TR Aircraft Carrier & Amphibious Ship Programs

Sanchez

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This design was shared around a few times on twitter today, probably will be shared here soon as well; so better to get ahead of it.
This is Navtek's CATOBAR design from 2023. It's not new, and we don't know if DPO entertained the idea of a CATOBAR carrier in 2023.

 

Yasar_TR

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According to this information the MUGEM will be protected by 2/3 Destroyers, 3/2 frigates and couple of MILDEN subs. Also in terms of self protection it will have a 32 cell VLS, 4 x Gokdeniz CWIS and 7 x RCWS guns. (Hopefully - although not mentioned but shown - a couple of GOKSUR point defence systems as well)

In terms of aircraft it seems like there will be Hurjets, KE and Anka-3 drones. But this carrier will need Seahawk Class helicopters for assault and ASW for protection too. Plus heavy lift multi purpose helicopters that are sea worthy.
Hurjet with twin seats and KEs and Anka-3s will be good to work together. As Hurjets will not be stealthy, what they lack in this area can be compensated to a degree by the two stealthy drones.

But a lot of systems and equipment mentioned here is either not ready or non existent yet. Some of them can be summarised as :

1. MUGEM really needs a commensurate aircraft that will do it justice. Currently there is nothing.
2. All aircraft engines and aircrafts themselves will have to be navalised.
3. MUGEM needs a tried and tested Arrester Wire system for the aircrafts it will operate. This means that the system will have to be suitable for a 5-6 ton drone and a 10-12 ton fighter jet. (Whereas EMALS can vary weights it can handle, hydraulic systems are usually not very forgiving with wide weight tolerances)
4. Many of the self protection systems and naval ships are not ready yet. Some of them are still on paper. By the time MUGEM is ready, there will be more supersonic and hypersonic AShMs and ballistic AShMs around. Self protection will have to cover these too.
5. If Hurjet is to be used as manned aircraft, then it needs a bigger wing area with a more powerful engine like f414 or EJ200 to give it better lift and higher load capability (F35C has 45% more wing area than F35A - 62.1m2 vs 42.7m2). But these engines will have to be navalised too. (Preferably an indigenous engine will be the right way to go. But that also needs money and time)

TCG Anadolu is almost a third of this ship. It’s first steel cutting was in April 2016. It joined the Navy in April 2023 with many equipment still missing. This was in-spite of the technical help we received from Navantia. MUGEM is a different and more complex ship. Being operational can take as long as 2040 or more.
 

Fuzuli NL

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But this carrier will need Seahawk Class helicopters for assault and ASW for protection too. Plus heavy lift multi purpose helicopters that are sea worthy.
What are the chances in getting cooperation from Leonardo (Agusta/Westland) to convert some T925s to an ASW/ASuW chopper from their experience with Lynx/Wildcat?
Since we're in very good terms with Italy regarding defence industry matters.

t925_mockup.jpg


We're capable of manufacturing the radar, avionics, E/O, mission computer, weapon systems and ordnance etc.
We're not there yet with making them seaworthy albeit some AH-1s were modified to an extent.

TCB-83_Bell_AH-1_SuperCobra_(cropped).jpg
 
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Sanchez

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What are the chances in getting cooperation from Leonardo (Agusta/Westland) to convert some T925s to an ASW/ASuW chopper from their experience with Lynx/Wildcat?
Since we're in very good terms with Italy regarding defence industry matters.

t925_mockup.jpg


We're capable of manufacturing the radar, avionics, E/O, mission computer, weapon systems and ordnance etc.
We're not there yet with making them seaworthy albeit some AH-1s were modified to an extent.

TCB-83_Bell_AH-1_SuperCobra_(cropped).jpg
AH-1s are navalized by their nature.

TAI of 2010 is very different from TAI of 2026. This is nothing they can't handle themselves with support from Havelsan
 

Yasar_TR

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What are the chances in getting cooperation from Leonardo (Agusta/Westland) to convert some T925s to an ASW/ASuW chopper from their experience with Lynx/Wildcat?
Since we're in very good terms with Italy regarding defence industry matters.

t925_mockup.jpg

We're capable of manufacturing the radar, avionics, E/O, mission computer, weapon systems and ordnance etc.
We're not there yet with making them seaworthy albeit some AH-1s were modified to an extent.

thumbs_b2_3535d68534649e2d4b379e087a869359.jpg
Bro, Our problem is the engine for the ASW helicopter and the T925.
With the Ukranian engine the helicopter is not really what the Navy wants. If we had the engine, we would have the rest anyway.
Italians and the British use SNECMA engines. We wouldn’t want French engines.
Navy has given an order for 56 Gokbey helicopters. They could be used for ASW if navalised. But they are no replacement for a Seahawk.

By the way, if I remember correctly we bought those Süper Cobra helicopters from US Marines. So they came in already navalised.
 

dBSPL

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What are the chances in getting cooperation from Leonardo (Agusta/Westland) to convert some T925s to an ASW/ASuW chopper from their experience with Lynx/Wildcat?
Since we're in very good terms with Italy regarding defence industry matters.
T-925 is the only domestically produced alternative for needs such as amphibious landing and personnel transport, logistics, and VERTREP, as well as heavier class ASW/ASuW, also wide area surveillance - early warning helicopters needs. But as example like Lynx Wildcat (AW159), T-625 Gökbey is already in production and sufficiently mature so can be configure for more tactical missions and general surface and underwater combatant, and even as a fire support operations, could actually form a navalized helicopter configuration much earlier.

If the Gökbey were to be used as the basis for a navalized project, its weight of approximately 6 tons would allow it to be deployed on almost all naval platforms. In its standard configuration, it could achieve an endurance of up to 4 hours, which could be extended to 5 hours with external tanks. With its low maintenance and initial acquisition costs, it could be ordered in much larger numbers. Its lower noise and vibration profile, along with its dimensions providing a rapid reaction and mobility advantage, can be a highly valuable ASW helicopter. In short, it's versatile, economical, can land on any ship, and can meet very specific needs such as ASW/ASuW, SAR, VERTREP (albeit limited), AMCM (Airborne Mine Countermeasures), MEDEVAC (Medical Evacuation), MIO (Maritime Surveillance Operation), and even OTHT. And this helicopter could be ready for production at least a few years before the T925.

On the naval side, our biggest advantage is that almost all weapon systems and avionics to be integrated into this type of helicopter are ready or already in the naval forces' inventory. The real work is navalization of platform and system integration.
 

Fuzuli NL

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T-925 is the only domestically produced alternative for needs such as amphibious landing and personnel transport, logistics, and VERTREP, as well as heavier class ASW/ASuW, also wide area surveillance - early warning helicopters needs. But as example like Lynx Wildcat (AW159), T-625 Gökbey is already in production and sufficiently mature so can be configure for more tactical missions and general surface and underwater combatant, and even as a fire support operations, could actually form a navalized helicopter configuration much earlier.

If the Gökbey were to be used as the basis for a navalized project, its weight of approximately 6 tons would allow it to be deployed on almost all naval platforms. In its standard configuration, it could achieve an endurance of up to 4 hours, which could be extended to 5 hours with external tanks. With its low maintenance and initial acquisition costs, it could be ordered in much larger numbers. Its lower noise and vibration profile, along with its dimensions providing a rapid reaction and mobility advantage, can be a highly valuable ASW helicopter. In short, it's versatile, economical, can land on any ship, and can meet very specific needs such as ASW/ASuW, SAR, VERTREP (albeit limited), AMCM (Airborne Mine Countermeasures), MEDEVAC (Medical Evacuation), MIO (Maritime Surveillance Operation), and even OTHT. And this helicopter could be ready for production at least a few years before the T925.

On the naval side, our biggest advantage is that almost all weapon systems and avionics to be integrated into this type of helicopter are ready or already in the naval forces' inventory. The real work is navalization of platform and system integration.
Thanks, mate! Very helpful insight.

PS:
OTHT = Over-the-horizon targeting
VERTREP = Vertical Replenishment
 

Yasar_TR

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T-925 is the only domestically produced alternative for needs such as amphibious landing and personnel transport, logistics, and VERTREP, as well as heavier class ASW/ASuW, also wide area surveillance - early warning helicopters needs. But as example like Lynx Wildcat (AW159), T-625 Gökbey is already in production and sufficiently mature so can be configure for more tactical missions and general surface and underwater combatant, and even as a fire support operations, could actually form a navalized helicopter configuration much earlier.

If the Gökbey were to be used as the basis for a navalized project, its weight of approximately 6 tons would allow it to be deployed on almost all naval platforms. In its standard configuration, it could achieve an endurance of up to 4 hours, which could be extended to 5 hours with external tanks. With its low maintenance and initial acquisition costs, it could be ordered in much larger numbers. Its lower noise and vibration profile, along with its dimensions providing a rapid reaction and mobility advantage, can be a highly valuable ASW helicopter. In short, it's versatile, economical, can land on any ship, and can meet very specific needs such as ASW/ASuW, SAR, VERTREP (albeit limited), AMCM (Airborne Mine Countermeasures), MEDEVAC (Medical Evacuation), MIO (Maritime Surveillance Operation), and even OTHT. And this helicopter could be ready for production at least a few years before the T925.

On the naval side, our biggest advantage is that almost all weapon systems and avionics to be integrated into this type of helicopter are ready or already in the naval forces' inventory. The real work is navalization of platform and system integration.
Good insight. But to add, it has to be remembered that a navalised Gokbey can not carry 3 lightweight torpedoes like a Seahawk SH60/MH60. Also can not carry depth charges, sonobuoys and torpedoes all at the same time like a Seahawk.
For Gokbey to be used for ASW and ASUW, it needs extensive redesigning with addition of special wings to carry external weapons.
 
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Ripley

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The problem is, T925 doesn't exist.
2023 mockup had given me hibbie jibbies when I haven’t seen rear ramp but was hoping that it could be altered. And as it was scaled down to Black Hawk’ish’ segment, my heart sank. Apparently not a priority. Haven’t been hearing much about it other than PR statements.
Havanda su dövüyorlar! (Beating around the bush).
 

dBSPL

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We need to prioritize the existing platforms we have, ensuring they produce optimum benefit, even if they aren't ideal solutions. In fact, some needs, especially in terms of sea-air platforms, have become so urgent that this is probably the best approach. This way, we can reduce the urgent need to a more manageable level and then, in the second phase, move on to the actual 'ideal solutions'. Aside from the accumulated needs on the rotary-wing side, as far as we understand, another bottleneck will be on the fixed-wing side due to the MUGEM rush. There, we might wait an average of 15 years for an aircraft to be developed from the KAAN platform, or a solution could be developed from the Hürjet platform to prevent MUGEM from being without an aircraft from the moment it first lands at sea. This process, even with a new engine configuration, would probably take half as long.

Just like the T625 Gökbey can be created a 'backbone' effect in our helicopter ecosystem, Hürjet could be the most cost-effective and fastest 'Naval Aviation' solution, specially for MUGEM.

Let's consider a hypothetical scenario: If we upgrade the Hürjet from the 17.7k lbf F404 to the Eurojet EJ200 (20.2k lbf), the aircraft not only gains a 15% thrust increase but also may achieves a weight-to-thrust ratio of 1.10+, enabling almost full-load (3.4t+ payload) STOBAR takeoff capability. This would place the aircraft a notch above competitors like the Tejas Navy or FA-50. If the structural weight increase can be kept to a minimum by using advanced composite technologies (such as thermoplastic composites) in the fuselage, this could be enough to make it a ramp-assisted takeoff aircraft with a very good payload ratio.

Beyond the engine upgrade, this "Hürjet-D (EJ200)" configuration may redefine the LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) class with several high-end performance metrics: With a climb rate potentially exceeding 50,000+ fpm (at sea level, clean configuration) and a +8g maneuver limit (after the aircraft has dropped its ammunition or in air-to-air configuration), Hürjet-D would not just be a trainer but a lethal dogfighter. In a naval environment, this means a much faster response time for Interception and Combat Air Patrol (CAP) missions compared to its peers with superior energy management.

MUM-T Role: The tandem-seat configuration is a strategic asset. While the front pilot handles the flight, the rear cockpit officer acts as a Tactical Drone Controller. Managing 2 or 3 Kızılelma-II or Anka-3 "Loyal Wingmen" transforms a single Hürjet into a strike package with massive stand-off firepower. Electronic Warfare & Relay Node: With a 3,000 kg+ payload, Hürjet-D can carry advanced EW pods and data-link relays. It can stay outside the enemy's AD bubble while directing its stealth UCAVs into the heat of battle, effectively serving as a mini-AWACS and a command-and-control hub for the carrier group with external fuel tanks support.

A hypothetical MUGEM air group:
12-14x Hürjet Naval (EJ200 + AESA Murad)
14-20x Kızılelma / Anka-3 variants
10-12x TB-3 & T625-Naval helis
This mix creates a "Robotic-Heavy Air Wing" that offers a sortie rate and attrition tolerance that traditional carrier wings (like the UK’s or France’s) might struggle to match in high-intensity, asymmetric scenarios.

Actually transitioning to the Hürjet platform for MUGEM is not a "downgrade" or a compromise; it is a fast-track to a new doctrine. By utilizing more powerfull but similar form factor and dimension engine like EJ200 and the platform's innate agility, Turkiye can field a naval power that is ready years before a KAAN-Naval variant, while creating a formidable export product for other "Light Carrier" operators like Spain.

Just like as we previously suggested that Gökbey can became the backbone of our rotary-wing fleet, a Navalized Hürjet could be the silent hero that makes MUGEM a reality from day one.
 

TR_123456

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We need to prioritize the existing platforms we have, ensuring they produce optimum benefit, even if they aren't ideal solutions. In fact, some needs, especially in terms of sea-air platforms, have become so urgent that this is probably the best approach. This way, we can reduce the urgent need to a more manageable level and then, in the second phase, move on to the actual 'ideal solutions'. Aside from the accumulated needs on the rotary-wing side, as far as we understand, another bottleneck will be on the fixed-wing side due to the MUGEM rush. There, we might wait an average of 15 years for an aircraft to be developed from the KAAN platform, or a solution could be developed from the Hürjet platform to prevent MUGEM from being without an aircraft from the moment it first lands at sea. This process, even with a new engine configuration, would probably take half as long.

Just like the T625 Gökbey can be created a 'backbone' effect in our helicopter ecosystem, Hürjet could be the most cost-effective and fastest 'Naval Aviation' solution, specially for MUGEM.

Let's consider a hypothetical scenario: If we upgrade the Hürjet from the 17.7k lbf F404 to the Eurojet EJ200 (20.2k lbf), the aircraft not only gains a 15% thrust increase but also may achieves a weight-to-thrust ratio of 1.10+, enabling almost full-load (3.4t+ payload) STOBAR takeoff capability. This would place the aircraft a notch above competitors like the Tejas Navy or FA-50. If the structural weight increase can be kept to a minimum by using advanced composite technologies (such as thermoplastic composites) in the fuselage, this could be enough to make it a ramp-assisted takeoff aircraft with a very good payload ratio.

Beyond the engine upgrade, this "Hürjet-D (EJ200)" configuration may redefine the LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) class with several high-end performance metrics: With a climb rate potentially exceeding 50,000+ fpm (at sea level, clean configuration) and a +8g maneuver limit (after the aircraft has dropped its ammunition or in air-to-air configuration), Hürjet-D would not just be a trainer but a lethal dogfighter. In a naval environment, this means a much faster response time for Interception and Combat Air Patrol (CAP) missions compared to its peers with superior energy management.

MUM-T Role: The tandem-seat configuration is a strategic asset. While the front pilot handles the flight, the rear cockpit officer acts as a Tactical Drone Controller. Managing 2 or 3 Kızılelma-II or Anka-3 "Loyal Wingmen" transforms a single Hürjet into a strike package with massive stand-off firepower. Electronic Warfare & Relay Node: With a 3,000 kg+ payload, Hürjet-D can carry advanced EW pods and data-link relays. It can stay outside the enemy's AD bubble while directing its stealth UCAVs into the heat of battle, effectively serving as a mini-AWACS and a command-and-control hub for the carrier group with external fuel tanks support.

A hypothetical MUGEM air group:
12-14x Hürjet Naval (EJ200 + AESA Murad)
14-20x Kızılelma / Anka-3 variants
10-12x TB-3 & T625-Naval helis
This mix creates a "Robotic-Heavy Air Wing" that offers a sortie rate and attrition tolerance that traditional carrier wings (like the UK’s or France’s) might struggle to match in high-intensity, asymmetric scenarios.

Actually transitioning to the Hürjet platform for MUGEM is not a "downgrade" or a compromise; it is a fast-track to a new doctrine. By utilizing more powerfull but similar form factor and dimension engine like EJ200 and the platform's innate agility, Turkiye can field a naval power that is ready years before a KAAN-Naval variant, while creating a formidable export product for other "Light Carrier" operators like Spain.

Just like as we previously suggested that Gökbey can became the backbone of our rotary-wing fleet, a Navalized Hürjet could be the silent hero that makes MUGEM a reality from day one.
Why no ANKA 3?
 
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