TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Saithan]

BMC is only known for making a simple MRAP.

Otokar, FNSS and some other Turkish land vehicle companies have shown that they can innovate. They have some very smart solutions and their products are of excellent quality. You cannot compare these companies to BMC. Not only that, both Otokar and FNSS have some experience with tracked vehicles. FNSS in particular is very experienced with tracked vehicles.

It made absolutely no sense to give this to BMC. This project must be given to either FNSS or Otokar immediately.

Otokar too mate.

Also despite the favoritism shown to BMC. FNSS, Otokar, Nurol etc. are having success with foreign sales.

Otokar did make an extra attempt to save the Altay project by public announcement of readiness, and that is very unusual if you think about it.

I think the smart choice is be silent, don't say anything because if/when the politicians fuck up they'll come crawling back, You just need to help save their faces. Even if you as Otokar need to ask again, do it. Do it for Turkey.

 

[Zafer]

Only BMC can make the Turkish tank. Others don't even consider making the engine. We don't just want a tank as an end product we want an industry base that can produce tanks end to end, period.

 

[Saithan]

Only BMC can make the Turkish tank. Others don't even consider making the engine. We don't just want a tank as an end product we want an industry base that can produce tanks end to end, period.

Well we have firms that are working on an engine, why should BMC spend time on an engine too. Isn't it better to support those who've already made progress ?

Tülomsan is actively working with FNSS to achieve an engine that'll fulfill the goal of domestic engine. BMC could do the same with one of the others or even Tümolsan.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Well we have firms that are working on an engine, why should BMC spend time on an engine too. Isn't it better to support those who've already made progress ?

Tülomsan is actively working with FNSS to achieve an engine that'll fulfill the goal of domestic engine. BMC could do the same with one of the others or even Tümolsan.

Who are Tulomsan? I can not find details about a company called tulomsan. There is however a Tulomsas !

 

[Saithan]

Who are Tulomsan? I can not find details about a company called tulomsan. There is however a Tulomsas !

My bad, typo, I'm used to -san for sanayii

Forgot AS - Anonim Sirket.

 

[Anmdt]

Only BMC can make the Turkish tank. Others don't even consider making the engine. We don't just want a tank as an end product we want an industry base that can produce tanks end to end, period.

Only they can do, and how ironic they needed Tank Palet and couldn't set up a team or factory to produce it.

 

[Yasar_TR]

My bad, typo, I'm used to -san for sanayii

Forgot AS - Anonim Sirket.

When asked some time ago, Professor Mahmut Akşit, the MD of TEI said that the two addresses, to successfully produce an engine for Altay Tank are TEI and TULOMSAS.
I think that says it all.

 

[Zafer]

Only they can do, and how ironic they needed Tank Palet and couldn't set up a team or factory to produce it.

It is not that they needed the Tank Palet, it is that it would work best for the national interest as the TP is a wasteland otherwise. People can get together when the elements are ready for production.

 

[Zafer]

When asked some time ago, Professor Mahmut Akşit, the MD of TEI said that the two addresses, to successfully produce an engine for Altay Tank are TEI and TULOMSAS.
I think that says it all.

How improper for the leader of a public sector company to say that other companies can not make a thing. It is unreasonable to think he said so. Please present evidence.

 

[Saithan]

It is not that they needed the Tank Palet, it is that it would work best for the national interest as the TP is a wasteland otherwise. People can get together when the elements are ready for production.

What do you mean by wasteland ?

It was a fully functional and working place. Servicing TSK armoured vehicles and such. Even ES from BMC said so.

 

[Zafer]

What do you mean by wasteland ?

It was a fully functional and working place. Servicing TSK armoured vehicles and such. Even ES from BMC said so.

Take it for underutilized, considering less and less armored vehicles are damaged in anti-terror operations due to the usage of UAVs.

 

[Anmdt]

national interest as the TP is a wasteland otherwise

Really, please don't make statements and claims about places and factories you don't know.
Tank-Palet is one of the efficient factories which has long served Army, and owned by Army. BMC hasn't changed anything, neither upgraded the facilities nor it is work-flow.

 

[Skyfall]

Really, please don't make statements and claims about places and factories you don't know.
Tank-Palet is one of the efficient factories which has long served Army, and owned by Army. BMC hasn't changed anything, neither upgraded the facilities nor it is work-flow.

The last several pages were statements and claims that people don't know. Just bashing one company because of political reasons and no facts at all. And how do you know that BMC hasn't changed anything? Have you visited there recently?

Please guys, do we really need to turn this into a political thread like the one in PDF. Also BMC gets such a hard time but Baykar doesn't. Why is that? You would expect the same corruption from Baykar also?

 

[BordoEnes]

BMC is only known for making a simple MRAP.

Otokar, FNSS and some other Turkish land vehicle companies have shown that they can innovate. They have some very smart solutions and their products are of excellent quality. You cannot compare these companies to BMC. Not only that, both Otokar and FNSS have some experience with tracked vehicles. FNSS in particular is very experienced with tracked vehicles.

It made absolutely no sense to give this to BMC. This project must be given to either FNSS or Otokar immediately.

Mind you even that was a struggle considering the original design was based on the Israeli Hatehof MRAP with which they had a legal dispute about the property rights. Their second apc was Amazon who also was based on an Israeli design. This all the while Otokar was the first company to build and perfect APC's and MRAP's years prior. They already build, produced and offered their Kaya II and Kale MRAP's to our armed forces.

I vividely remember bitching about this for years upon years in defence.pk forum but most people scoffed it off as a political agenda. Its nice that people are realizing this blatant corruption and favoritism. BMC should have focused and remained on commercial and military uitlity vehicles, basicly the Turkish version of Russian Kamaz. Its a market where they have no competition and till this day remain the sole domestic supplier.

 

[Reviewbrah]

Mind you even that was a struggle considering the original design was based on the Israeli Hatehof MRAP with which they had a legal dispute about the property rights. Their second apc was Amazon who also was based on an Israeli design. This all the while Otokar was the first company to build and perfect APC's and MRAP's years prior. They already build, produced and offered their Kaya II and Kale MRAP's to our armed forces.

I vividely remember bitching about this for years upon years in defence.pk forum but most people scoffed it off as a political agenda. Its nice that people are realizing this blatant corruption and favoritism. BMC should have focused and remained on commercial and military uitlity vehicles, basicly the Turkish version of Russian Kamaz. Its a market where they have no competition and till this day remain the sole domestic supplier.

The price Otokar gaved for Altay was very reasonable considering they had a ready factory. BMC got the contract without a factory, and now Altay costs $16+ million considering the cost to build a new factory.

with the money saved giving contract to Otokar, we could be buying urban warfare variant of Altay and Tulpar IFV....

There was news BMC interested getting fast train contracts, they got the contract for TF-X

I've heard rumors that they were interested in shipbuilding, I am not joking

 

[Anmdt]

The last several pages were statements and claims that people don't know. Just bashing one company because of political reasons and no facts at all. And how do you know that BMC hasn't changed anything? Have you visited there recently?

Well, does senseless glorification of BMC count as politics? If not, then neither is mine.

 

[Zafer]

Well we have firms that are working on an engine, why should BMC spend time on an engine too. Isn't it better to support those who've already made progress ?

Tülomsan is actively working with FNSS to achieve an engine that'll fulfill the goal of domestic engine. BMC could do the same with one of the others or even Tümolsan.

The last time I checked Tülomsan was not even able to engineer a 300hp diesel let alone a 1500.
That is largely because Tülomsan is not a thing. The closest thing to Tülomsan can be a marriage of Tümosan and Tülomsaş. Now that would make a sense. But Tümosan has already failed once.

 

[Zafer]

Mind you even that was a struggle considering the original design was based on the Israeli Hatehof MRAP with which they had a legal dispute about the property rights. Their second apc was Amazon who also was based on an Israeli design. This all the while Otokar was the first company to build and perfect APC's and MRAP's years prior. They already build, produced and offered their Kaya II and Kale MRAP's to our armed forces.

I vividely remember bitching about this for years upon years in defence.pk forum but most people scoffed it off as a political agenda. Its nice that people are realizing this blatant corruption and favoritism. BMC should have focused and remained on commercial and military uitlity vehicles, basicly the Turkish version of Russian Kamaz. Its a market where they have no competition and till this day remain the sole domestic supplier.

Who would then go ahead and try to give Turkey a whole tank with a domestic engine; Otokar, FNSS ? Nobody else will do that.

 

[Reviewbrah]

This forum needs to do a collaborative book on magnificent life of Ethem Sancak, from selling viagra, importing Israeli armor, defending Palestine, getting tank, howitzer, tank modernization contracts without a factory to building 5th generation engines in less than 10 years.

His story should be known to everyone, from Silicon Valley to Singapore

 

[Kartal1]

The last several pages were statements and claims that people don't know. Just bashing one company because of political reasons and no facts at all. And how do you know that BMC hasn't changed anything? Have you visited there recently?

Please guys, do we really need to turn this into a political thread like the one in PDF. Also BMC gets such a hard time but Baykar doesn't. Why is that? You would expect the same corruption from Baykar also?

I can understand your motives just by looking at your comparison between Baykar and BMC. If you want to talk politics go in the politics thread. Here when you discuss this project take in account the technical spectrum of the situation.

Who would then go ahead and try to give Turkey a whole tank with a domestic engine; Otokar, FNSS ? Nobody else will do that.

Yeah we are seeing how BMC are delivering the tanks. They don't even count them outbound of the factory.

The last time I checked Tülomsan was not even able to engineer a 300hp diesel let alone a 1500.
That is largely because Tülomsan is not a thing. The closest thing to Tülomsan can be a marriage of Tümosan and Tülomsaş. Now that would make a sense. But Tümosan has already failed once.

TUMOSAN is going to deliver a 550hp engine and 100 6x6 and 8x8 are going to use TUMOSAN engines in 2021. What BMC have produced to this day in means of tracked vehicles? What have BMC produced to this day that is using a national engine? Nothing. Other than that we also see that the Kirpi II have bad reputation and even the soldiers had to abandon a couple of them on the field because of technical reasons so YPG could give us a good photo session.