TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Brave Janissary]

If we capable the make L-55 cannon in mkek with under licence we must modify Leopard 2a4's. Just because Germans and Greeks dont want 1500 hp class (thats effect the capability of armour), L-55 carrier tanks on us. Just because if we have them we can be establish a advantage againts greek leopard 2a6hel's .

If we have him with great numbers the way of modernization of leopard 2's there is no way to contiune the ban to Turkey on the field of engines. That is only lose of money.

On the other hand for a Place Of The Leopard 2a4T1 Around Modern Tanks

Leopard 2A4TR1 Tankının Modern Tanklar Arasındaki Yeri

Altay için çok üzülüyoruz ancak bu tank hiç yabana atılır bir tank değil ve bence leclerc ve challenger 2 ile eşit ve bazı yönlerden iyi b...

gerceksavunmasanayi.blogspot.com

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

Can't we convert the TS1400 to a gas turbine engine which is suitable for the Altay tank? I know they are notoriously thirsty engines (look at the Abrams tank's engine [Honeywell AGT1500]), but hey, it's our only indigenous engine which has enough power for the Altay. Plus the power to weight ratio of gas turbine engines is excellent, so we could save some weight this way.

Of course chances are we'll stick to a conventional engine. The project is already very delayed. This will just complicate things further. However it is a theoretically possible solution, just not a very practical one.

If we poured so much resources into the TS1400, and we knew that a combustion engine was no where near ready for the Altay tank, then we should've gone through this route. It could've been the engine which powered the first batch of Altays. Too late now I guess.

 

[Turko]

Can't we convert the TS1400 to a gas turbine engine which is suitable for the Altay tank? I know they are notoriously thirsty engines (look at the Abrams tank's engine [Honeywell AGT1500]), but hey, it's our only indigenous engine which has enough power for the Altay. Plus the power to weight ratio of gas turbine engines is excellent, so we could save some weight this way.

Of course chances are we'll stick to a conventional engine. The project is already very delayed. This will just complicate things further. However it is a theoretically possible solution, just not a very practical one.

If we poured so much resources into the TS1400, and we knew that a combustion engine was no where near ready for the Altay tank, then we should've gone through this route. It could've been the engine which powered the first batch of Altays. Too late now I guess.

A total of over 10,000 tanks have been equipped with GTD-1000T/1250 engines.

АО «ОДК-Климов»

klimov.ru

Russians have 3000-4000 old T-80 with turbine engine. IMO Fuel consumption should be calculated by hp. Also they are multi fuel burner flying beasts 80km/h.

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

 

[Adıvar]

Wondering if there is any penalty in the contract for delay...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060865639026438144

 

[LienNoir]

A nice read about Altay.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337719625048596480

I do believe there is a penality in the contract but they re trying to delay it even further. They will produce just enough tanks to not get it (with old spare engines).

 

[ANGMAR]

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program​

An early version of Turkey's Altay tank participates in a military parade in Ankara, Turkey, on Aug. 30, 2015. (Burhan Ozbilici/AP)​

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish procurement and military officials as well as teams from a private manufacturer have been negotiating with a South Korean company to recover a program riddled with delays for the production of the country’s first indigenous new-generation main battle tank.
“This program has faced major delays due to failed access to significant components like the engine, transmission and armor,” a procurement official told Defense News. “I am not in a position to give a date for the start of serial production. All I know is we are trying hard to get it moved ahead.”
https://www.defensenews.com/industr...th-south-korea-to-salvage-altay-tank-program/
any news about the engine and the transmitter ?

 

[Philip the Arab]

Turkey in talks with South Korea to salvage Altay tank program​

An early version of Turkey's Altay tank participates in a military parade in Ankara, Turkey, on Aug. 30, 2015. (Burhan Ozbilici/AP)​

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish procurement and military officials as well as teams from a private manufacturer have been negotiating with a South Korean company to recover a program riddled with delays for the production of the country’s first indigenous new-generation main battle tank.
“This program has faced major delays due to failed access to significant components like the engine, transmission and armor,” a procurement official told Defense News. “I am not in a position to give a date for the start of serial production. All I know is we are trying hard to get it moved ahead.”
https://www.defensenews.com/industr...th-south-korea-to-salvage-altay-tank-program/
any news about the engine and the transmitter ?

At this point I expect serial production in 2030.

 

[ANGMAR]

At this point I expect serial production in 2030.

i cant be so optimistic even the korean k2 uses a german engine !

 

[Yasar_TR]

you just jump to say price of missiles or tanks that totally wrong and based on bullshit.. come on... show me a single place where officially were told about the price of Altay or American one? now you talk about Atmaca price? stop it..

Before you become confrontational, I suggest you check some figures!
Mr Ethem Sancak has said it himself that the other competitor (KOC) gave a price of 7 billion Euros for 250 Altay tanks. As BMC their offer was for 4 billion Euros. But RTE shaved of a further 0.5 billion Euros. And the deal was finalised at 3.5 billion Euros. You do the math; with Euro/US dollar at 0.82 rate today it makes 17 million dollars per tank.

'Altay tankı ile devlete 3 milyar avroluk bir tasarruf sağladık'

İslam Bilim Tarihi Araştırmaları Vakfı Kurucu Başkanı Sancak, "Bizim aldığımız fiyat 4 milyar avroydu. Prototipi yapan şirket 7 milyar avrodan aşağı inmiyordu. İlk ihale aşamasında devlete 3 milyar avroluk bir tasarruf sağladık" dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

M1 Abrams
Manufacturer	Lima Army Tank Plant (since 1980) Detroit Arsenal Tank Plant (1982–1996)
Unit cost	US$6.21 million (M1A2 / FY99) Estimated in 2016 as US$8.92 million (with inflation adjustment)
Produced

 

[Anmdt]

Before you become confrontational, I suggest you check some figures!
Mr Ethem Sancak has said it himself that the other competitor (KOC) gave a price of 7 billion Euros for 250 Altay tanks. As BMC their offer was for 4 billion Euros. But RTE shaved of a further 0.5 billion Euros. And the deal was finalised at 3.5 billion Euros. You do the math; with Euro/US dollar at 0.82 rate today it makes 17 million dollars per tank.

'Altay tankı ile devlete 3 milyar avroluk bir tasarruf sağladık'

İslam Bilim Tarihi Araştırmaları Vakfı Kurucu Başkanı Sancak, "Bizim aldığımız fiyat 4 milyar avroydu. Prototipi yapan şirket 7 milyar avrodan aşağı inmiyordu. İlk ihale aşamasında devlete 3 milyar avroluk bir tasarruf sağladık" dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

M1 Abrams
Manufacturer	Lima Army Tank Plant (since 1980) Detroit Arsenal Tank Plant (1982–1996)
Unit cost	US$6.21 million (M1A2 / FY99) Estimated in 2016 as US$8.92 million (with inflation adjustment)
Produced

Might include spare parts, maintenance for a dedicated term.Unit cost of an asset is not same as the amount given in contracts which covers more than just delivery of the items..

 

[guest12]

Nostalgia Time

 

[chngr]

Before you become confrontational, I suggest you check some figures!
Mr Ethem Sancak has said it himself that the other competitor (KOC) gave a price of 7 billion Euros for 250 Altay tanks. As BMC their offer was for 4 billion Euros. But RTE shaved of a further 0.5 billion Euros. And the deal was finalised at 3.5 billion Euros. You do the math; with Euro/US dollar at 0.82 rate today it makes 17 million dollars per tank.

'Altay tankı ile devlete 3 milyar avroluk bir tasarruf sağladık'

İslam Bilim Tarihi Araştırmaları Vakfı Kurucu Başkanı Sancak, "Bizim aldığımız fiyat 4 milyar avroydu. Prototipi yapan şirket 7 milyar avrodan aşağı inmiyordu. İlk ihale aşamasında devlete 3 milyar avroluk bir tasarruf sağladık" dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

M1 Abrams
Manufacturer	Lima Army Tank Plant (since 1980) Detroit Arsenal Tank Plant (1982–1996)
Unit cost	US$6.21 million (M1A2 / FY99) Estimated in 2016 as US$8.92 million (with inflation adjustment)
Produced

Your source is very vey cheap

Taiwan buy $2 billion for 108 M1A2T Abrams Tanks....And does not have APS

Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States (TECRO) – M1A2T Abrams Tanks and Related Equipment and Support | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

17 million USD is not only for Altay.....Development of T3 and life cycle logistics takes a lot of money.I think the price is low for this

I think 250 Altay is not 3.5 billion euros....Maybe about 2 billion euros

 

[AzeriTank]

Your source is very vey cheap

Taiwan buy $2 billion for 108 M1A2T Abrams Tanks....And does not have APS

Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States (TECRO) – M1A2T Abrams Tanks and Related Equipment and Support | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

17 million USD is not only for Altay.....Development of T3 and life cycle logistics takes a lot of money.I think the price is low for this

I think 250 Altay is not 3.5 billion euros....Maybe about 2 billion euros


View attachment 9318

it even included developing an engine for Altay Tank... Does Yashar know how hard to develop a 1500hp engine and Renk type of transmission? even included a center to develop new technologies for tank.. and other things you mentioned above.. this way it is really cheap offer..

 

[Yasar_TR]

it even included developing an engine for Altay Tank... Does Yashar know how hard to develop a 1500hp engine and Renk type of transmission? even included a center to develop new technologies for tank.. and other things you mentioned above.. this way it is really cheap offer..

Have you got source that says the price quoted by Ethem Sancak includes engine and transmission development? As far as I know it does not!
The quote was given on the basis of buying the Tank’s engine and transmission from MTU and Renk, as at the time of the quotation there were no problems with Germany regarding Altay englne and components. Problems started to happen after our military entered Northern Syria, which was way after the date of the quote.
(The quote was given on 18th January 2016. Euphrates Shield Started on 24th August2016 and lasted 7 months. Altay engine supply line was put in danger in 2017 by Germany’s decision to stop supplying equipment that can be used in Northern Syria. And later on Germany suspended tank upgrading parts shipment on 25th January 2018)

Quote:
Altay Tankı'nın geliştirmesi işi Koç Grubu'na bağlı Otokar firmasına verilmişti. Bu firma gerekli çalışmaları yaptı, tankın protipini geliştirdi ve seri üretim için hazır hale getirdi. Seri üretime geçmek için 18 Ocak 2016'da Savunma Sanayii Müsteşarlığı'na teklifte bulunuldu.
unquote.

3.5 Milyar Dolarlık Altay tankı ihalesini Ethem Sancak kazandı

Milli ana muharebe tankı Altay ın seri üretimi ve Altay tankına motor geliştirilmesi için başlatılan projede BMC ile sözleşme görüşmelerine başlanması kararlaştırıldı.

www.patronlardunyasi.com

Turkey's ruling AKP blames Germany for delay in Altay tank production | Ahval

ahvalnews.com

 

[AzeriTank]

Have you got source that says the price quoted by Ethem Sancak includes engine and transmission development? As far as I know it does not!
The quote was given on the basis of buying the Tank’s engine and transmission from MTU and Renk, as at the time of the quotation there were no problems with Germany regarding Altay englne and components. Problems started to happen after our military entered Northern Syria, which was way after the date of the quote.
(The quote was given on 18th January 2016. Euphrates Shield Started on 24th August2016 and lasted 7 months. Altay engine supply line was put in danger in 2017 by Germany’s decision to stop supplying equipment that can be used in Northern Syria. And later on Germany suspended tank upgrading parts shipment on 25th January 2018)

Quote:
Altay Tankı'nın geliştirmesi işi Koç Grubu'na bağlı Otokar firmasına verilmişti. Bu firma gerekli çalışmaları yaptı, tankın protipini geliştirdi ve seri üretim için hazır hale getirdi. Seri üretime geçmek için 18 Ocak 2016'da Savunma Sanayii Müsteşarlığı'na teklifte bulunuldu.
unquote.

3.5 Milyar Dolarlık Altay tankı ihalesini Ethem Sancak kazandı

Milli ana muharebe tankı Altay ın seri üretimi ve Altay tankına motor geliştirilmesi için başlatılan projede BMC ile sözleşme görüşmelerine başlanması kararlaştırıldı.

www.patronlardunyasi.com

Turkey's ruling AKP blames Germany for delay in Altay tank production | Ahval

ahvalnews.com

i said based on this picture...

 

[chngr]

Most of cost not engine...But development of T3 and life cycle logistics

Especially life cycle logistics

 

[Quasar]

Can't we convert the TS1400 to a gas turbine engine which is suitable for the Altay tank? I know they are notoriously thirsty engines (look at the Abrams tank's engine [Honeywell AGT1500]), but hey, it's our only indigenous engine which has enough power for the Altay. Plus the power to weight ratio of gas turbine engines is excellent, so we could save some weight this way.

Of course chances are we'll stick to a conventional engine. The project is already very delayed. This will just complicate things further. However it is a theoretically possible solution, just not a very practical one.

If we poured so much resources into the TS1400, and we knew that a combustion engine was no where near ready for the Altay tank, then we should've gone through this route. It could've been the engine which powered the first batch of Altays. Too late now I guess.

there was an interview with SSB president Demir sure it will be not a word by word qoutatiıon but it seems that TS1400 was considered even hybrid solutions were considered for ALTAY's engine but because of concerns over high maintenance and logistic cost it was not materilized but I strongly belive that at least we have to work on a few experimental prototypes just incase.

 

[Yasar_TR]

i said based on this picture...

Let us get our facts straight!
This document is a “project development“ document issued by SSB. Turkish SSB, does not open tenders. It is the Ministery of Defence that opens tenders. Because they are the BUYERS.
SSB starts projects with companies, be it state owned or private. It is the job of Ministery of defence to open a tender for a finished project for various companies to forward their quotes.
First Altay development PROJECT was given to Otokar, by, then the equivalent of today’s SSB. They produced the first prototypes. But for the order stage a tender was opened to produce the tank by the MoD. And this tender was won by BMC with a price of 3.5 billion Euros.
So my question still stands. Do you have a source that first 3.5 billion Euro quote Ethem Sancak gave included all the work stated in above ”project” document?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Land vehicles active protection systems

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342804615021133825