TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[TheInsider]

Aselsan's share is 3.3 million euros per tank. The unit cost of the upgrade might be around 5-6 million euros. It is a reasonable price if we consider advanced systems like APS.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656952499276771330

ASELSAN's Akkor Active Protection system tests have been published.

 

[Tornadoss]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656952499276771330

ASELSAN's Akkor Active Protection system tests have been published.

Finally, it's been a quite while since this project started but finally we got the product.

 

[TheInsider]

They are publishing test footage that I don't like. There are many hints for the trained eyes. The first thing that caught my eye is the extremely fast-burning and specially designed rocket motor. We can see many shock diamonds inside the exhaust plume. Akkor munition accelerates really fast this way Akkor can neutralize a fast effector far away (100m+) from the main platform. We are talking about milliseconds here as the footage is in slow motion. Interception happens in 7 seconds in slow motion video we can deduce real burning time, the burning rate, etc from the video.

 

[AzeriTank]

They are publishing test footage that I don't like. There are many hints for the trained eyes. The first thing that caught my eye is the extremely fast-burning and specially designed rocket motor. We can see many shock diamonds inside the exhaust plume. Akkor munition accelerates really fast this way Akkor can neutralize a fast effector far away (100m+) from the main platform. We are talking about milliseconds here as the footage is in slow motion. Interception happens in 7 seconds in slow motion video we can deduce real burning time, the burning rate, etc from the video.

they probably know that its not that easy to make it

 

[Combat-Master]

They are publishing test footage that I don't like. There are many hints for the trained eyes. The first thing that caught my eye is the extremely fast-burning and specially designed rocket motor. We can see many shock diamonds inside the exhaust plume. Akkor munition accelerates really fast this way Akkor can neutralize a fast effector far away (100m+) from the main platform. We are talking about milliseconds here as the footage is in slow motion. Interception happens in 7 seconds in slow motion video we can deduce real burning time, the burning rate, etc from the video.

Well, it's a good thing the clip they shared has been manipulated isn't it...

 

[zio]

two different

 

[Radonsider]

two different

?

 

[Brave Janissary]

Mechanized warfare is targeting is supporting heavy gun support to infantry on battlefield and destroy enemies heavy gun capability.
I think a country like turkey who have a huge experience on unmanned and autonamous warfare can be come with new perspective on this field.

Making 60 tonnes 1500 hp , 120mm tank is great but his time is outdate. When we are complete to production of altay in this standart, altay would be Leopard 2a4 when compared Franco-German Mgcs, abrams next gen, improved armata etc.

Field of our advantages : Electronics, software, and maybe armour.
Field of our disadvantage : Tank Gun, More Penetrartor Apfsds Ammo, and of course powerpack.

Penetration and attacking power is different story.

But defence and mobility is more related than others.

Just because we cant add a enough armour for protecting 4 crew of tanks just because its overweight and our powerpack capabilities is limited.

So

We need a kick off crews from the tank. And add him a enough firepower to penetrate enemies best tank.

Fully Autonomous unmanned main battle tanks is still dream for medium period.

Just because detecting and opening fire stage is acceptable with help of sensors and software but Autonomous drive is still problematic due earths changeable surface and environment.

So

One (only driver) or two manned tandem (driver + gunner) tank+ unmanned turret is more logical from my side for short period.

One crew gives us a more less surface for armouring and thats will decrease to weight of tank and tanks need a lower powered powerpack than old ones.

Nowadays commander and gunner can commanding a tank far away from tank in a 8x8x8 commanding vehicle.

I mean one manned and tracked, 120-130mm low profile unmanned autoloader version of this tank

and

A 8x8x8 Tank off-far front Tank Command Vehicles with Comm Antennas

4x gunner and 2x commander.

 

[YeşilVatan]

I'm throwing this out there:

Some kind of advanced AI and sensor fusion would allow tanks to operate with just one man crew. This way you may have a human making all the important decisions, while easily protect the crew and the tank with a lot more armor.

This is futuristic of course, but why not in the, say, 2040s? If the commander can use the vehicle like a it was a videogame, then it's not even a competition. I would argue it would be much, much better than the completely unmanned tanks. Especially if you are in a setting where response time is measured by miliseconds like an urban warfare environments. UGV signal or control delays or shouting for the driver to back up seems to be our only options, a commander who can control the vehicle like he is playing warthunder would wreck the opposition who has to coordinate as a crew.

It's only a thought though, it just pooped into my mind.

 

[Heartbang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1660030840494227456

Imagine the indigenous equivalent to this on our Altay, downing ATGM's

 

[AzeriTank]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1660030840494227456

Imagine the indigenous equivalent to this on our Altay, downing ATGM's

most probably they think of it, its not a hard tech to be honest, Turkey got this tech with Korkut already

 

[Baljak]

Hyundai WIA (then Hyundai Precision Industry) gained experience in gun-making from Rheinmetall during the upgrade-phase of K1A1 in the 90s. A license-built Rh 120 mm shorter L44 smoothbore gun called CN03 (KM256 military designation).

After that they were able to independently develop the bigger caliber CN08 120 mm L55 smoothbore gun. Chrome-plated and with an even higher muzzle-velocity than Rh 120 mm L55.

Main construction difference to MKE 120 mm L55 gun is the missing breech opening motor and automatic feeding magazine system for autoloader mechanism. It has the same muzzle velocity like the Korean cannon. Hyundai WIA transferred technology to MKE during the Altay development project and helped modifying according to Turkish specs. Afaik, the Altay ToT/license-package includes unrestricted export for Türkiye (good for you guys).

Besides all technicalities: Rheinmetall's new Rh 120 mm L55A1 gun for Leopard 2 A7 is designed for higher pressure and provides higher performance. A real beast!

Most important factors for MBT and SPH guns are barrel production procedures, quality of steel, chrome-plating etc. In that regard Germans are simply top-notch. Excellence and experience mastered through cannon manufacturing since 1889!

Hmm.. I know that the source of the content you mention is roughly from wikipedia and namuwiki, but I would like to let you know a few things that you are mistaken about.

Rheinmetall did not participate in the development of the K1 MBT, which was called Korea's first domestic MBT. Rheinmetall's contribution to the K1 project was to develop the K1 ARV based on the K1's chassis.

One of the most widely misrepresented facts is that the M256 is often referred to as the licensed version of the Rheinmetall RH120, which is precisely a derivative of the U.S. Watervliet Arsenal (WVA)'s purchase of technology and licenses from Rheinmetall, changing the structure of barrels and mounts. In addition, like the MKE 120 mm gun, the M256 is monopolized by Watervliet Arsenal in the United States for design, licensing, and export rights. This means that Rheinmetall has no right to exercise its license and export rights to the M256.

M256

RH120

CN03 and KM256 are quite different in the structure of the mount except for the gun barrel. The biggest difference between CN03 and KM256 is the weight reduction of the mount. The name KM256 also stands for "Korean Made 256", not "Korean M256".

According to the Defense Acquisition Program Administration's Korean Defense Specifications (KDS), Korean defense companies name KM (Korean Made) for licensed products from abroad or defense parts made based on technology introduced from abroad. However, from 2009, the name KM began to be designated for defense products developed with its own technology.

As you mentioned, it is also true that Hyundai Rotem, which participated as a technical support provider in the Altay development project, has transferred licenses for electronic equipment, main guns, armor packages, neutron shielding liners, and track systems to Otokar.

Still, some Korean military forums claim that the Turks stole the K2's technology, which is only a one-sided claim by Korean nationalists, and in 2007, Hyundai Rotem and Otokar transferred licenses, including export rights to major components, through legitimate contracts. Their claim of stealing K2's technology is an insult to the Turkish engineers of Otokar who were involved in the development of Altay at the time.

 

[Chocopie]

Hmm.. I know that the source of the content you mention is roughly from wikipedia and namuwiki, but I would like to let you know a few things that you are mistaken about.

Rheinmetall did not participate in the development of the K1 MBT, which was called Korea's first domestic MBT. Rheinmetall's contribution to the K1 project was to develop the K1 ARV based on the K1's chassis.

One of the most widely misrepresented facts is that the M256 is often referred to as the licensed version of the Rheinmetall RH120, which is precisely a derivative of the U.S. Watervliet Arsenal (WVA)'s purchase of technology and licenses from Rheinmetall, changing the structure of barrels and mounts. In addition, like the MKE 120 mm gun, the M256 is monopolized by Watervliet Arsenal in the United States for design, licensing, and export rights. This means that Rheinmetall has no right to exercise its license and export rights to the M256.

View attachment 57864
M256

View attachment 57865
RH120

CN03 and KM256 are quite different in the structure of the mount except for the gun barrel. The biggest difference between CN03 and KM256 is the weight reduction of the mount. The name KM256 also stands for "Korean Made 256", not "Korean M256".

According to the Defense Acquisition Program Administration's Korean Defense Specifications (KDS), Korean defense companies name KM (Korean Made) for licensed products from abroad or defense parts made based on technology introduced from abroad. However, from 2009, the name KM began to be designated for defense products developed with its own technology.

As you mentioned, it is also true that Hyundai Rotem, which participated as a technical support provider in the Altay development project, has transferred licenses for electronic equipment, main guns, armor packages, neutron shielding liners, and track systems to Otokar.

Still, some Korean military forums claim that the Turks stole the K2's technology, which is only a one-sided claim by Korean nationalists, and in 2007, Hyundai Rotem and Otokar transferred licenses, including export rights to major components, through legitimate contracts. Their claim of stealing K2's technology is an insult to the Turkish engineers of Otokar who were involved in the development of Altay at the time.

Thanks for the info! I only knew so far, that the US M256 isn‘t a 1:1 copy of the Rh 120 mm/L44. Thought the KM256 licensed gun included a Rheinmetall involvement.

 

[sozturk]

Okay, you can see that the front is less armored - the sides and the top - have similar strengths and classes, right? I only ask because it seems like the whole Leo 1T project was wasted money.
The integration of a more powerful engine would therefore be nonsensical, in your opinion?
Aren't we able to raise more M60s and Leo 1Ts - similar to Israel - to Sabra level? Or do we lack the technology here? Hardly - apart from the engine, are control systems, towers, cannons, and armor within the scope of the possible?

Hello, yes, it seems like we have some gaps in technology as I observed. However, there are brilliant talents in our country who can overcome these challenges. Unfortunately, it seems that these companies have started to undervalue these individuals, which causes our technology to lag behind a bit. But I am sure that work is still ongoing in this field. I believe that all of these things you mentioned will be developed.

 

[AzeriTank]

Hmm.. I know that the source of the content you mention is roughly from wikipedia and namuwiki, but I would like to let you know a few things that you are mistaken about.

Rheinmetall did not participate in the development of the K1 MBT, which was called Korea's first domestic MBT. Rheinmetall's contribution to the K1 project was to develop the K1 ARV based on the K1's chassis.

One of the most widely misrepresented facts is that the M256 is often referred to as the licensed version of the Rheinmetall RH120, which is precisely a derivative of the U.S. Watervliet Arsenal (WVA)'s purchase of technology and licenses from Rheinmetall, changing the structure of barrels and mounts. In addition, like the MKE 120 mm gun, the M256 is monopolized by Watervliet Arsenal in the United States for design, licensing, and export rights. This means that Rheinmetall has no right to exercise its license and export rights to the M256.

View attachment 57864
M256

View attachment 57865
RH120

CN03 and KM256 are quite different in the structure of the mount except for the gun barrel. The biggest difference between CN03 and KM256 is the weight reduction of the mount. The name KM256 also stands for "Korean Made 256", not "Korean M256".

According to the Defense Acquisition Program Administration's Korean Defense Specifications (KDS), Korean defense companies name KM (Korean Made) for licensed products from abroad or defense parts made based on technology introduced from abroad. However, from 2009, the name KM began to be designated for defense products developed with its own technology.

As you mentioned, it is also true that Hyundai Rotem, which participated as a technical support provider in the Altay development project, has transferred licenses for electronic equipment, main guns, armor packages, neutron shielding liners, and track systems to Otokar.

Still, some Korean military forums claim that the Turks stole the K2's technology, which is only a one-sided claim by Korean nationalists, and in 2007, Hyundai Rotem and Otokar transferred licenses, including export rights to major components, through legitimate contracts. Their claim of stealing K2's technology is an insult to the Turkish engineers of Otokar who were involved in the development of Altay at the time.

to be honest i see it a lot in Korean comments, seems like they made the whole population to believe it, you guys can check it too), They even say KF21 was coppied by Indonesians and was given to Turkey, so thats why Turkey is able to develop jets, but this is a different topic,

however not a single person ask if it was a copy, why it took Turkey this long?
Korea was nice, it helped to design Altay years ago, also offered the local made products to be used in Altay probably, but as Turkey already spent more than a decade and half now(15+ years), obviously its enough to localize those things.
Can you guys check if Korea use the pallet from Germany or you make it yourself. as Turkey mentioned that the pallet was German and it was nationalized, it was interesting that who else made it? Also the 120mm shell compartment that doesnt kill the crew members, it was also German.

 

[Chocopie]

to be honest i see it a lot in Korean comments, seems like they made the whole population to believe it, you guys can check it too), They even say KF21 was coppied by Indonesians and was given to Turkey, so thats why Turkey is able to develop jets, but this is a different topic,

however not a single person ask if it was a copy, why it took Turkey this long?
Korea was nice, it helped to design Altay years ago, also offered the local made products to be used in Altay probably, but as Turkey already spent more than a decade and half now(15+ years), obviously its enough to localize those things.
Can you guys check if Korea use the pallet from Germany or you make it yourself. as Turkey mentioned that the pallet was German and it was nationalized, it was interesting that who else made it? Also the 120mm shell compartment that doesnt kill the crew members, it was also German.

Afaik over 90% of K2 are domestic parts. Altay and K2 doesn't use 1:1 common parts because of many differences: turret design with ammo compartment (K2 has bustle-type autoloader), chassis with different driver's position and number of wheels etc. Now after a decade the differences of the Otokar prototype with the BMC Altay version are even greater. What exactly do you mean with "pallet", the ISU with Dynamic Track Tension System or the tank wheels themselves?

Don't take uninformed and ultra-nationalistic troll commenters as representative for the Korean population. Most Koreans don't care much about defense topics besides news about homegrown weapon systems or successful export sales.

There's an army of ultra-nationalistic Turkish keyboard warriors posting ridiculous things as well,
I honestly don't take them serious either and think of Korean and Turkish trolls what they are: total idiots they could build an own club of chest-beating gorillas.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669370853920759810

The M60A3 Main Battle Tank, modernized with the Modular Armored Tower (MZK) developed by Roketsan, has been delivered to the Turkish Armed Forces!

I don't see any APS such as akkor-lite/Kama, or the pulat on it. Does anyone remember the cost of the modernization of m603 tanks?

 

[Tornadoss]

The M60A3 Main Battle Tank, modernized with the Modular Armored Tower (MZK) developed by Roketsan, has been delivered to the Turkish Armed Forces!

I don't see any APS such as akkor-lite/Kama, or the pulat on it. Does anyone remember the cost of the modernization of m603 tanks?

No era-nera package on the hull?

 

[Stimpy75]

And no FCS...my guess would be to wait for IDEF