TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Saithan]

for example, Only China, South Korea and Turkiye are able to make Lion batteries from scrach of metal

I did not know that. Türkiye was able to make Lion battery from scratch.

 

[AzeriTank]

I did not know that. Türkiye was able to make Lion battery from scratch.

head of Aspilsan(which makes these batteries) that it also said one of these 3 countries that able to make it from scrach

 

[Zafer]

head of Aspilsan(which makes these batteries) that it also said one of these 3 countries that able to make it from scrach

I doubt it. AFAIK Aspilsan import the chemicals. They will most certainly try to make them domestically but there is no indication of it having been achieved as yet, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[boredaf]

I hadn't seen this version of Sarp before, Sarp 25 mm, looks really compact, can be (optionally) fed from within the tank (well, armoured vehicle) and can be integrated to external sensors. It *is* heavy, but, with 25 mm ATOM, this could be a great solution to drone threat.

APS is good against ATGMs, which you wouldn't expect to encounter more than one or two at a time, but just yesterday I watched video of a tank getting attack by more than 10 drones one after another (it was one of Russia's turtle tanks with fuck all situational awareness), and it is only going to get worse.

I also like this Mete launcher a lot, if Roketsan can do what they did to Cirit and make Mete capable of engaging aerial targets, this could also be a great option. Can't remember the exact specs but Barkan is a small UGV and that launcher doesn't look like it would take too much space.

 

[Tornadoss]

I hadn't seen this version of Sarp before, Sarp 25 mm, looks really compact, can be (optionally) fed from within the tank (well, armoured vehicle) and can be integrated to external sensors. It *is* heavy, but, with 25 mm ATOM, this could be a great solution to drone threat.

View attachment 77875

APS is good against ATGMs, which you wouldn't expect to encounter more than one or two at a time, but just yesterday I watched video of a tank getting attack by more than 10 drones one after another (it was one of Russia's turtle tanks with fuck all situational awareness), and it is only going to get worse.

I also like this Mete launcher a lot, if Roketsan can do what they did to Cirit and make Mete capable of engaging aerial targets, this could also be a great option. Can't remember the exact specs but Barkan is a small UGV and that launcher doesn't look like it would take too much space.

View attachment 77876

Can there be a concept such as land version of loyal wingman, some UGV's coupled with tanks which can carry some sensors and anti UAV weapons? Maybe something like OTOKAR Alkar UGV?

 

[boredaf]

Can there be a concept such as land version of loyal wingman, some UGV's coupled with tanks which can carry some sensors and anti UAV weapons? Maybe something like OTOKAR Alkar UGV?

You mean Alpar? There maybe issues with speed or range, but other than that I can't see why not. In fact, I think it'll be preferrable in the future. A tank with unmanned turret and one of the crew commanding (not directly controlling) UGVs around them could be quite effective.

These are proposed roles for Alpar, and I can see most of them (except for logistics and relay) being helpful to a tank.

https://defense.otokar.com.tr/OtokarSavunma/media/Otokar-Savunma/brochure/alpar-en-ap05eb-25.pdf

 

[UkroTurk]

Sarp 25 mm, looks really compact,

I totally agree with you about that MBTs must have counter drone weapons as American are planning to add however What's wrong with Venom 30mm? Why heavy , powerful 25mm caliber?

 

[boredaf]

I totally agree with you about that MBTs must have counter drone weapons as American are planning to add however What's wrong with Venom 30mm? Why heavy , powerful 25mm caliber?

Nothing at all, I only mentioned that because I saw the Sarp 25, and I believe being able to reload from within the tank if necessary (even if just one more case) could be important. Plus, I trust Aselsan with their turrets and electronics more than I trust Unirobotics with their turret and 25 mm ATOM is ready now. Oh, and Venom is not that much lighter than 25 mm cannons Aselsan mentions in the brochure but I believe its recoil is far less than others.

 

[begturan]

Friends, shooting down drones isn't difficult; the challenge is detecting and tracking them. There's not a single battlefield-proven system in the world, including the ones we've developed. Currently, the most practical solution is to train soldiers to intercept drones with shotguns and then launch counter-drone attacks.

Detecting and stopping bird-sized drones that use fiber optic cables and approach from low altitudes with automated systems is currently near impossible.

All of these weapons and detection systems have been tested and developed in the field, and this will continue until the best solution is found.

 

[UkroTurk]

Nothing at all, I only mentioned that because I saw the Sarp 25, and I believe being able to reload from within the tank if necessary (even if just one more case) could be important. Plus, I trust Aselsan with their turrets and electronics more than I trust Unirobotics with their turret and 25 mm ATOM is ready now. Oh, and Venom is not that much lighter than 25 mm cannons Aselsan mentions in the brochure but I believe its recoil is far less than others.

25mm is very strong caliber, its recoil much more than 30x113. Also 30 x113 mm gives more ammunition capacity which is very important for CIWS.

Venom cannon really has less recoil and I don't think it weighs 1 ton!

 

[boredaf]

25mm is very strong caliber, its recoil much more than 30x113. Also 30 x113 mm gives more ammunition capacity which is very important for CIWS.

Venom cannon really has less recoil and I don't think it weighs 1 ton!

Cannon itself doesn't weigh 1 ton mate, it is the weight of the whole ensemble. In fact, I was wrong, all three cannons Aselsan mentions, (Oerlikon KBA, M242 Bushmaster and M811) weigh around 10 kg less than Venom. Venom weighs 122 and all 3 cannon weigh around 110.

And, I don't understand what you mean by 25mm is stronger with more recoil from 30mm? 25 mm has larger diameter but 30 mm is longer, I wouldn't expect that much difference that would make 25 mm to have much more recoil.

 

[UkroTurk]

Cannon itself doesn't weigh 1 ton mate, it is the weight of the whole ensemble. In fact, I was wrong, all three cannons Aselsan mentions, (Oerlikon KBA, M242 Bushmaster and M811) weigh around 10 kg less than Venom. Venom weighs 122 and all 3 cannon weigh around 110.

And, I don't understand what you mean by 25mm is stronger with more recoil from 30mm? 25 mm has larger diameter but 30 mm is longer, I wouldn't expect that much difference that would make 25 mm to have much more recoil.

I meant also turret.
25mm KBA or variants have very low rate of fire for CIWS. 30 mm VENOMnis really rapidö

25x137mm vs 30x113mm
İnstead of 100 25mm round, you could have min 150 30mm.

25mm cartridge has higher velocity, has more internal pressure. 25mm is from IFVs.
30x113 for aircrafts.
Totally two different calibers.

 

[AzeriTank]

Can there be a concept such as land version of loyal wingman, some UGV's coupled with tanks which can carry some sensors and anti UAV weapons? Maybe something like OTOKAR Alkar UGV?

Roketsan has already started to use that concept as you can see in this video.

25mm RWS weight is 1 ton, which is not bad. i wish they could put it on top of Altay, or atleast 30/113mm rws. It can destroy a lot of FPV drones by getting info from the radar in a tank. in case of multiple attacks at the same time, APS could help it. I also wish they add more APS, may be 2 front and 2 behind, but today, there was a news that APS system in the front could damage cameras after its lunch, so at least i know now the reason.

 

[AzeriTank]

Cannon itself doesn't weigh 1 ton mate, it is the weight of the whole ensemble. In fact, I was wrong, all three cannons Aselsan mentions, (Oerlikon KBA, M242 Bushmaster and M811) weigh around 10 kg less than Venom. Venom weighs 122 and all 3 cannon weigh around 110.

And, I don't understand what you mean by 25mm is stronger with more recoil from 30mm? 25 mm has larger diameter but 30 mm is longer, I wouldn't expect that much difference that would make 25 mm to have much more recoil.

30/113 is not longer than the 25mm. also the production capacity is important, almost all big weapon producers in Turkiye is able to make 25mm guns, but so far only Canik making 30/113(soon Aselsan Konya) and production capacity is mentioned recently that 500 a year and they want to increase it to 1000

 

[Saithan]

We only have capacity to produce 500 bullets a year ? I hope that'w not true.

At least it seems we all agree that tanks need a compact rws to kill drones.

How much space is needed for a automated or semi automated rws ?

 

[UkroTurk]

We only have capacity to produce 500 bullets a year ? I hope that'w not true.

At least it seems we all agree that tanks need a compact rws to kill drones.

How much space is needed for a automated or semi automated rws ?

He meant production of cannon, not bullets( ammunition)

Btw Trakon turret plus 30mm cannon plus ammo would weight max 300 kg

 

[boredaf]

Btw Trakon turret plus 30mm cannon plus ammo would weight max 300 kg

Trakon alone weighs less than 400 kg, with Venom but without ammunition less than 550 kg, would be close to 650 with ammo. Lighter than Sarp, but not as light as that.

https://admin.unirobotics.com.tr/assets/cddd00f1-3d87-494c-83bf-9dcb42332943

25mm KBA or variants have very low rate of fire for CIWS. 30 mm VENOMnis really rapid

You don't need a thousand rounds a minute while using air burst rounds against plastic drones that are not particularly fast. A drone with top speed of several hundred kms an hour would barely move before a 25mm ATOM bullet that can move 1.1 km a second. Besides, I'm looking at wikipedia and the difference between them doesn't seem all that much? Even 100 rounds per minute would be more than enough against cheap drones.

 

[TR_123456]

I am in favour of a dedicated tank support vehicle against drones. Could be also an UGV. Like for example one for every four tanks.

Why when the mbt itself has counter meassures like a 12.7 heavy machine gun?
Btw,the Altay mbt is not a stand alone system.

 

[boredaf]

Why when the mbt itself has counter meassures like a 12.7 heavy machine gun?

Machine guns are not good at countering drones mate, you have to spray and pray that you'll hit the drone. You can see it in videos from Ukraine, most effective things have been shotguns for soldiers and equivalent of that would be airburst rounds for a tank. Especially as drones are getting more numerous and tanks are getting attack by multiple small drones one after another and this is before countries start investing properly in swarm capabilities.

Even birdshot is more than enough to take drones down (range is a problem, of course), so, an airburst round creating a cloud of a thousand small steel or tungsten pieces would be more than enough.

 

[UkroTurk]

guns are not good at countering drones mate, you have to spray

But you obsessed with slow cannon and
heavy big caliber

air burst rounds against plastic drones that are not particularly fast.

Anyway I quit and give microphone to General Dynamics

Abrams X with 30x113mm cannon.

Americans know their shits unlike the Brits

ABramsX

AbramsX MBT Main Batlle Tank technology demonstrator GDLS United States technical data fact sheet pictures video

www.armyrecognition.com