TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,360
Reactions
81 45,455
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Germany can spend whatever it likes. Germany will probably pay 30 million euros for a UAV like TB2 if Germans companies develop it.

It's not about the German extravagance, it's about the cost of procuring 17 Thropy APS and integrating it into an already manufactured tank. Based on this figure, it is possible to calculate unit cost and compare the cost of Altay investments, overall logistic support, engine developments to Turkish taxpayers in a healthier way.
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,061
Solutions
1
Reactions
34 14,465
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Sure we will have 250 T2 Altays in our hands by 2031.

Akkor APS is not cheap but we are not talking about millions of euros here. Lol, we are nowhere near that amount.
 

Anastasius

Contributor
Moderator
Azerbaijan Moderator
Messages
1,407
Reactions
5 3,123
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Azerbaijan
BTW we can kiss goodbye to the Altay factory and tank excellence center. As the new admin of BMC made clear they won't be investing in a new factory. BMC is demolishing the Karasu tank factory construction field.
Why?
 

Ravenman

Contributor
Messages
759
Reactions
1 1,528
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
This project is our most important red apple and even more important than the TFX.

A national 100% domestic battle tank would uplift all the sectors of the economy because the parts coming from every structure of the industry.

1 Altay create some jobs.

10 Altays creates more jobs and healthy firms.

100 Altays creates a lot of jobs and circulate your industrial sectors.

1000+ Altays creates thousands of jobs and lift your economy to the skies.

Countries with domestic tanks have structured a massife defence industry for theirselves and created a militairy economy as a iron wall-part of their real economy (US, Russia, S.Korea, France, Israel, Germany etc).
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,663
Reactions
54 4,745
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Before heavy MBTs, we have lethal Gun Carrier Platforms with ATGMs however Greek Leo's are to be upgraded with APSs.

So Armed Forces of Türkiye need to concentrate how to defeat APS.

IMHO , Mobilized powerful EMPs is more important than MBTs.

1654072913980.png




1654072556079.png

1654072621342.png

1654072718549.png

Could Laser make blind APS or burn its antennas?
 

Attachments

  • 1654072880817.png
    1654072880817.png
    318.3 KB · Views: 113

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,235
Reactions
139 16,181
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Kinetic weapons are the real APS killers. Trophy class APS do not have an answer to sabot rounds.
155mm howitzers and 127mm naval guns can fire Hyper Velocity rounds.
This is what the answer is for APS fitted on any tank. These HPVs are precision guided and would be the ideal solution for long range (80-90km) artillery targeting tanks that are fitted with modern APS.

1654079626141.jpeg


1654079668594.png

At Mach 7+ speeds these rounds will be near impossible to stop. This is the future of artillery. That is what we need to develop.
These rounds can stop any tank and armoured vehicle and in addition can be used as an effective air defence systems from land or sea, as they can hit almost any platform in the air including ballistic missiles and jet aircrafts if incorporated in to a relevant radar system.

Hypervelocity Gun Weapon System (which comprises the HVP itself plus cannon, fire control, and radar) won’t replace high-cost, high-performance missiles, but it could provide an additional layer of defense that’s cheaper, more mobile, and much harder for an enemy to destroy.
 
Last edited:

Combat-Master

Baklava Consumer
Moderator
Messages
3,667
Reactions
15 25,474
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Akkor is capable to reduce effects of an penetrator rod, with its large blast filled with tungsten fragments capable of shattering rods and or cause a rod to veer off trajectory/ cause tumbling.

A layered APS system would be best, Akkor and Pulat combined solution. Would be a beast.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,235
Reactions
139 16,181
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Akkor is capable to reduce effects of an penetrator rod, with its large blast filled with tungsten fragments capable of shattering rods and or cause a rod to veer off trajectory/ cause tumbling.

A layered APS system would be best, Akkor and Pulat combined solution. Would be a beast.
There are rumours of Russian Afghanit being able to stop Depleted Uranium tipped Sabot rounds. But like with most Russian stuff it needs to be seen to be believed.
Trophy developers are still trying on the case of sabot defence. But they accept that it is very challenging to stop a 4-5 Mach Sabot as explained in below Janes Defence article.
An HVP round however, would be travelling at 7+Mach and would be more of a challenge to track and stop especially if it is a top attack class round .
There are trials using consecutive rounds fired at a tank , first one being a dummy and the second being the real tank killer. So as APS s become more and more capable the weapons become smarter as well.
Akkor being developed so that it is having a capability like you explain is nice to hear. May be, that is why it is still not finished and integrated in to any of our tanks.
 

Combat-Master

Baklava Consumer
Moderator
Messages
3,667
Reactions
15 25,474
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
There are rumours of Russian Afghanit being able to stop Depleted Uranium tipped Sabot rounds. But like with most Russian stuff it needs to be seen to be believed.
Trophy developers are still trying on the case of sabot defence. But they accept that it is very challenging to stop a 4-5 Mach Sabot as explained in below Janes Defence article.
An HVP round however, would be travelling at 7+Mach and would be more of a challenge to track and stop especially if it is a top attack class round .
There are trials using consecutive rounds fired at a tank , first one being a dummy and the second being the real tank killer. So as APS s become more and more capable the weapons become smarter as well.
Akkor being developed so that it is having a capability like you explain is nice to hear. May be, that is why it is still not finished and integrated in to any of our tanks.

Trophy is basically motorised claymore that's directed towards a threat, it has zero blast effect on target with the pellets losing much of it's energy to be of any effect to KE weapons.
There were some talks between Rafael and Elbit Sys on a collaboration where Trophy and Iron Fist could be further developed to work in tandem, but nothing has come of it. Iron fist was touted as being able to defeat KE threats, they have test videos on Iron Fist engaging penetrator rods.


The cycle of tank is going to be interesting to see, but - I don't think we will see any substantial changes till a major war happens.
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,663
Reactions
54 4,745
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Just relaying on kinetic penetrators, you all seem to neglect the role of man portable ATGMs.


Edit:

İmagine what would Ukraine do, if most of their Russian tanks had APS?

APSs of Greek,Israel, YS armies make our shoulder launched ATGMs useless, can you notice the big threat?

Need to have some EMP weapons even compact ones.
 
Last edited:

Tornadoss

Contributor
Messages
1,375
Reactions
4 2,619
Nation of residence
Czechia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Just relaying on kinetic penetrators, you all seem to neglect the role of man portable ATGMs.
İmagine what would Ukraine do, if most of their tanks had APS?

APSs of Greek,Israel, YS armies make our shoulder launched ATGMs useless, can you notice the big threat?

Need to have some EMP weapons even compact ones.
Was Zaslon a project that was never implemented on UA tanks?
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,473
Reactions
17 5,209
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Even if you can't stop the KE penetrator entirely, a layered APS and modern ERA combination at least could distract the trajectory of the penetrator and that alone could guarantee the survival of the Tank and it's crew.

APS is a must have for Tanks in the 21st century.
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,663
Reactions
54 4,745
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Was Zaslon a project that was never implemented on UA tanks?
İ haven't heard and seen.



Could anti-drone EMP weapons confuse an antenna array of APS?


1654103147106.png


1654103042087.png
 
Last edited:

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,061
Solutions
1
Reactions
34 14,465
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
HPV is the future. We should have 76mm and 127mm fire support vehicles and 155mm SPA with HPV capability. Mechanized companies should have 3x 76mm IFVs while mechanized battalions have 6-9x127mm this will add another layer to the armored warfare. Those guns can provide air defense as well as direct or indirect fire support with different kinds of guided and unguided munitions. This also means distributing advance capability for a very low cost which is suitable for distributed warfare doctrine.

 

MarcusZidanta

Active member
Messages
27
Reactions
1 74
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
How many Leopard 2s have been fitted with PULAT active protection system?

I know all the M60T tanks have APS now, not sure about Leo2.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom