless against Russian aircraft. What they do with their 27s and 29s are comparable to what we are doing with F-4s...

Ukraine operates only outdated fighters and bombers. Russia, in addition to numerous older aircraft, has approximately 400 new fighters. During the initial stages of the war, both sides actively used Su-24 bombers, Su-27 fighters (Ukraine also has several of these aircraft), MiG-29s, and Su-25 attack aircraft. All were manufactured in the 1970s and 1980s.
Ukrainian Su-24s are equipped with Western cruise missiles, such as the Shtorm Shadu, Skalp, and others. MiG-29s are primarily used to destroy Russian "shahids" and cruise missiles.
The rare airial combat is conducted only at long ranges, without entering enemy airspace.
The only relatively new Russian fighters actively participating in combat are the Su-35 and the Su-34 fighter-bomber. Both are modifications of the Su-27.
In addition, Russia has approximately 20 fifth-generation Su-57 fighters. However, they never enter Ukrainian airspace and only launch missiles from long ranges, similar to Russian Su-22M3 long-range bombers and Tu-160 and Tu-95 strategic bombers.

 

[mehmed beg]

Qatar is building air base in USA, which indicates that they might get more F 15s and with that replace EFs. In that case it would be logical for Qatar to operate only F15 and Rafals. Who knows, maybe they get F 35s?
Hopefully, Turkey will get few T1 models on the cheap and use them as training assets and maybe for spare parts or occasional air patrol. Preserving the frontline planes is of utmost importance.
Anyway, this is so complicated and this is the chance for people with higher economic degrees, to show for once that they are not as useless as usually they are.

 

[Radko]

Ukraine operates only outdated fighters and bombers. Russia, in addition to numerous older aircraft, has approximately 400 new fighters. During the initial stages of the war, both sides actively used Su-24 bombers, Su-27 fighters (Ukraine also has several of these aircraft), MiG-29s, and Su-25 attack aircraft. All were manufactured in the 1970s and 1980s.
Ukrainian Su-24s are equipped with Western cruise missiles, such as the Shtorm Shadu, Skalp, and others. MiG-29s are primarily used to destroy Russian "shahids" and cruise missiles.
Air combat is conducted only at long ranges, without entering enemy airspace.
The only relatively new Russian fighters actively participating in combat are the Su-35 (of which there are approximately 200) and the Su-34 fighter-bomber. Both are modifications of the Su-27.
In addition, Russia has approximately 20 fifth-generation Su-57 fighters. However, they never enter Ukrainian airspace and only launch missiles from long ranges, similar to Russian Su-22M3 long-range bombers and Tu-160 and Tu-95 strategic bombers.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Old 27s and 29s have to revert to lobbing cruise missiles while Russian aircraft operate inside Ukraine. Btw Su-57 has been operating inside Ukrainian airspace.

So what gain would we get from procuring EFs? Apart from increasing numbers...

 

[MonteCarlo]

And you think EF's would be adequate? EFs are obsolete unless you are facing a Rafale

One fighter being worse than another in a 1vs1 doesn't mean it will be completely useless against it. Ideally we would have F-35's but it doesn't look possible at the moment so next best thing is to neutralize F-35 advantage as much as we can. We can't go on the offensive in the air against F-35 but things like Eurofighter, modernised Peace Eagles, f-16 özgür 2, akıncı with AESA, Kızılelma, long range radars, istif classes etc can be used to prevent F-35 from inflating deep into air space and then hope to take out airports with ballistic and cruise missiles to curb F-35's effectiveness. It is not ideal but it is definitely better than doing nothing

 

[Yasar_TR]

One shouldn’t over exaggerate the effectiveness of F35s.
As soon as they start carrying anything (fuel tanks or large bombs that won’t fit in it’s IWB) under wings or belly they are no different than a 4.5th generation jet. Internal weapon bays may accommodate limited number of amraam missiles and up to mk82 class JDAMs. Any more, then they are visible.

Their EW capability and the long range Aesa radar is however, an effective weapon in its own right. Any fighter jet that can overcome the EW it is subjected to and in possession of a similarly powerful radar can bring down these jets.

The trick lies in having powerful radars both in the air and in the ground, that can detect F35s in reasonable distances to form a defence against it before it unleashes its arsenal.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

I am sure that Omani Typhoons are better than any F 16 apart blocks 70, maybe? Also, F 4s can be retired and Typhoons are lot better than those. Omani Typhoons can take loads of F16s. Type as they have longer range, can be parked furtherer away, it complicates thing for adversaries. Also, the planers of the potential adversaries, must take into account the existence of the squadrons which haven't existed before. I just hope that EFs aren't too expensive. The best thing would be , if by end of 2026 THK can field a squadron of those. And let's not forget that due training of THK with Qatari Air force, I think that THK is already somewhat familiar with EFs.

We can made a air lunched ballistic missile like 6 ton from eurofighter or a big GAZAP like 5 ton MOAB type bomb
But we need to modify them

 

[Iskander]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Old 27s and 29s have to revert to lobbing cruise missiles while Russian aircraft operate inside Ukraine. Btw Su-57 has been operating inside Ukrainian airspace.

So what gain would we get from procuring EFs? Apart from increasing numbers...

If you've already decided to argue with me about the Russian Su-57's flight into Ukrainian airspace, then you can congratulate yourself a priori, because I can't prove something that didn't happen

 

[Turkic]

Türkiye'nin Typhoon tedarikinde bu hafta kritik | SavunmaSanayiST

Türkiye, Eurofighter Typhoon savaş uçağı tedarikinde son aşamaya girdi. Bir taraftan İngiltere ile sıfır uçak, diğer taraftan Katar ve Umman ile 2. el uçak

www.savunmasanayist.com

SavunmasanayiST claims to have the most accurate information:

20 new T4's and 12 T3A's from Qatar are certain. We may get Qatar's slots for 12 T4's.

Additional 20 new Eurofighters are optional, and Omani T3A's are not certain yet.

Also, they claim that we will be able to integrate all our weapon systems into Eurofighters.

 

[Strong AI]

One shouldn’t over exaggerate the effectiveness of F35s.
As soon as they start carrying anything (fuel tanks or large bombs that won’t fit in it’s IWB) under wings or belly they are no different than a 4.5th generation jet. Internal weapon bays may accommodate limited number of amraam missiles and up to mk82 class JDAMs. Any more, then they are visible.

Their EW capability and the long range Aesa radar is however, an effective weapon in its own right. Any fighter jet that can overcome the EW it is subjected to and in possession of a similarly powerful radar can bring down these jets.

The trick lies in having powerful radars both in the air and in the ground, that can detect F35s in reasonable distances to form a defence against it before it unleashes its arsenal.

Also imo we have to add to this equation our UCAVs equipped with MURAD and KARAT combined with sensor fusion.