TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Cabatli_TR]

So no factory till 2026. What can I say, great?

Considering that even the Korean engined Altay wont enter production before 2024-25, we can actually say that there is still time for investment

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Germany can spend whatever it likes. Germany will probably pay 30 million euros for a UAV like TB2 if Germans companies develop it.

It's not about the German extravagance, it's about the cost of procuring 17 Thropy APS and integrating it into an already manufactured tank. Based on this figure, it is possible to calculate unit cost and compare the cost of Altay investments, overall logistic support, engine developments to Turkish taxpayers in a healthier way.

 

[TheInsider]

Sure we will have 250 T2 Altays in our hands by 2031.

Akkor APS is not cheap but we are not talking about millions of euros here. Lol, we are nowhere near that amount.

 

[Anastasius]

BTW we can kiss goodbye to the Altay factory and tank excellence center. As the new admin of BMC made clear they won't be investing in a new factory. BMC is demolishing the Karasu tank factory construction field.

Why?

 

[Zafer]

Why?

The factory field is a flood land and may not be very well suited to heavy industries among other things.

 

[Tornadoss]

Why?

Well, it seems incompetent dimwits oddly didn't make any feasibility study to check the land is suitable or not before the construction of such factory, so it's not a suitable area to construct factory. Or it's just a lame excuse.

 

[Ravenman]

This project is our most important red apple and even more important than the TFX.

A national 100% domestic battle tank would uplift all the sectors of the economy because the parts coming from every structure of the industry.

1 Altay create some jobs.

10 Altays creates more jobs and healthy firms.

100 Altays creates a lot of jobs and circulate your industrial sectors.

1000+ Altays creates thousands of jobs and lift your economy to the skies.

Countries with domestic tanks have structured a massife defence industry for theirselves and created a militairy economy as a iron wall-part of their real economy (US, Russia, S.Korea, France, Israel, Germany etc).

 

[UkroTurk]

Before heavy MBTs, we have lethal Gun Carrier Platforms with ATGMs however Greek Leo's are to be upgraded with APSs.

So Armed Forces of Türkiye need to concentrate how to defeat APS.

IMHO , Mobilized powerful EMPs is more important than MBTs.

China's new microwave weapon can disable missiles and paralyze tanks

A weapon that uses microwaves to knock out electronic equipment wins a top Chinese science prize.

www.popsci.com

Could Laser make blind APS or burn its antennas?

 

[Heartbang]

how to defeat APS.

there's a limit to the amount of APS that a tank can carry. just make sure you can win the attrition war, and the APS problem will sort itself out.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Kinetic weapons are the real APS killers. Trophy class APS do not have an answer to sabot rounds.
155mm howitzers and 127mm naval guns can fire Hyper Velocity rounds.
This is what the answer is for APS fitted on any tank. These HPVs are precision guided and would be the ideal solution for long range (80-90km) artillery targeting tanks that are fitted with modern APS.

https://www.baesystems.com/en-media/uploadFile/20210404062224/1434555443512.pdf

Navy Quietly Fires 20 Hyper Velocity Projectiles Through Destroyer’s Deckgun - USNI News

Last summer USS Dewey (DDG-105) fired 20 hyper velocity projectiles (HVP) from a standard Mk 45 5-inch deck gun in a quiet experiment that’s set to add new utility to the weapon found on almost every U.S. warship, officials familiar with the test have told USNI News. The test, conducted by the...

news.usni.org

$86,000 + 5,600 MPH = Hyper Velocity Missile Defense - Breaking Defense

CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: The Pentagon’s Strategic Capabilities Office will test-fire a radical new missile defense system in less than a year. The Hyper Velocity Projectile, a supersonic artillery round, is fired from ordinary cannon at 5,600 miles per hour and can kill...

breakingdefense.com

At Mach 7+ speeds these rounds will be near impossible to stop. This is the future of artillery. That is what we need to develop.
These rounds can stop any tank and armoured vehicle and in addition can be used as an effective air defence systems from land or sea, as they can hit almost any platform in the air including ballistic missiles and jet aircrafts if incorporated in to a relevant radar system.

Hypervelocity Gun Weapon System (which comprises the HVP itself plus cannon, fire control, and radar) won’t replace high-cost, high-performance missiles, but it could provide an additional layer of defense that’s cheaper, more mobile, and much harder for an enemy to destroy.

 

[Combat-Master]

Akkor is capable to reduce effects of an penetrator rod, with its large blast filled with tungsten fragments capable of shattering rods and or cause a rod to veer off trajectory/ cause tumbling.

A layered APS system would be best, Akkor and Pulat combined solution. Would be a beast.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Akkor is capable to reduce effects of an penetrator rod, with its large blast filled with tungsten fragments capable of shattering rods and or cause a rod to veer off trajectory/ cause tumbling.

A layered APS system would be best, Akkor and Pulat combined solution. Would be a beast.

There are rumours of Russian Afghanit being able to stop Depleted Uranium tipped Sabot rounds. But like with most Russian stuff it needs to be seen to be believed.
Trophy developers are still trying on the case of sabot defence. But they accept that it is very challenging to stop a 4-5 Mach Sabot as explained in below Janes Defence article.

IAV 2021: Rafael details challenges of defeating APFSDS long rod penetrators with APS

Defeating advanced anti-armour rounds with active protection systems (APSs) would mark a step change in vehicle defences, but such technology must still overcome notable...

www.janes.com

An HVP round however, would be travelling at 7+Mach and would be more of a challenge to track and stop especially if it is a top attack class round .
There are trials using consecutive rounds fired at a tank , first one being a dummy and the second being the real tank killer. So as APS s become more and more capable the weapons become smarter as well.
Akkor being developed so that it is having a capability like you explain is nice to hear. May be, that is why it is still not finished and integrated in to any of our tanks.

 

[Combat-Master]

There are rumours of Russian Afghanit being able to stop Depleted Uranium tipped Sabot rounds. But like with most Russian stuff it needs to be seen to be believed.
Trophy developers are still trying on the case of sabot defence. But they accept that it is very challenging to stop a 4-5 Mach Sabot as explained in below Janes Defence article.

IAV 2021: Rafael details challenges of defeating APFSDS long rod penetrators with APS

Defeating advanced anti-armour rounds with active protection systems (APSs) would mark a step change in vehicle defences, but such technology must still overcome notable...

www.janes.com

An HVP round however, would be travelling at 7+Mach and would be more of a challenge to track and stop especially if it is a top attack class round .
There are trials using consecutive rounds fired at a tank , first one being a dummy and the second being the real tank killer. So as APS s become more and more capable the weapons become smarter as well.
Akkor being developed so that it is having a capability like you explain is nice to hear. May be, that is why it is still not finished and integrated in to any of our tanks.

Trophy is basically motorised claymore that's directed towards a threat, it has zero blast effect on target with the pellets losing much of it's energy to be of any effect to KE weapons.
There were some talks between Rafael and Elbit Sys on a collaboration where Trophy and Iron Fist could be further developed to work in tandem, but nothing has come of it. Iron fist was touted as being able to defeat KE threats, they have test videos on Iron Fist engaging penetrator rods.

The cycle of tank is going to be interesting to see, but - I don't think we will see any substantial changes till a major war happens.

 

[UkroTurk]

Just relaying on kinetic penetrators, you all seem to neglect the role of man portable ATGMs.


Edit:

İmagine what would Ukraine do, if most of their Russian tanks had APS?

APSs of Greek,Israel, YS armies make our shoulder launched ATGMs useless, can you notice the big threat?

Need to have some EMP weapons even compact ones.

 

[Tornadoss]

Just relaying on kinetic penetrators, you all seem to neglect the role of man portable ATGMs.
İmagine what would Ukraine do, if most of their tanks had APS?

APSs of Greek,Israel, YS armies make our shoulder launched ATGMs useless, can you notice the big threat?

Need to have some EMP weapons even compact ones.

Was Zaslon a project that was never implemented on UA tanks?

 

[CAN_TR]

Even if you can't stop the KE penetrator entirely, a layered APS and modern ERA combination at least could distract the trajectory of the penetrator and that alone could guarantee the survival of the Tank and it's crew.

APS is a must have for Tanks in the 21st century.

 

[UkroTurk]

Was Zaslon a project that was never implemented on UA tanks?

İ haven't heard and seen.



Could anti-drone EMP weapons confuse an antenna array of APS?

 

[TheInsider]

HPV is the future. We should have 76mm and 127mm fire support vehicles and 155mm SPA with HPV capability. Mechanized companies should have 3x 76mm IFVs while mechanized battalions have 6-9x127mm this will add another layer to the armored warfare. Those guns can provide air defense as well as direct or indirect fire support with different kinds of guided and unguided munitions. This also means distributing advance capability for a very low cost which is suitable for distributed warfare doctrine.

Distributed operations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Distributed Operations: The Evolution of Warfare in the 21st Century

The threats faced by America in the 21st century demand new innovative tactics, technologies, and doctrine. The time to introduce distributed operations is now. Despite the U.S. militarys pressing requirements for Operations IRAQI FREEDOM and ENDURING FREEDOM, it must continue to develop and...

apps.dtic.mil

 

[MarcusZidanta]

How many Leopard 2s have been fitted with PULAT active protection system?

I know all the M60T tanks have APS now, not sure about Leo2.

 

[Osman]

None of them most probably. 40 leo 2 a 4 have been modernised with add on armour